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BleedRed&White25

nhl.com calls Kenny the best GM

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DeKeyser was practically wearing a Wings jersey to Toronto to be pawed at by the other suitors. The kid wanted to be a Wing from the start, all Kenny had to do was not screw it up. It's not like Kenny could've been outbid for him by other GMs due to the entry level contract because you know he probably would have been. I'm glad we got DK but he basically jumped into Kenny's lap.

esteef

I have thought that about every player. I will give Kenny credit for his good signings. Because I'm sure going to blame him when we lose a guy like Hossa to a division rival.

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kinda a reputation pick there. I think Holland has slipped a bit in past years. He has made a few boneheaded decisions recently like Sammy, Cola, Gus, Quincey (trade) signings. There have been a few opportunities to improve the team that fell though as well. He is definitely a top 5 GM but im not sure if he is the best atm.

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Overrated.....Clap, Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap. Overrated.....Clap, Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap.

Ok. Actually, I'm kidding but I do think its much easier to be a great GM when you have a big wallet and no salary cap (or a robust one). HOWEVER, this ever decreasing salary cap has not only given other teams a chance at the Cup but players no longer feel like they have to go to Detroit to win one. It's not all Kenny's fault but he needs to get busy in the offseason!

Go Wings!

Edited by gowings00

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You have to consider his forsight to not make any reactional signings or trades. Teams like NY, Philly, and even Pittsburgh this year went "all in" to try to win The Cup. If none of them do, then it was a failed season by their expectations (Philly fell flat early). This season without a doubt is a rebuilding year. However, look at where we currently are in the standings. We are 8th in the WC and 15th in the league. To me, it's incredible that we are rebuilding and are still competing for a playoff spot.

In our worst season in a long time, we can still see hope and potential that we can be a serious contender within the next few years. We are only a top 6 player or two away from that. We lost the best defensemen ever to play, along with Brad Stuart and our defense hasn't struggled nearly as much as everyone expected. We have competed and almost beat the best team in the Western Conference twice this season, all while injury riddled.

The losses of Helm and Bert (not so much Sammy) have really caused us to force guys who don't belong in the top 6 to step up and play top 6 minutes. Holland could have made a move to land a guy like Iginla or Bouwmester, but why would he at the expense of our future? Holland is as level-headed as a GM can be. He realized right after the last lockout that teams now need to build through the draft and not through free agency.

Look at all of the teams who have won Stanley Cups in the past years and there is a trand that their superstars are drafted, while their role players are picked up through trade or free agency.

06 Hurricanes - Eric Staal

07 Ducks - Perry, Ryan, Getzlaf, McDonald

08 Wings - Datsyuk, Zetty, Filp, Franzen, Lidstrom, Kronwall

09 Pens - Crosby, Malkin, Fleury

10 Blackhawks - Toews, Kane, Staal, Keith, Brouwer

11 Bruins - Lucic, Krejci, Berjeron, Marchand, Seguin

12 Kings - Quick, Kopitar, Brown, Doughty

For the most part, since the 04-05 lockout, all of the teams who have won Stanley Cups have built their core through drafting while adding one or two other pivotal players through other means. Ken Holland was the first person to say that this is the new trend after that year. He didn't trade any draft picks this season in order to gain a rental player. He is a very smart man and I don't think that any of us on the internet could do a better job than him.

edit: grammar

Edited by JoeBuddy
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I'm hoping that this season has opened Holland's eyes a bit. I don't think the Wings can afford to keep prospects in the minors forever and sign old former Red Wing free agents to fill the gap. Because of the cap, you have to give jobs to younger, cheaper players. We no longer have the luxury of paying future hall of famers several million to play on the third line or sit in the press box to fill in for an injury. Not saying play a guy full time at 18, but by 21 or so, these guys need to be given a chance to play and not continue to rot in Grand Rapids.

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I'm hoping that this season has opened Holland's eyes a bit. I don't think the Wings can afford to keep prospects in the minors forever and sign old former Red Wing free agents to fill the gap. Because of the cap, you have to give jobs to younger, cheaper players. We no longer have the luxury of paying future hall of famers several million to play on the third line or sit in the press box to fill in for an injury. Not saying play a guy full time at 18, but by 21 or so, these guys need to be given a chance to play and not continue to rot in Grand Rapids.

I think the Kindl's of the world would agree with your last sentence. Some guys need the challenge of the big leagues in order to excel. I also feel Nyquist should have been with the big boys all year.

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Have you seen the list of players we've lost to retirement and free agency the last 3 years? Lidstrom, Rafalski, Osgood, Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby have all hung up the skates. That's 22 stanley cup rings by my count, including one all time great and a couple of borderline HOFers. 3 of our "Big 5", plus our starting goaltender from the Stanley Cup year have gone. Throw in the loss of Hudler and Stuart. Did I miss anyone?

And yet we're still in a playoff spot, whilst rebuilding our pipeline to its highest level in 20 years.

Right. That's kind of my point. We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL. The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone. We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time. Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

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Right. That's kind of my point. We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL. The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone. We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time. Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

Second round exit in 2010

Second round exit in 2011

First round exit in 2012

I doubt we'll get out of the first round this year, providing we even make the playoffs. This team has gotten worse over the years. The people he has brought in have been either injured or are a waste of time.

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Right. That's kind of my point. We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL. The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone. We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time. Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

To be fair, how many teams have been in the playoffs consistently and have made it to the second or third round every single year. No team does that.

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To be fair, how many teams have been in the playoffs consistently and have made it to the second or third round every single year. No team does that.

I understand and you're right, consistently making the playoffs like the Wings have is great. Holland's career as a whole has been pretty good. What I'm wondering is, why is there are article ranking Holland as the best GM in the league when he has done very little in the past three years while the team's performance has been declining. I get that we're "rebuilding" and going with younger players, but does that mean he's doing a good job by doing nothing?

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I think it was referenced earlier that some GMs over react when the team loses early in the playoffs or doesn't make the playoffs or goes for a radical rebuild. Think about it, we only have one player left from the 2002 Stanley Cup winning team. So they team has been totally overhauled in 10 years. We only have about a half dozen players left from the 2008 Cup team. So to say nothing has changed wouldn't really be accurate. Most has been through natural attrition with the retirement of older players, but there has been a great deal of change. No Holland hasn't made all the right moves. Neither did Scotty Bowman (Uwe Krupp anyone?) But staying level headed and keeping with a plan to stay consistent when all the pressure is on to make a "big move" (and your job is on the line) can't be an easy thing to do, I would imagine.

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Right. That's kind of my point. We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL. The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone. We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time. Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

But who is available to replace those guys? There are very, very few quality FAs available these days. How do you replace a guy like Lidstrom? There is NO_ONE, not a single player, in the NHL right now who is as good as Lidstrom was. Chara and Weber are as good as it gets, neither is in the "all-time, all-NHL" bracket like Lidstrom is, neither will hit Free Agency, and if they were available for trade, the cost would be crippling.

I do agree we are in decline - I've been saying it for several years - but even in a transitional year, we are still in a playoff spot.

A bit of perspective. Our big rivals from the free-spending years. Colorado - what happened to them after Roy, Foote, Sakic, Forsberg et al retired? They've sucked ever since. What about Dallas after Modano, Belfour, Zubov etc went? They've sucked. What happened to us after we lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Larionov, Hull, Robitaille etc? Ken Holland went out and built another Stanley Cup roster. And now most of that roster has retired or left and he's rebuilding the team again. How many GMs out there have sucessfully rebuilt Cup winning rosters? Lou Lamoriello, and uh, I think thats about it.

DeKeyser was practically wearing a Wings jersey to Toronto to be pawed at by the other suitors. The kid wanted to be a Wing from the start, all Kenny had to do was not screw it up. It's not like Kenny could've been outbid for him by other GMs due to the entry level contract because you know he probably would have been. I'm glad we got DK but he basically jumped into Kenny's lap.

As I've said before, if he gets the blame for Suter's wife and Parise being from Minnesota, he sure as hell gets the credit for DelKaiser being from Michigan

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But who is available to replace those guys? There are very, very few quality FAs available these days. How do you replace a guy like Lidstrom? There is NO_ONE, not a single player, in the NHL right now who is as good as Lidstrom was. Chara and Weber are as good as it gets, neither is in the "all-time, all-NHL" bracket like Lidstrom is, neither will hit Free Agency, and if they were available for trade, the cost would be crippling.

I do agree we are in decline - I've been saying it for several years - but even in a transitional year, we are still in a playoff spot.

A bit of perspective. Our big rivals from the free-spending years. Colorado - what happened to them after Roy, Foote, Sakic, Forsberg et al retired? They've sucked ever since. What about Dallas after Modano, Belfour, Zubov etc went? They've sucked. What happened to us after we lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Larionov, Hull, Robitaille etc? Ken Holland went out and built another Stanley Cup roster. And now most of that roster has retired or left and he's rebuilding the team again. How many GMs out there have sucessfully rebuilt Cup winning rosters? Lou Lamoriello, and uh, I think thats about it.

As I've said before, if he gets the blame for Suter's wife and Parise being from Minnesota, he sure as hell gets the credit for DelKaiser being from Michigan

A good GM makes the moves that are hard to get done. Not the cupcakes.

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Second round exit in 2010

Second round exit in 2011

First round exit in 2012

I doubt we'll get out of the first round this year, providing we even make the playoffs. This team has gotten worse over the years. The people he has brought in have been either injured or are a waste of time.

Brunner, Dekeyser and Tootoo have not been a waste of time, just because he makes a few mistakes does not mean you need focus all your attention on them. Would you rather he sell the farm to get a couple rentals?

all these "big name" teams right now will not win the cup, maybe one will, but think about how many of them will be losing pieces next year, Vancouver, Chicago, NYR, Minnesota, Montreal, Pittsburgh, San Jose,and especially Philly desperately need to lose 2-6 million in cap space next season, all these big trades and signings only help them this year and maybe next, but these teams trade away a bunch of picks, and prospects to get all these players the LGW gm's say we should have gotten and they won't be nearly as good next year, whereas we will have some cap space, and won't have the issue of desperately trying to get under the cap, if you ask me, Kenny was smart to not be taken like a fool for a rental or two. And no we didn't need Bouwmeester, and Dekeyser is looking great

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A good GM makes the moves that are hard to get done. Not the cupcakes.

I don't generally like what you post, but this one is spot on.

I think being a GM is far more difficult than what we see, some posters are saying that few moves = bad GM, but I have to disagree. Holland's bad move was signing Franzen as long as he did, that and Zetterberg's extended contract put us in a position where we can't sign others (Parise, Suter types) for long-term which is something a lot of the big-name players have been interested in lately. But in dealing with what he's been left with, I think he's done well.

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I don't generally like what you post, but this one is spot on.

I think being a GM is far more difficult than what we see, some posters are saying that few moves = bad GM, but I have to disagree. Holland's bad move was signing Franzen as long as he did, that and Zetterberg's extended contract put us in a position where we can't sign others (Parise, Suter types) for long-term which is something a lot of the big-name players have been interested in lately. But in dealing with what he's been left with, I think he's done well.

I think Holland's focus is the issue. He doesn't seem to recognize what type of forwards are dominant in the NHL.

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A bit of perspective. Our big rivals from the free-spending years. Colorado - what happened to them after Roy, Foote, Sakic, Forsberg et al retired? They've sucked ever since. What about Dallas after Modano, Belfour, Zubov etc went? They've sucked. What happened to us after we lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Larionov, Hull, Robitaille etc? Ken Holland went out and built another Stanley Cup roster. And now most of that roster has retired or left and he's rebuilding the team again. How many GMs out there have sucessfully rebuilt Cup winning rosters? Lou Lamoriello, and uh, I think thats about it.

This is all it took for me to read to know that Ken Holland is the best GM in the NHL. You are 100% correct. I'm sure it wasn't easy to fire Dave Lewis after he had been with us throughout the dynasty years. He hired a great coach (despite what some of LGW things) in Babs and has put this team in a position to win. He has no control over how well our goaltending is in the playoffs, or if we score goals or not. He puts the players that are capable of helping us win on the roster. It is up to them to play well. Kenny is the best GM in the league and I wouldn't prefer anyone over him.

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NHL.com also said that Kronwall was a Norris favorite. So take whatever they say with a pound of salt.

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It would seem a lot of people forget that the Wings lost Hudler to free agency.. He scored 25 goals last season! That's 25 goals the Wings are dearly missing: Sammy's barely played and Brunner is basically a rookie, so it can't be expected of him to light it up consistently...

Also, Bert and Helm's injuries have completely destroyed the balance that would have helped the Wings's 2 first lines play together on a regular basis..

Finally, it needs to be said that Suter and Parise didn't pick Minnesota over Detroit.. They just went where they were offered more money. I would have hated to see the Wings jeopardize their economic future by giving 13M to those 2....

I'm tired of people bringing up Suter to bash Holland. Suter was going with Parise, and Parise wanted to go home. Reports said Surer actually wanted to come here, but Parise picking Minnesota tied his hands, because they wanted to play together.

So Holland did everything he could. It wasn't because he didn't offer enough, its because Suter had locked himself into playing with Parise.

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Second round exit in 2010

Second round exit in 2011

First round exit in 2012

I doubt we'll get out of the first round this year, providing we even make the playoffs. This team has gotten worse over the years. The people he has brought in have been either injured or are a waste of time.

The fact that they are going through a major rebuild and still making the playoffs every year says something about Kenny and the management staff.

The Oilers are going through a major rebuild as well:

Last place in 2010

Last place in 2011

29th place in 2012

Would you rather go through that?

Also, last summer our D looked like it would be the worst in the league, but then Kenny managed to sign some guys who have really helped us out, and he showed off his draft skills again. (Colaiacovo has been really solid in the games he's played and dekeyser looks good as well. Kindl and lashoff have both proved to be surprisingly good draft picks)

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The fact that they are going through a major rebuild and still making the playoffs every year says something about Kenny and the management staff.

The Oilers are going through a major rebuild as well:

Last place in 2010

Last place in 2011

29th place in 2012

Would you rather go through that?

Also, last summer our D looked like it would be the worst in the league, but then Kenny managed to sign some guys who have really helped us out, and he showed off his draft skills again. (Colaiacovo has been really solid in the games he's played and dekeyser looks good as well. Kindl and lashoff have both proved to be surprisingly good draft picks)

The Oil is looking good, tho.

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Kenny is enjoying the last year of the good old boy network, earned through two decades of more good choices than bad and a few exceptionally great choices.

Soon it will end & they will begin to autopsy the decline of a great team. They will point out bad breaks & bad deals. Wventually the team will be above average again & that GM will begin to reap the rewards associated with success; until success leaves. It's the same in every city & every & most every industry.

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I think Holland's focus is the issue. He doesn't seem to recognize what type of forwards are dominant in the NHL.

I think he recognized this pretty good in 2008.

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