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Guest esmeralda575

Mr Holland.....

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

It's just now hitting me we gave a 1st away for Quincy. Had to let that sink in for over a year.

Last year's draft sucked, so it ain't that big of a deal.

Would have been way better with Dekeyser, Brunner and a drafted player.

Dekeyser wasn't ready until late in the season, and there's no way to tell if that drafted player would have amounted to anything even within the next several years.

Yours is conjecture, and most likely incorrect conjecture. If Holland hadn't picked up Quincey, you'd probably now be talking about how he did nothing to replace Stuart. I guess there's no pleasing some people.

Lets not forget to mention, Hossa is the best defensive elite winger in the league. Franzen is.... yeah, Franzen.

Untrue, else he'd not have been passed over for the Selke every single season of his career.

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Untrue, else he'd not have been passed over for the Selke every single season of his career.

Give me the list of wingers that get nominated for the Selke recently. It's mostly a center only trophy now.

Hossa is one of, if not the best defensive winger in the game. I really don't see how that can be argued, and citing lack of Selke nominations for Winger really means absolutely nothing. Watch the games.

Edited by Carman

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Give me the list of wingers that get nominated for the Selke recently. It's mostly a center only trophy now.

Hossa is one of, if not the best defensive winger in the game. I really don't see how that can be argued, and citing lack of Selke nominations for Winger really means absolutely nothing. Watch the games.

"It's a center-only trophy" is an empty argument. If any wingers were good enough to win the award, they'd win it. As things stand, Selke winners tend to be centers because those centers happen to be the best defensive forwards in the game. When people talk about the Selke, they speak of the likes of Datsyuk, Kesler, Toews, Richards, as so on. Hossa isn't mentioned, because he's not as good on defense as they are.

I've watched plenty of games that Hossa has played in. He is an excellent backchecker and he's hard on the puck when others have it, but those are only two aspects of defense.

Edited by Crymson

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"It's a center-only trophy" is an empty argument. If any wingers were good enough to win the award, they'd win it. As things stand, Selke winners tend to be centers because those centers happen to be the best defensive forwards in the game. When people talk about the Selke, they speak of the likes of Datsyuk, Kesler, Toews, Richards, as so on. Hossa isn't mentioned, because he's not as good on defense as they are.

I've watched plenty of games that Hossa has played in. He is an excellent backchecker and he's hard on the puck when others have it, but those are only two aspects of defense.

Can you name some Wingers that are better defensively than him? We aren't comparing Hossa with Datsyuk and other Selke winners, we're comparing Hossa to Franzen. And it's not even close to who is a better two-way player. Hossa is an awesome player and his effect on the game isn't limited to his production. Which is why he would be worth the higher contract. That's all I'm trying to say.

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C'mon guys lets be fair. Yes, the loss today was extremely painful but what do you expect if you put a bunch of relatively young players on your blueline ? That they are playing like Lids, Stuart and Raf ? They are making mistakes, because they are young, thats just the price you have to pay. In the very article that is cited here, Holland also said that the team is in transition. And thats how they played. Get used to it the next two to three years till its ironed out. Switching to panicmode now and demanding overpriced trades is absolutely useless.

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I think even with a scoring winger, we could still miss the playoffs. There's a chance that pick could be first overall.

Gaborik might be worth that small risk, depending on what else we had to give up. I don't see why the Rangers would be particularly desperate to move him, so I assume it'd be quite a bit more.

I can't think of anyone else rumored to be available that would be worth if. Maybe Vanek if we didn't have to give up any top prospects.

I hear you, but given that we've been solidly in a playoff position for about two months I'm banking on us making it, and as such not getting the shot at the first pick. But you're right, there's no guarantee.

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The Wings should trade for Ryan Clowe. Trade and sign, no rental bs. Clowe will greatly help the Wings now, and when the Wings move to the East. The move to the east could make trading Clowe more digestable to the Sharks.

In my mind, the major problem the Wings have is the number of people on the roster.

The Wings currently have 16 forwards, 9 defenseman, and two goalies. Just think, instead of spending 3 million each on two players, you replace that with one better player who makes 6 million. The latter a much better scenero since we have an abundance of NHL players. Why do we need so many players. Holland is wasting over 10 million dollars of the cap, on players who aren't even playing. And even when they are playing, they aren't useful.

Imagine if Quincey, Sammy, White weren't here. All three are expendable, and combined, are wasting 10 million in cap space. That space could easily be used on a top 3 forward, and an upgrade on defense.

Holland should clear house at the deadline. It's obvious he isn't going to make a big move. If he would trade all the extra players, who are useless on or off the ice, then he could at least accumulate a bunch of picks. Those picks could either be used in a trade now, or in the off season. Clear house Kenny. We don't need all these extra players. Losing these players also wouldn't hurt our mediocre play-off push.

Edited by TheOwl

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Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Honestly, what do you expect him to say? This team isn't good enough? The players aren't good enough? You just don't know what's being offered and what's not. He's not going to say I'm definitely making a trade if one doesn't materialize that makes sense short and long term. It's so easy to say "Make a trade!", but it's silly to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it isn't. I just love how everyone thinks that being a GM is so easy. Only on the internet.

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lets all stop talking about the past, it is over. Discussing further is a waste of time. The only real question is, what do we do between now and Wednesday? I like our D, so all take of picking up more D seems to be misguided. Unless we are picking up a true #1 that is RHed. We need Forwards that can score, plain and simple. But we are not going to get a 40+ goal scorer. Just isn't out there. So we will need to take some risks. Find those guys that have already shown than can score 20+ goals in their past, that are also signed, and under 30 years of age. There are several guys like that available.

In another thread I mentioned several. 2 of which Kulimein of Tor and Stafford of Buf come to mind. van wants to move louango, Tor wants him, and vac wants a 2nd line C. Tor doesn't want to move Bozak. This sound like a perfect Filppula move to me. Fil to Van, Louango to Tor, and recent 30 goal scorer Kulimein to us. Now is that so hard? Make that move.

Then move Nyquist for Stafford. That gives us 2 former 30 goal scorers, both of which are signed for at least 1 more year, both under 30 (27 each), both are 6-2/215ish. Both are good 2 way players. The only cost is a future 2 way playmaking passing C. Simple and stright forward deals that should help us right now, and for the next couple of years.

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Guest esmeralda575   
Guest esmeralda575

Ugly is an understatement," Babcock said. "Preparation and work ethic are two things you need to be successful in any walk of life, and we weren't prepared and we didn't compete at a high enough level. Any way you look at it, they capitalized on our poor effort. Did I see it coming? No. Is there any excuse for it? No. It's flat-out not acceptable."

So Mr. Babcock,

What do we have to do? or what are you going to do? The last 5 years this team haven't done anything. :shout:

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Guest Playmaker   
Guest Playmaker

lets all stop talking about the past, it is over. Discussing further is a waste of time. The only real question is, what do we do between now and Wednesday? I like our D, so all take of picking up more D seems to be misguided. Unless we are picking up a true #1 that is RHed. We need Forwards that can score, plain and simple. But we are not going to get a 40+ goal scorer. Just isn't out there. So we will need to take some risks. Find those guys that have already shown than can score 20+ goals in their past, that are also signed, and under 30 years of age. There are several guys like that available.

In another thread I mentioned several. 2 of which Kulimein of Tor and Stafford of Buf come to mind. van wants to move louango, Tor wants him, and vac wants a 2nd line C. Tor doesn't want to move Bozak. This sound like a perfect Filppula move to me. Fil to Van, Louango to Tor, and recent 30 goal scorer Kulimein to us. Now is that so hard? Make that move.

Then move Nyquist for Stafford. That gives us 2 former 30 goal scorers, both of which are signed for at least 1 more year, both under 30 (27 each), both are 6-2/215ish. Both are good 2 way players. The only cost is a future 2 way playmaking passing C. Simple and stright forward deals that should help us right now, and for the next couple of years.

I don't know that I totally agree with it, but I do appreciate the logical thinking with actual moves that make sense. Filppula's total lack of production this year may prevent a decent return, but the idea is sound.

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And the problem with trading is to find someone who will. In the West some teams won't trade with us because we still may meet them in the playoffs while some teams in the east won't trade with us because we will face them next season in our new division. And even if they will the price would be significantly higher than usual. It is the worst time to trade for the Red Wings, it will get better when the season is over. Stick with the tools we have and make some moves during the offseason, in which the new CBA will also help us.

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Last year's draft sucked, so it ain't that big of a deal.

Dekeyser wasn't ready until late in the season, and there's no way to tell if that drafted player would have amounted to anything even within the next several years.

Yours is conjecture, and most likely incorrect conjecture. If Holland hadn't picked up Quincey, you'd probably now be talking about how he did nothing to replace Stuart. I guess there's no pleasing some people.

Untrue, else he'd not have been passed over for the Selke every single season of his career.

Right because I complain all the time on the forums. I wouldn't have said anything. Keep the first rounder and draft a player, Quicey hasn't changed a thing on this Wings roster this year. We had him, then traded to get him back ? Pretty ridiculous.

If you think Hossa isn't the best defensive winger in the game, even though it has been mentioned by hockey players that have far greater knowledge than you and me both (including Datsyuk complimenting how great his defensive game is) then i'm betting you don't watch much games.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

The Wings should trade for Ryan Clowe. Trade and sign, no rental bs. Clowe will greatly help the Wings now, and when the Wings move to the East. The move to the east could make trading Clowe more digestable to the Sharks.

Are you keeping track of his season thus far? He has been horrific. He has zero goals, a feat matched on the Sharks only by a grinder who has a whopping seven goals in his three seasons with the Sharks. Clowe has been ineffective, slow, and lacking in intensity. He is this season's Scott Gomez. No thanks.

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Not even if there's a "Kyle Quincey type" available?

Kyle Quincey type deals only come around once every 100 years or so. You don't stop to think about it, you give up your first and say 'Jack F***ing POT!'

100 out of 30 GMs agree, Kyle Quincey is Bobby Orr without all that scoring to get in his way, and Nick Lidstrom if he wasn't a puss.

Edited by Shaman464

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I would venture a 'guess' that the LGW board was 70-30 for us keeping Franzen over Hossa. All the folks justifying it cuz of Hossas one armed playoff collapse.

Big deal , Kenny mAy redo that one if given the chance but lets move forward.

Hey, Hossa was great in game 3's in that playoff run!

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Guest irishock   
Guest irishock

Except in the Finals.

Datsyuk and Homer weren't much better as well.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Hey, Hossa was great in game 3's in that playoff run!

It was game 4s. Two against Columbus, two against Anaheim, two against Chicago.

And that was the entirety of his scoring.

Datsyuk and Homer weren't much better as well.

Datsyuk was playing with a badly injured foot, and Holmstrom had major groin problems.

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It was game 4s. Two against Columbus, two against Anaheim, two against Chicago.

And that was the entirety of his scoring.

Datsyuk was playing with a badly injured foot, and Holmstrom had major groin problems.

And hossa was playing with a bum shoulder that required surgery. But that's not important because it doesn't fit your argument.

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