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BleedRed&White25

nhl.com calls Kenny the best GM

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So he needs to rebuild the farm for the first time in 20 years AND spend assets on the present? And it's entirely his fault when there aren't many good free agents---an effect of the CBA---and when extra considerations spur the two of note to another team? And he must do all of this is a system that constantly works against consistent success?

The guy isn't perfect, but you're arguing that his performance needs to reside in the realm of the miraculous. You should consider lowering your expectations.

Typical. But but but everyone's against him! But but there's no good players! Poor Kenny Holland! There were players available, Kenny's just too cheap and too in love with his players to make a move and tarnish that reputation that the talking heads on tv keep bringing up from years past. Kenny's record as a whole looks good, but the last 3-4 years, no so much.

esteef

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The argument "Ken Holland doesn't suck because there are GMs who suck more" doesn't work. ...

Actually, if the question is "Who is the best GM in the league?", it does. Even if you think he does suck, if all the other GMs suck more then Holland is still the best.

Holland has done great things for the Red Wings there is no doubting that. But he has also failed to land a sniper for the last three seasons. Hossa should have been signed. The Red Wings have a fairly deep prospect pool and I am sure a couple of those guys could have been moved to land a player that can put the puck in the net. Holland at times could be better but I am sure that you could say that about 29 other GM's

Hossa hasn't hit 30g since he left. In the 4 years he's been with Chicago, he's scored a grand total of 17 more goals than Franzen. Combined with the playoffs, just 13 more. 3-4 more goals a season wouldn't solve anything. The difference is not what it's made out to be.

We do have enough prospects that we could afford to move a couple, but it's not that simple. There's two sides to a trade. There has to be another team that has something we want and likes what we have to offer more than they like any other offers they get.

Beyond that, which prospects do you move? We have a lot, but most still need to prove they can play in the NHL. Not all of them will. Of all our prospects, if even half of them become regular NHL players it will be a success. We could trade away a couple and see them turn out to be the "good ones" of the bunch, while we get a guy who probably doesn't make much difference now and even less in the future. Add some high-priced sniper and we have to let Flip go (or even include him in the trade), Pav and Hank will still be aging, and we'd have fewer prospects and thus a lower chance of one of them being able to step in and contribute.

I'm not saying a trade would be terrible, or couldn't work out. Just that you can't assume that a trade is always available and that it will work out the way you hope.

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Since 2010 here are the players Holland has signed, re-signed, or traded:

Traded Ville Leino for Ole-Kristian Tollefsen

Traded C Kris Newbury to the N.Y. Rangers for LW Jordan Owens.

Signed D Brendan Smith to a three-year contract.

Signed D Nicklas Lidstrom to a one-year contract.
Agreed to terms with F Tomas Holmstrom on a two-year contract.
Re-signed F Patrick Eaves to a one-year contract.
Re-signed F Drew Miller to a one-year contract.
Re-signed D Derek Meech to a one-year contract.
Agreed to terms with F Mike Modano on a one-year contract.
Re-signed F Darren Helm to a two-year contract.
Agreed to terms with F Justin Abdelkader on a two-year contract.
Signed F Kirk Maltby to a one-year contract.
Re-Signed G Jimmy Howard to a two-year contract.
Agreed to terms with D Jonathan Ericsson
Signed D Mike Commodore
Agreed to terms with G Joey MacDonald on a two-year contract.
Signed G Ty Conklin to a one-year contract.
Re-signed G Jordan Pearce to a two-year contract.
Signed F Fabian Brunnstrom to a one-year contract.
Signed G Petr Mrazek to a three-year entry-level contract.
Agreed to terms with D Niklas Kronwall on a seven-year contract.
Re-signed F Todd Bertuzzi.
Traded D Mike Commodore to Tampa Bay for a conditional 2013 seventh-round draft pick.
Signed D Xavier Ouellet and D Ryan Sproul to three-year, entry-level contracts.
Signed C Riley Sheahan to a three-year contract.
Signed F Teemu Pulkkinen to a three-year entry-level contract.
Traded 1st round pick for Kyle Quincey.
Signed F Martin Frk to a three-year, entry-level contract.
Signed F Tomas Jurco to a three-year, entry-level contract.
Agreed to terms with G Jonas Gustavsson on a two-year contract
Signed Jordin Tootoo to a three year contact
Signed Mikael Samuelsson to a 3 year contract
Signed Damien Brunner to a one year contact

Signed Carlo Colaiacovo

Signed Kent Huskins

So he's really good at signing players that were already wearing the Winged Wheel. That's something. But these other signings. Entry level contracts, low risk gambles, and bad trades shouldn't put him above other GMs in this league. Its not hard to look at this list and understand why the team is finishing lower and lower and is now in danger of missing the playoffs.

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...

So he's really good at signing players that were already wearing the Winged Wheel. That's something. But these other signings. Entry level contracts, low risk gambles, and bad trades shouldn't put him above other GMs in this league. Its not hard to look at this list and understand why the team is finishing lower and lower and is now in danger of missing the playoffs.

What puts him above other GMs is the 14 straight years 7th or higher in points, 9th or higher in the standings. 10 of those years (Including 9 straight) 3rd overall or better. None of Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Boston have managed to finish top-3 even two years in a row, and that's with their best players still improving.

That we have struggled to replace some top players and valuable role-players while more of our best players are in decline shouldn't drop him below other GMs. This decline (or even worse) is what should've been expected. Avoiding it would have been remarkable. More than that even, since we already retooled the team twice without any real drop-off. Three times in a row without a glitch would have been near miraculous. Instead, that's what most of you expect.

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The new system had nothing to do with Shero constructing his team in fact Ray Shero had little to do with constructing that team, being terrible for a long period of time constructed that team for him. He took over a team that had selected in the top 5, 5 years in a row, with 4 of them being in the top 2. The biggest adversity he's had to face was a problem of his own making when he had to trade Staal away because he couldn't fit all his top 5 picks under the salary cap. Let's see him rebuild the team when those players start retiring, and have him do so without the luxury of having any top 15 draft picks and without missing the playoffs. Maybe then he can start being compared to Holland.

Also if Holland doesn't get any credit for the teams draft choices because he employs a scout who recommends which players to pick, then no team's GM should ever get credit for a draft choice. They all employ scouts.

Below is a list of players drafted while Holland was in charge of amateur scouting. If I follow your logic Holland should get credit for the cups in 97, 98 and 2002 since he drafted the core of those teams. He also made several trades in those years that provided key parts to those cup winning teams.

Yves Racine

Sheldon Kennedy

Mike Sillinger

Nicklas Lidstrom

Sergei Fedorov

Dallas Drake

Vladimir Konstantinov

Keith Primeau

Slava Kozlov

Jason York

Martin Lapointe

Jamie Pushor

Chris Osgood

Mike Knuble

Darren McCarty

Dan McGillis

Anders Eriksson

Mathieu Dandenault

Tomas Holmstrom

Holland is the best GM in the history of the franchise, arguably the best in the history of the NHL, and a guaranteed first ballot Hall of Fame Inductee.

No. Look at the list of North American names on that list. They are the players taken in the first 3 rounds. They are also players Holland personally saw before the Wings drafted them. It's not hard to hit an NHLer with the first three rounds, and Jesus, during his tenure as head of scouting, our 1st-3rd round drafts were spotty. Curtis Bowen, Kory Kocur, Jesse Wallin ring a bell? Throw in the fact that guys like Sillinger, Pushor, etc were high round picks.....whew, glad we had Kenny at the helm for those picks.

Players in the 5th round on are players he (usually) didn't see play and were found by Hakan Andersson. Hakan Andersson has made Holland look really good for a really long time.

What, again, has Ken Holland done SINCE the implementation of the salary cap? He held together a Hakan Andersson found team for a while, then slowly let it crumble away. The biggest move he's made post-lockout #1? Bertuzzi? (I distinctly remember Marian Hossa's agent was the one who called Holland in 2008, and pitched the one-year deal). Beyond that, it's been a recurring cycle of re-acquiring players who didn't work the first time (Hello, Todd Gill.....Mikael Samuelsson.....Kyle Quincey......Jason Williams.....Ty Conklin.....Joey MacDonald.....)

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No. Look at the list of North American names on that list. They are the players taken in the first 3 rounds. They are also players Holland personally saw before the Wings drafted them. It's not hard to hit an NHLer with the first three rounds, and Jesus, during his tenure as head of scouting, our 1st-3rd round drafts were spotty. Curtis Bowen, Kory Kocur, Jesse Wallin ring a bell? Throw in the fact that guys like Sillinger, Pushor, etc were high round picks.....whew, glad we had Kenny at the helm for those picks.

Players in the 5th round on are players he (usually) didn't see play and were found by Hakan Andersson. Hakan Andersson has made Holland look really good for a really long time.

What, again, has Ken Holland done SINCE the implementation of the salary cap? He held together a Hakan Andersson found team for a while, then slowly let it crumble away. The biggest move he's made post-lockout #1? Bertuzzi? (I distinctly remember Marian Hossa's agent was the one who called Holland in 2008, and pitched the one-year deal). Beyond that, it's been a recurring cycle of re-acquiring players who didn't work the first time (Hello, Todd Gill.....Mikael Samuelsson.....Kyle Quincey......Jason Williams.....Ty Conklin.....Joey MacDonald.....)

Can't say I saw much of all those players but can you please tell me how players like Sammy and Conklin didn't work the first time around? Because one wasn't a top 6, 70 point scorer and one wasn't a stand-on-his-head starter who stole every game? Sammy was clutch, scored good points on a line with great chemistry, and at a snip. Conklin was a backup who helped us to a second consecutive Stanley Cup final. I think they worked first time out. Quincey is a moot point considering he was a prospect when we lost him. You can't really say he didn't work out first time around either.

Brunner, Dekeyser and Tootoo have not been a waste of time, just because he makes a few mistakes does not mean you need focus all your attention on them. Would you rather he sell the farm to get a couple rentals?

all these "big name" teams right now will not win the cup, maybe one will, but think about how many of them will be losing pieces next year, Vancouver, Chicago, NYR, Minnesota, Montreal, Pittsburgh, San Jose,and especially Philly desperately need to lose 2-6 million in cap space next season, all these big trades and signings only help them this year and maybe next, but these teams trade away a bunch of picks, and prospects to get all these players the LGW gm's say we should have gotten and they won't be nearly as good next year, whereas we will have some cap space, and won't have the issue of desperately trying to get under the cap, if you ask me, Kenny was smart to not be taken like a fool for a rental or two. And no we didn't need Bouwmeester, and Dekeyser is looking great

Is it just me, or is this statement the most obvious/pretty redundant statement there is? :P In jest of course, but I'd like your crystal ball which says not all the big teams will win it, but maybe one will. Lol I think 4 teams will win the cup this year! Hehe again I jest.

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Can't say I saw much of all those players but can you please tell me how players like Sammy and Conklin didn't work the first time around? Because one wasn't a top 6, 70 point scorer and one wasn't a stand-on-his-head starter who stole every game? Sammy was clutch, scored good points on a line with great chemistry, and at a snip. Conklin was a backup who helped us to a second consecutive Stanley Cup final. I think they worked first time out. Quincey is a moot point considering he was a prospect when we lost him. You can't really say he didn't work out first time around either.

Is it just me, or is this statement the most obvious/pretty redundant statement there is? :P In jest of course, but I'd like your crystal ball which says not all the big teams will win it, but maybe one will. Lol I think 4 teams will win the cup this year! Hehe again I jest.

Out of all those big name teams, a few should make the finals. Maybe not all of them, but I'd say at least 2.

Ha

Kenny needs to pull off some good moves this summer. He can save his hide if he can get Flip for 3.5, Ryan for 7 mil, and Horton for 5 mil.

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So who would be the best?

There isn't a GM in the league that has faced the kind of losses we have and done any better at staying competetive. Most haven't been around long enough to try rebuilding on the fly and/or never even built a team successful enough in the first place.

The thing is, we were less and less competitive before all of our major losses. We had two early exits from the playoffs before Rafalski retired and three before losing Stuart and Lidstrom. They were already trending downward before the losses and they're continuing that trajectory in the wake of said absences.

In one sense I suppose you're right, we're close to making the playoffs so we are competitive to an extent, but on the other hand I have a hard time feeling like we're all that competitive when we're competing with Dallas and Columbus for a playoffs spot and we're barely above .500.

I'm not trying to be contradictory or anything, obviously no other GM has Ken Holland's resume, but to say he's currently the best GM in hockey is sort of a nod to his cumulative career and not because of anything he's done recently...which, of course, is nothing.

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The thing is, we were less and less competitive before all of our major losses. We had two early exits from the playoffs before Rafalski retired and three before losing Stuart and Lidstrom. They were already trending downward before the losses and they're continuing that trajectory in the wake of said absences.

In one sense I suppose you're right, we're close to making the playoffs so we are competitive to an extent, but on the other hand I have a hard time feeling like we're all that competitive when we're competing with Dallas and Columbus for a playoffs spot and we're barely above .500.

I'm not trying to be contradictory or anything, obviously no other GM has Ken Holland's resume, but to say he's currently the best GM in hockey is sort of a nod to his cumulative career and not because of anything he's done recently...which, of course, is nothing.

And in that same time, we lost Hudler (for a year) and Sammy, and more importantly Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski, and Lidstrom all in decline. (Most notably Hank's goal production.) Plus losing a handful of role-players. Most everyone else stayed around the same level.

And while we may have been less competetive, there were points in each of the last three years when we were either at or near the top of the league or at least playing like one of the best teams in the league for an extended period.

Again, the decline should be expected. It's been a fairly slow decline, and will probably continue for a few more years. Avoiding it should be considered remarkable, not the expectation.

Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Boston have combined for 1 series win in 7 tries since they won their Cups. Wings have 5 in 9. 2 in 5 if you take out '09. All of them still have almost all their key players, and almost all of them have been improving. Prior to this year, none of them have been notably better than us in the regular season.

By the same standard you use for Holland, they have all declined just as much, only much quicker and with far less reason. That they have rebounded so quickly should be tempered by the notion that they probably shouldn't have dropped as quickly (or at all) in the first place. Maybe that points to something they did wrong in originally building their teams, or something Kenny did right.

Maybe when judging a GM, you need to look at the big picture rather than just the recent headlines. Maybe you need to have some realistic expectations rather than basing your criticisms on suppositions and hypotheticals.

A realistic rebuild is probably 4 years to go from bad to contender. Maybe a few more years to tweak from there. We have not yet been "bad". How long you should stay a contender is debatable. I'd say anything over a decade is probably more than you should expect. There shouldn't be any expectation of rebuilding a contender into another contender without ever hitting "bad", since it almost never happens. We have a chance to do it (again). Maybe, probably even, it won't work. But I don't mind a few mediocre seasons while we try.

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What, again, has Ken Holland done SINCE the implementation of the salary cap? He held together a Hakan Andersson found team for a while, then slowly let it crumble away. The biggest move he's made post-lockout #1? Bertuzzi? (I distinctly remember Marian Hossa's agent was the one who called Holland in 2008, and pitched the one-year deal). Beyond that, it's been a recurring cycle of re-acquiring players who didn't work the first time (Hello, Todd Gill.....Mikael Samuelsson.....Kyle Quincey......Jason Williams.....Ty Conklin.....Joey MacDonald.....)

Brian Rafalski, Brad Stuart and Danny Markov all say hi :bye1: As does Dallas Drake, who coincidentally is one of those re-acquired players you complain about, but also ironically considered by some on this board to have been the second coming of Jesus and the single most important player on the '08 Cup roster. Even more ironically, some of the people who claimed that are also the ones most critical of Holland in this thread :innocent:

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The Drake re-acquisition worked. Danny Markov? Really? That one "glorious" season made you nostalgic?

Brad Stuart, yes, I'll give credit there---good pickup, good price. But he is also an example of how Holland craps the bed. Stuart left this past summer, and what did Ken do? ......crickets......Carlo Colaiacovo?

Brian Rafalski......that's a whole 'nother topic.

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I dont think there is any way you can call Kenny "the best" just by looking at the group he signed this year. He has done well in the past but in the last few years I would not say he has. The team is in danger of falling into rebuilding mode hard if Dats, Howard and Z were not here. I don't consider that a great GM.

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The Drake re-acquisition worked. Danny Markov? Really? That one "glorious" season made you nostalgic?

Brad Stuart, yes, I'll give credit there---good pickup, good price. But he is also an example of how Holland craps the bed. Stuart left this past summer, and what did Ken do? ......crickets......Carlo Colaiacovo?

Brian Rafalski......that's a whole 'nother topic.

I see you've completely ignored my informational piece about Shero.

The Drake re-acquisition worked. Danny Markov? Really? That one "glorious" season made you nostalgic?

Brad Stuart, yes, I'll give credit there---good pickup, good price. But he is also an example of how Holland craps the bed. Stuart left this past summer, and what did Ken do? ......crickets......Carlo Colaiacovo?

Brian Rafalski......that's a whole 'nother topic.

I see you've completely ignored my informational piece about Shero.

I dont think there is any way you can call Kenny "the best" just by looking at the group he signed this year. He has done well in the past but in the last few years I would not say he has. The team is in danger of falling into rebuilding mode hard if Dats, Howard and Z were not here. I don't consider that a great GM.

You might as well say that any team would be in danger of falling into rebuilding mode if its three best players would suddenly disappear. And guess what: the team is in rebuilding mode. And we're lucky that it's being done on the fly rather than through sliding into the doghouse as has been the case with almost every single other team over the past decade.

As for last offseason: exactly who was there available besides Suter and Parise, whose decision to play with Minnesota was out of anyone's control, and a Semin whom nobody but Carolina was willing to give a chance to?

The thing is, we were less and less competitive before all of our major losses. We had two early exits from the playoffs before Rafalski retired and three before losing Stuart and Lidstrom. They were already trending downward before the losses and they're continuing that trajectory in the wake of said absences.

Ah, only a Red Wings fan could be sore about the 19th and 20th straight appearances in the playoffs, which came on the heels of a trip to the conference finals, a Cup, and another trip to the finals, be exits in the second round. Never mind that the second one of those was, to that point, the closest series in NHL history. Nothing's good enough for you, is it? Believe it or not, no GM in the league beats that.

In one sense I suppose you're right, we're close to making the playoffs so we are competitive to an extent, but on the other hand I have a hard time feeling like we're all that competitive when we're competing with Dallas and Columbus for a playoffs spot and we're barely above .500.

How many times must it be said that the team is currently rebuilding from within? How many times must it be noted that this team has been ravaged with more injuries than any other in the league?

I'm not trying to be contradictory or anything, obviously no other GM has Ken Holland's resume, but to say he's currently the best GM in hockey is sort of a nod to his cumulative career and not because of anything he's done recently...which, of course, is nothing.

Believe it or not, not every GM can provide constant success. Go ahead and measure his resume against anyone's over the past six years, even. Who gets more points? The Sharks? Your expectations seem to be a bit high. This is apparently not unusual for Red Wings fans. Frankly it makes me sad that the team's long-term success has made many of its fans unable to be appreciative of anything but the ultimate success. Your style of thought on Holland seems to be that if he's not delivering constant deep runs into the playoffs, he's a failure. This is a wildly unrealistic viewpoint.

Edited by Crymson

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Believe it or not, not every GM can provide constant success. Go ahead and measure his resume against anyone's over the past six years, even. Who gets more points? The Sharks? Your expectations seem to be a bit high. This is apparently not unusual for Red Wings fans. Frankly it makes me sad that the team's long-term success has made many of its fans unable to be appreciative of anything but the ultimate success. Your style of thought on Holland seems to be that if he's not delivering constant deep runs into the playoffs, he's a failure. This is a wildly unrealistic viewpoint.

You never go broke making a profit. It's good to have high expectations, it's bad when you don't appreciate how good you have it even if it doesn't reach your expectations. If we start missing the playoffs, and start getting #1-5 overall picks, then these are performances that should be taken to action. There is nothing wrong with being where we are. What's a problem is if we replace Holland with someone that will most likely be worse.

You have to compare Holland to his competition, and when you do you realize there really isn't anyone at there that much better. Especially that would be available. Critique his moves, I didn't like him going after Quincey, I didn't like him not finding a way to keep Hossa, but even though I disagreed with those, there are 100's of other choices that he's made that ended up helping this team.

This really reminds me of baseball managers, they have to make a ton of decisions, and no one gives credit if it's the right call, but if someone blows a save it's the end of the world. And forget about blaming players for not performing, it's much easier to point at the guy off the field that put him in that position.

Edited by Carman

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This team's strength used to be its scoring depth. Not any more. I would say that reflects on the GM.

Edited by AtomicPunk

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This team's strength used to be its scoring depth. Not any more. I would say that reflects on the GM.

Exactly. This is why I'm giving Holland another year to prove me wrong. The goalie and D have shored up, and I will credit Holland 100% for that. But if we spent all our cap dollars to lose by 1 goal every night in low scoring games, I will come down on Holland after a while. I can take a few seasons of that, bug its really frustrating to watch a playoff style game every regular season game.

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The Drake re-acquisition worked. Danny Markov? Really? That one "glorious" season made you nostalgic?

Brad Stuart, yes, I'll give credit there---good pickup, good price. But he is also an example of how Holland craps the bed. Stuart left this past summer, and what did Ken do? ......crickets......Carlo Colaiacovo?

Brian Rafalski......that's a whole 'nother topic.

Where did I say Markov had a glorious season, and I was nostalgic for it? You said "The biggest move he's made post-lockout #1? Bertuzzi?" and off the top of my head I was able to come up with 3 names without trying. Markov was what he was - a big hitting defensive defenceman who pretty much everyone wanted to keep, but who chose to go back to Russia. Nothing we could do about that.

BTW, he acquired Quincey to cover for Stuart leaving. You may not like how Quincey has played since then or the price, but he did something in advance to replace him.

And why does Rafalski not count? Was he not a success here?

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Can't say I saw much of all those players but can you please tell me how players like Sammy and Conklin didn't work the first time around? Because one wasn't a top 6, 70 point scorer and one wasn't a stand-on-his-head starter who stole every game? Sammy was clutch, scored good points on a line with great chemistry, and at a snip. Conklin was a backup who helped us to a second consecutive Stanley Cup final. I think they worked first time out. Quincey is a moot point considering he was a prospect when we lost him. You can't really say he didn't work out first time around either.

Is it just me, or is this statement the most obvious/pretty redundant statement there is? :P In jest of course, but I'd like your crystal ball which says not all the big teams will win it, but maybe one will. Lol I think 4 teams will win the cup this year! Hehe again I jest.

lmao, yes my wording was a bit off... but the point is valid, all the teams that made big trades and don't win the cup will regret it when they have to shed cap this offseaspn

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This team's strength used to be its scoring depth. Not any more. I would say that reflects on the GM.

Depth really isn't the problem, considering two of our depth scorers have missed most of the season, and even Helm can generate some offense. The bigger issue is that our top goal scorers aren't top goal scorers. Zetterberg, Franzen, and Flip should have around 10 more goals than they do. A healthy Bert, Helm, and Sammy probably adds another 10. That would put us up near 3 gpg even without any big snipers.

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It WOULD, but it ISN"T. A good GM fills holes. When he realized Bert, Helm, Sammy, Cola, etc. were pretty much out for the season, and everyone else is having a bad year, you add some scoring to make up for what you're missing or jump start existing scorers. He has not done that. Period.

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It WOULD, but it ISN"T. A good GM fills holes. When he realized Bert, Helm, Sammy, Cola, etc. were pretty much out for the season, and everyone else is having a bad year, you add some scoring to make up for what you're missing or jump start existing scorers. He has not done that. Period.

In the new salary cap era, Kenny doesn't have room to just buy goal scorers at 10 million a season. They made plays for Suter and Parise, but both those guys went to Minnesota. So they got plugs this season and they have to build through the draft, which is going to take time. I bet they make a play for a elite player next season, but who knows how that is going to go.

Wings fans who have been spoiled over the last 20+ years of success are in for a rude awakening. The best thing we can do now is to support our team the way it is. Its going to get worse as time goes on thats for sure. Dats and Zetterberg are in decline, and no elite players are in the wings right now to take over for their production. Prepare for a rebuild and it won't be without pain.

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He's gotta do better than just choose from free agents. Pry somebody loose that he wants. Like the Brent Burns trade. Holland...:"Hey, I didn't know he was available!" Brendan Morrow didn't cost 10 million dollars. Make a mid-season trade. Do something unexpected when your team shows signs of failure.

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In the new salary cap era, Kenny doesn't have room to just buy goal scorers at 10 million a season. They made plays for Suter and Parise, but both those guys went to Minnesota. So they got plugs this season and they have to build through the draft, which is going to take time. I bet they make a play for a elite player next season, but who knows how that is going to go.

Wings fans who have been spoiled over the last 20+ years of success are in for a rude awakening. The best thing we can do now is to support our team the way it is. Its going to get worse as time goes on thats for sure. Dats and Zetterberg are in decline, and no elite players are in the wings right now to take over for their production. Prepare for a rebuild and it won't be without pain.

This is the bogus argument that upsets me.

Tootoo = 1.5

Sammy = 3

Colo = 2

Gustavsson = 1.5

Bertuzzi = 1.5

Huskins = .5

There's 10 mil right there. Don't tell me we don't have the money or room. We just spend it unwisely. Mind you, this is hindsight for most people. But a good GM, and certainly the proclaimed BEST GM, should have been able to predict that the 35 plus guys and historically fragile guys might not provide a worthwhile ROI.

That being said, the lockout can work to Hollands advantage. If he dumps the garbage, then we will have a chance to jump to light speed just like the imperial fleet.

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He's gotta do better than just choose from free agents. Pry somebody loose that he wants. Like the Brent Burns trade. Holland...:"Hey, I didn't know he was available!" Brendan Morrow didn't cost 10 million dollars. Make a mid-season trade. Do something unexpected when your team shows signs of failure.

San Jose had to give up a very good second line player on a great contract(setoguchi), their best prospect at the time(Coyle), and a first round pick. We would have given up Filpulla, Smith/Nyquist, and a first for Brent Burns, or maybe even more considering Filpulla's contract isn't as valuable as Setoguchi's. Personally I'm glad we passed on Burns, and tried our luck going after Suter. That's just one example, but other than Burns there hasn't been that many #1, or #2 defenseman traded the past few seasons, especially ones that would fit with Kronwall's style.

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