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Kindl's future...

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Fair point. I just am so ready for kindl to so somethjng productive instead of looking like a lost chicken on the ice. He needs to show he belongs at the NHL level

And that's going to take consistent ice time if Babcock will give it to him. Either way, it's going to be an interesting off season given how many UFAs/RFAs the Wings will have. Kindl might not be the only one facing a make or break year when it comes to staying in the Winged Wheel.

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I completely agree, and I don't mean to sound like I think the guy should be given a spot just because he's been around a while. He needs to sink or swim, BUT I also think it's unfair to suggest (not that you did) the guy is sinking when he hasn't been given any kind of regular playing time, and when he does, he's typically utilized incorrectly. Tonight he'll be paired with a shutdown guy, he should be able to play to his strengths (the transition game), and he'll get some time on the PP. That's using his skill set properly. If they do that for 3 or 4 games and he still doesn't look good, then I'd say it's fair to cut him loose.

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I agree in principle, but I disagree that tonight should be make or break. You can't expect a guy to play well when he's up for a game, down for two or three, up one, down again. What does every hockey player in the world say when they return from a summer off, or a long injury? "It will take a while to get my timing back, and get into game shape". Timing matters a ton in hockey, and so bringing a guy in, putting him with a new partner, and then letting him sit for a few games does nothing to help improve that timing. Kindl needs to prove something this season, but I think it's only fair to give him about three games in a row to make sure that he's comfortable out there. s***, if we can give Quincey 5 games, I don't think there's any reason not to give Kindl 3.

I think it should be make or break.

This isn't Kindl's first shot at the roster. He played 55 games last season and 48 the season before that, and was a regular in the lineup for long stretches.

While I agree they should give him a crack at several games in a row, if after that he still can't hold on to even a #6 spot as a 26 year old in his third season, when will he?

EDIT: Just saw you said TONIGHT was make or break. Definitely agree he should get more than one game. This season will be make or break, not just one game.

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I completely agree, and I don't mean to sound like I think the guy should be given a spot just because he's been around a while. He needs to sink or swim, BUT I also think it's unfair to suggest (not that you did) the guy is sinking when he hasn't been given any kind of regular playing time, and when he does, he's typically utilized incorrectly. Tonight he'll be paired with a shutdown guy, he should be able to play to his strengths (the transition game), and he'll get some time on the PP. That's using his skill set properly. If they do that for 3 or 4 games and he still doesn't look good, then I'd say it's fair to cut him loose.

Definitely hear you there. Tough to give up on a guy who was your highest draft pick in a decade & still hasn't hit the age when most d-men in the league "get it" according to most experts.

In a way, what Kindl is going through is similar to Huds imo. Happy needed to be a top 6 forward to be effective, yet year after year the attitude seemed to be that he had to prove his worth on the bottom 6. To say that didn't fit his wheelhouse would be an understatement. Round peg meet square hole.

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He will most likely be traded by the deadline, especially if he doesn't prove he can hold even a #6 spot, with guys like Lashoff, Smith, Huskins, and even Quincey outplaying him (not so sure about Quincey :P) he won't be needed, let him get some ice time somewhere else and stop torturing him here

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He will most likely be traded by the deadline, especially if he doesn't prove he can hold even a #6 spot, with guys like Lashoff, Smith, Huskins, and even Quincey outplaying him (not so sure about Quincey :P) he won't be needed, let him get some ice time somewhere else and stop torturing him here

:g:

Maybe the Flyers would take him. They did wonders with Leino.

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“He’s a skilled guy on the back. He’s got to move the puck, he’s got to shoot the puck,''

I recall that when he played in Kitchener, he played with an "edge". Somewhere between then and now (whether it be his decision or someone else's) he's lost that part of his game.

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I'm actually excited they're giving Kindl a chance to really prove himself. Hope he steps up as a puck mover. To me it always just looked like someone needed to light a fire under his butt

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:g:

Maybe the Flyers would take him. They did wonders with Leino.

Whatever happened to the Tollefsen guy we traded Leino for? I know there wasn't any place to put him when the trade took place, but seems like someone could have used him for depth. Was he that bad?

Edited by kipwinger

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Whatever happened to the Tollefsen guy we traded Leino for? I know there wasn't any place to put him when the trade took place, but seems like someone could have used him for depth. Was he that bad?

Didn't he decide to head back to Europe?

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Didn't he decide to head back to Europe?

He did. It's my understanding that the Wings took Tollefson as a way to keep the Flyers under the roster limit in order to pull off the deal. Never really had any plans for him from what I remember.

Edit: And if I remember correctly, didn't he have a bunch of knee & concussion problems that season too?

Edited by ogreslayer

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Whatever happened to the Tollefsen guy we traded Leino for? I know there wasn't any place to put him when the trade took place, but seems like someone could have used him for depth. Was he that bad?

A Euro who drops the gloves? Holland was appalled at the idea.

esteef likes this

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:ranting: Kindl Should have never been drafted, I have hated it from day 1.... Quincey was a waste of a solid 1st round draft pick and should have been let alone to sign somewhere else as an RFA, and we should have claimed whatever draft picks we would have received.... Kindl should be dealt either in a package or just for a pick, sames goes for Quincey. These are two transactions that I seriously question what the hell Holland was thinking. Lashoff and Huskins are playing way too solid to let Kindl come in, and Quincey is just taking up space until White gets back...of course Ericsson is just as enept as Quincey... IMO, Big E, Quincey and Kindl should all hit the dusty trail once our D is healed. I just wish Holland would pull his head out of his ass!

on a side note, I know arm-chair GM's are a dime a dozen, and if we really could do the job, we'd have the job, blah blah, but just because a lot of us don't have the credentials to land a NHL GM job, doesn't mean you or I don't know how to judge NHL talent. If I had gone to College for whatever I had to in order to land a GM job, I guarantee I couldn't do too much worse than a few guys already in that job....and I don't even own a copy of NHL13 or 12 or 11 or 10, etc.....never owned one...I believe a good 25% (at least) of this forum alone are a better judge of NHL talent than Ken Holland or his scouts...and that is a serious statement....

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I think it's been a long time since Kindl looked really bad, but he's also not really a guy that has done much to impress.

There may be potential in him though and I absolutely think giving him a good, long look right now is the right thing. Lashoff has been good but let's not go overboard, it's not like he's that invaluable to our team that we can't afford even one game without him.

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:ranting: Kindl Should have never been drafted, I have hated it from day 1.... Quincey was a waste of a solid 1st round draft pick and should have been let alone to sign somewhere else as an RFA, and we should have claimed whatever draft picks we would have received.... Kindl should be dealt either in a package or just for a pick, sames goes for Quincey. These are two transactions that I seriously question what the hell Holland was thinking. Lashoff and Huskins are playing way too solid to let Kindl come in, and Quincey is just taking up space until White gets back...of course Ericsson is just as enept as Quincey... IMO, Big E, Quincey and Kindl should all hit the dusty trail once our D is healed. I just wish Holland would pull his head out of his ass!

on a side note, I know arm-chair GM's are a dime a dozen, and if we really could do the job, we'd have the job, blah blah, but just because a lot of us don't have the credentials to land a NHL GM job, doesn't mean you or I don't know how to judge NHL talent. If I had gone to College for whatever I had to in order to land a GM job, I guarantee I couldn't do too much worse than a few guys already in that job....and I don't even own a copy of NHL13 or 12 or 11 or 10, etc.....never owned one...I believe a good 25% (at least) of this forum alone are a better judge of NHL talent than Ken Holland or his scouts...and that is a serious statement....

You seriously question what Holland was thinking huh? That's funny, because in the thread "Kyle Quincey traded to Detroit in 3 team trade" on 21, Feb. 2012 at 5:13 you said, and I quote, "I may be in the minority here, but I think this is a nice deal. Kyle is a

big upgrade over Kindl, he is much better (maybe not tougher) than Commodore, he will be a nice addition here. Welcome back Kyle!"

For anyone interested that post can be found on page 54 of this forum.

Not only did you know what he was thinking, but according to your own words it was a good move, and as an armchair GM you would have likely done the same thing.

Enough with your castigating these moves already please.

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You seriously question what Holland was thinking huh? That's funny, because in the thread "Kyle Quincey traded to Detroit in 3 team trade" on 21, Feb. 2012 at 5:13 you said, and I quote, "I may be in the minority here, but I think this is a nice deal. Kyle is a

big upgrade over Kindl, he is much better (maybe not tougher) than Commodore, he will be a nice addition here. Welcome back Kyle!"

For anyone interested that post can be found on page 54 of this forum.

Not only did you know what he was thinking, but according to your own words it was a good move, and as an armchair GM you would have likely done the same thing.

Enough with your castigating these moves already please.

I questioned the RE-SIGNING of Quincey...not the trade back then. Back then the trade seemed fine since he was a pretty good young defenseman, but when he took a dump here, he became more valuable to let go and receive a couple of picks in return.... If you read the post you above, I said Quincey should have never be RE-SIGNED and Kindl never drafted... Get yer head out of your ass and wipe your eyes...

and even you can admit that Q has turned out to be a waste of a 1st round pick. So if anyone is interested, and I doubt they are, find a quote of mine where I EVER supported the Quincey re-signing, especially at $3.75M. I may have said, ok, whatever when they signed him, but I never liked it nor will I ever. I was willing to give him a chance sure, but he is playing worse than he did last season when he came over...if he had re-signed at less than $3M....I still wouldn't like it, but I could swallow it better...him and E are the worst defenders making $3M or more...and Kindl will never crack the top 6. I knew that day 1, day ONE...if you want to go back to a 2005 draft thread I am sure you will find how muchI voiced my displeasure...

edit: Oh, and enough with your trying to pretend you are happy with this team. If you are happy with this team, I seriously question your judge of talent...

Edited by LeftWinger

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There isn't a reason Quincey shouldn't work out. He's played very well elsewhere. You aren't just going to let go the defenseman you spent a 1st round pick on after like 30 games. Especially when you're a team in need of defenseman.

Now obviously the move hasn't worked out, but it's still early in Quincey's career, wing's have invested too much, and need him to play to his potential.

Edited by Carman

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I questioned the RE-SIGNING of Quincey...not the trade back then. Back then the trade seemed fine since he was a pretty good young defenseman, but when he took a dump here, he became more valuable to let go and receive a couple of picks in return.... If you read the post you above, I said Quincey should have never be RE-SIGNED and Kindl never drafted... Get yer head out of your ass and wipe your eyes...

Your premise is flawed. Quincey had a few days to receive offers from others teams (he didn't get any, AFAIK), then he filed for arbitration.

The options were either sign him or let him go for nothing. Or trade, but that option is still there.

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Your premise is flawed. Quincey had a few days to receive offers from others teams (he didn't get any, AFAIK), then he filed for arbitration.

The options were either sign him or let him go for nothing. Or trade, but that option is still there.

That is fine. I was just trying to say I was questioning the re-signing of Q. I understand it was a business deal and since Holland did blow a 1st on him, I am sure he is going to give him every chance in the world to become that player...and you are probably right, he probably didn't get many if any offers from other teams...I think arbitration is BS, it just forces the teams hand into siging you are cutting you. Buy, hey, I guess that is why they are Restricted and not Unrestricted...

There isn't a reason Quincey shouldn't work out. He's played very well elsewhere. You aren't just going to let go the defenseman you spent a 1st round pick on after like 30 games. Especially when you're a team in need of defenseman.

Now obviously the move hasn't worked out, but it's still early in Quincey's career, wing's have invested too much, and need him to play to his potential.

I do agree with the business aspect. Both he and Big E were given big money (for their level of play) and Holland is going to give them every chance....I just don't agree with the re-signings to begin with....

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I questioned the RE-SIGNING of Quincey...not the trade back then. Back then the trade seemed fine since he was a pretty good young defenseman, but when he took a dump here, he became more valuable to let go and receive a couple of picks in return.... If you read the post you above, I said Quincey should have never be RE-SIGNED and Kindl never drafted... Get yer head out of your ass and wipe your eyes...

and even you can admit that Q has turned out to be a waste of a 1st round pick. So if anyone is interested, and I doubt they are, find a quote of mine where I EVER supported the Quincey re-signing, especially at $3.75M. I may have said, ok, whatever when they signed him, but I never liked it nor will I ever. I was willing to give him a chance sure, but he is playing worse than he did last season when he came over...if he had re-signed at less than $3M....I still wouldn't like it, but I could swallow it better...him and E are the worst defenders making $3M or more...and Kindl will never crack the top 6. I knew that day 1, day ONE...if you want to go back to a 2005 draft thread I am sure you will find how muchI voiced my displeasure...

edit: Oh, and enough with your trying to pretend you are happy with this team. If you are happy with this team, I seriously question your judge of talent...

You said Quincey should never have been re-signed huh?

From the thread "[signed] Red Wings re-sign Quincey: 2 years, 7.55 million total" on page 22.

"Blah...a little more than I would have liked, but whatever...if he

becomes one of our top 4, I guess the $250,000 overpayment will be

alright...At least we have 6 D now, wonder who the 7th will be, or are

we to expect a REAL top 4 defender and have Kindl be #7" - Leftwinger.

"A little more than I would have liked, but whatever...I guess the $250,000 overpayment will be alright". Meanwhile, 6 months later "I said he should have never been re-signed!"

No you didn't say that, and the proof is in the pudding.

Edited by kipwinger
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You said Quincey should never have been re-signed huh?

From the thread "[signed] Red Wings re-sign Quincey: 2 years, 7.55 million total" on page 22.

"Blah...a little more than I would have liked, but whatever...if he

becomes one of our top 4, I guess the $250,000 overpayment will be

alright...At least we have 6 D now, wonder who the 7th will be, or are

we to expect a REAL top 4 defender and have Kindl be #7" - Leftwinger.

"A little more than I like, but whatever, not a big deal". Meanwhile, 6 months later "I said he NEVER EVER should have been re-signed...EVER!"

Ok, and I said just a few minutes ago that when he re-signed, I may have been like, whatever and actaully that is what it looks like I said. I also said if he becomes one of our top 4 if will ok, but NEVER did I say "Oh boy I like this signing! Go Kyle Go!..." Just because I said, blah, whatever, if he works out then fine, doesn't mean I like the signing nor does it mean I think he should have been signed and if you look before the actual signing I was dead set against signing him, unless is was on the cheap... I think I may have said $3.5 at the VERY most only because Holland is Holland... keep digging, you'll never find a post where I wasever happy or jumping up and down about Quincey or Kindl....

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Ok, and I said just a few minutes ago that when he re-signed, I may have been like, whatever and actaully that is what it looks like I said. I also said if he becomes one of our top 4 if will ok, but NEVER did I say "Oh boy I like this signing! Go Kyle Go!..." Just because I said, blah, whatever, if he works out then fine, doesn't mean I like the signing nor does it mean I think he should have been signed and if you look before the actual signing I was dead set against signing him, unless is was on the cheap... I think I may have said $3.5 at the VERY most only because Holland is Holland... keep digging, you'll never find a post where I wasever happy or jumping up and down about Quincey or Kindl....

How interesting, you can say that you're ok with something and then six months later say that you've been against it all along. Neat trick. Does that work on people usually or no?

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