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RedWingNation43

Wings Looking For Defenseman

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I mean yeah I would trade Nyquist or Tatar for Bogosian in a heartbeat too. But I doubt Cheveldayoff goes for that but who knows. The good news is Kenny is looking around...

Right, I wasn't being clear. You'd obviously need to trade more than Nyquist or Tatar, they would just be the center piece of a package for sure. I would think that Nyquist and a second would get Volchenkov, Nyquist and a first for Bogosian. I'd make either trade though. Maybe sweeten the pot with a couple of our throwaway forwards if anyone were interested (Emmerton, Mursak)...or, if Eaves turns out to be healthy and ready to go I'd consider moving Miller as well.

Whatever the package, we've got assets now, and as I've said elsewhere, considering neither Bogosian or Volchenkov are top 20 d-men in the league I think they could be had for something like what I've proposed above.

Edit: Another guy like the two I've mentioned is Robyn Regehr. Given his age and Buffalo's glut of defensemen I think he could be had as well.

As you can see from the types of guys I'm listing, what I want is a physical, shut down defender, who can play big minutes. I couldn't care less about how many points they score, and point totals are typically what make defensemen so expensive in the first place. Any of these guys could be had, Bogosian would cost the most, so I'd lean toward the other two first.

Edited by kipwinger

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Sure these guys "could" play in the NHL, but are they really good enough?

Forgive my ignorance since I don't follow the Griffins, but I haven't heard much about these 2 in particular, and I'm guessing if they were in fact good enough - they'd be regulars in Detroit, and Holland wouldn't be signing guys like Samuelsson in the off season.

Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL. Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future.

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dirtydangles" data-cid="2341401" data-time="1358558181"><p>

Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL. Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future.</p></blockquote>

Id rather see the young guns make a lot of mistakes and us get bounced in round 1 than bert and sammy suck and us get bounced in rnd 1.

F.Michael likes this

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="The Axe" data-cid="2341411" data-time="1358559497"><p>

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dirtydangles" data-cid="2341401" data-time="1358558181"><p><br />

Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL.

Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future.</p></blockquote><br />

<br />

<br />

Id rather see the young guns make a lot of mistakes and us get bounced in round 1 than bert and sammy suck and us get bounced in rnd 1.</p></blockquote>

This

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="ogreslayer" data-cid="2341424" data-time="1358560467"><p>

Think Jay Feaster would agree to that?</p></blockquote>

Seems like Kenny didn't agreed...

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dirtydangles" data-cid="2341401" data-time="1358558181"><p>

Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL. Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future.</p></blockquote>

Id rather see the young guns make a lot of mistakes and us get bounced in round 1 than bert and sammy suck and us get bounced in rnd 1.

Agreed.

Nothing against either Bert, or Sammy, but now is the time to see what these early 20 somethings have to offer in the Motor City.

T.Low likes this

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Right, I wasn't being clear. You'd obviously need to trade more than Nyquist or Tatar, they would just be the center piece of a package for sure. I would think that Nyquist and a second would get Volchenkov, Nyquist and a first for Bogosian. I'd make either trade though. Maybe sweeten the pot with a couple of our throwaway forwards if anyone were interested (Emmerton, Mursak)...or, if Eaves turns out to be healthy and ready to go I'd consider moving Miller as well.

Whatever the package, we've got assets now, and as I've said elsewhere, considering neither Bogosian or Volchenkov are top 20 d-men in the league I think they could be had for something like what I've proposed above.

Edit: Another guy like the two I've mentioned is Robyn Regehr. Given his age and Buffalo's glut of defensemen I think he could be had as well.

As you can see from the types of guys I'm listing, what I want is a physical, shut down defender, who can play big minutes. I couldn't care less about how many points they score, and point totals are typically what make defensemen so expensive in the first place. Any of these guys could be had, Bogosian would cost the most, so I'd lean toward the other two first.

I see where you are coming from. And yeah obviously Gus and Tatar for Bogosian straight up wasn't what you or I were thinking in our previous posts. Obviously some other picks and maybe players would have to be involved. Regardless I still think Bogosian doesn't get moved.

I agree with you on the care less about points and being more a shutdown d-man would be nice for us Wings. However I'll pass on Regehr as well. And being a shut down d-man is like money. It doesn't grow on trees. Regehr is alright but at age 32 I would almost take Franson over him cause in "opinion" there is more upside to Franson.

Truth of the matter is if we give up assets. Which could be roster players/picks/prospects we better be getting someone that is an established top 4 d-man and is young. Might be a pipedream but it is what it is.

Anything less should be picks and prospects if that.

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Cross off Edler now...

There was nothing that could be done.

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There was nothing that could be done.

Indeed there wasnt, but beside him none of the UFA defensemen look appealing, maybe if Whitney has a comeback year. But other then that its a lot of 35+ dmen. So only way to land anything good is for Kenny to make a trade.

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Our D is mwdiocre, but its the young offensive punch/pressure that we lack. Better offense = better defense.

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Yeah, as much as I like Sammy and wish him well, Sammy in/Nyquist out is wrong on too many levels, but even at the most basic level: Does Sammy really give us a better chance to win than Nyquist? I'd have to give an emphatic f*** no!

It's time to tell Nyquist what is expected of him, that he's got to carry some mail, and insert in the line up.



There was nothing that could be done.

Being 60 minutes south of Vancouver, I watch Edler a lot. I'm glad they took him and we ended up with Franzen. He'd do OK for the Wings, but...he's kinda vanilla. He's even more inconsistent than Mule, and more costly when he does screw up. Often looks even more lazy than Mule ever looks.

I'm ok not getting Edler.

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Yeah, as much as I like Sammy and wish him well, Sammy in/Nyquist out is wrong on too many levels, but even at the most basic level: Does Sammy really give us a better chance to win than Nyquist? I'd have to give an emphatic f*** no!

It's time to tell Nyquist what is expected of him, that he's got to carry some mail, and insert in the line up.

Samuelsson is a versatile forward that puts up over .50 point per game, which was better than Ryan Smyth, Latendresse, Hornqvist, and Derek Roy... Not to mention has chemistry with other forwards and Babcock.

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Samuelsson is a versatile forward that puts up over .50 point per game, which was better than Ryan Smyth, Latendresse, Hornqvist, and Derek Roy... Not to mention has chemistry with other forwards and Babcock.

My understanding of that was implied in the phrase "As much as I like Sammy...".

I think Nyquist can do better.

Sammy makes some clutch plays, but we all know he also too often does a bit of a deer in the headlights glaze just before he passes the puck to the wrong sweater.

My hope is that Sammy plays with a bit more of an edge than Nyquist, and that may be needed vs the Blues.

Edited by T.Low

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Bogosian would be a nice piece as he is a RH dman with great size, mobility, and youth. I think more realistically we should target a guy like gormley who is probably nhl ready but is on a team with a crowded blueline. I don't think we have the depth to trade for a current top tier dman, but we could try for a potential top tier guy in gormley. maybe even rundblad but people seem to dislike him.

Rundblad would look great in a Red and White uniform! Love that kid.

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I don't want to make it seem like panic mode. but we need to add a top 4 guy to our group. its pretty evident through 2 periods that our d isn't just under performing, its just outmatched. quincey isn't who we thought he was and smith isn't jesus on skates.

Shaman likes this

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I don't want to make it seem like panic mode. but we need to add a top 4 guy to our group. its pretty evident through 2 periods that our d isn't just under performing, its just outmatched. quincey isn't who we thought he was and smith isn't jesus on skates.

hockey-jesus.jpg

GMRwings1983 and dirtydangles like this

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There is like nothing available in free agency this offseason on D so it kinda means we have to make a deal unless we want to tank a couple seasons until our d prospects are ready...

I just hope Holland makes a meaningful deal rather than a "reclamation" project that turns up like Quincey and under performs. We need actual help.

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There is like nothing available in free agency this offseason on D so it kinda means we have to make a deal unless we want to tank a couple seasons until our d prospects are ready...

I just hope Holland makes a meaningful deal rather than a "reclamation" project that turns up like Quincey and under performs. We need actual help.

That's the thing that really worries me. Holland is so scared to make trades and hasn't been successful at making any descent signings in years. Unless some sort of dramatic paradigm shift occurs in Holland's brain, I just don't know what the hell is going to happen. I foolishly tried to optimistic about the D the last couple weeks, but the writing's all over the wall. It's beyond obvious. They won't be this bad every game, but they just do not have the guys to get the job done. They're not even close to having a solid defense right now. Not even a little bit.

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After today, we better keep looking... long and hard. Our defense was terrible tonight. Especially Quincey. and he's a guy who's actually been playing hockey during the lockout.. against weaker talent as well. So, maybe he just needs some time to adjust again to NHL talent, but hel ooked awful. Just awful.

The problem though... sure we're looking for a D-man... but we also have alot of old players up front, and weak younger players up front who arent good enough, to support trading some good looking prospects away, in order to get a D-man. its just going to be opening up one hole, to fill another temporarily.

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After today, we better keep looking... long and hard. Our defense was terrible tonight. Especially Quincey. and he's a guy who's actually been playing hockey during the lockout.. against weaker talent as well. So, maybe he just needs some time to adjust again to NHL talent, but hel ooked awful. Just awful.

The problem though... sure we're looking for a D-man... but we also have alot of old players up front, and weak younger players up front who arent good enough, to support trading some good looking prospects away, in order to get a D-man. its just going to be opening up one hole, to fill another temporarily.

What I'm concerned of is that Holland will trade for a 5/6 dman and put a bandaid on it and call it fixed. I think we have the talent up front to lose some. Jarnkrok is ready, so is Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, and even Sheahan could be called upon. The biggest hole is the D. I'd rather build our D back up and plug holes with rookies up front and lose games 6-0 for a year than keep what we have and lose in similar fashion for multiple years.

EDIT: Also there is a lot of talent at forward in UFA next year. Holland should shore up the D so potential UFA targets would be more apt to sign here rather than thinking we are on the decline. There are guys like Perry and Getz, and Zajac that could be targets if we were to trade away bigger pieces of our forwards.

Edited by dirtydangles

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I won't believe Holland is serious about improving this team until Franzen and Flip are gone. Franzen because he deserves the boot and Flip because they don't want to let him go. It'll take one or both of those guys to land someone descent on D considering Flip's in the final year of a contract.

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