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Wings_Dynasty

Coaching Error

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When you have a goalie playing his a$$ off in the middle of a winning streak you don't start a cold goalie. You wait for the hot goalie to lose. I thought this was known. I don't care if it's Sawchuk, Brodeur, or Hasek sitting on the bench.

Gus was winning and Jimmy was cold. What's the worse that could happen? They get embarrassed by the Yotes for the 2nd time in a row? Well, mission accomplished.

esteef likes this

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Sort of the same idea wih Tootoo/Samuelsson.

Tootoo's given us some real good shifts, a lot of energy. We swap him out for a sixty-year-old - because, zomg, our second power play unit will crumble without him! - and we all play like it's our fifteenth game in seven days, i.e. like a team of sixty-year-olds. And we only get one power play.

I really like Babs - but I do think he's a bit overrated. People act like he can do absolutely no wrong. Here he had something already done the right way - a winning team - and he had to go and change it. I can understand putting Smith in, but beyond that, we did beat the Avs with Gusty in net and Sammy in the press box. And, I mean, if you're gonna mess with a winning formula, why not put Nyquist and Tatar in?

Yes, I'm really ticked off about the loss. Granted, it was mostly on the players (who mostly sucked), but still.

Edited by Dabura

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Yes, as it was obviously because of Howards performance that the Wings lost last night. Oh wait......

You don't risk it. He wasn't horrible, but he wasn't good either. Gus has been outstanding at points during his streak. Good enough to be in the top five in the league in save percentage.

Give me one reason why Howard should play over a hot goalie. One legit reason. You can't. "He needs to get back into form?" No. When you're winning you ride the streak. "He's our starter and he should play if able?" No. Starters start because they have a better chance at winning than the backup. But when the backup is NOT LOSING you play the backup. Look at VAN, BOS, and PIT as a historical model, they don't care who is in net as long as they win. Fans complain and cry about loyalty but they keep winning with their backups in net and their starters watching. Thomas/Rask, Vokoun/Fleury, Schneider/Luongo. Interchangeable and competitive.

Why automatically go with Jimmy over Gus? If you know Howard is ready, let him backup the hot goalie. It will give Gus a boost of confidence that Babs trusts him, and he certainly needs it after last season.

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[sarcasm] I can not believe this team is not going undefeated GRRRRRRRRR [/sarcasm]

Seriously, it is one game against the Coyotes, after just beating arguably the best team in this infant season.

Bab's overrated?????? It is hard to be overrated when you are in fact one of, if not, the best coach in the sport.

All coaches make decisions that work or don't and judging them purely in hindsight is great for you reactionary, knee jerk, arm chair quarterback post, but in real life, it was one game of 82. Monster has not proven he can take the reigns over, Jimmy has proven he is the netminder of the future, you put him back in because if you don't how else does he go from cold to warm to hot?

Much like a call to the Bullpen in baseball, when the player fails to perform it was a bad coaching decision, the player performs and it is his success, not the coach.

Oh we beat the Avs with Monster in net and Sammy in the box, lets play the entire rest of the season that way, I mean hey it worked for one game why not all of them, amiright!

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"He's our starter and he should play if able?" No. Starters start because they have a better chance at winning than the backup. But when the backup is NOT LOSING you play the backup. Look at VAN, BOS, and PIT as a historical model, they don't care who is in net as long as they win. Fans complain and cry about loyalty but they keep winning with their backups in net and their starters watching. Thomas/Rask, Vokoun/Fleury, Schneider/Luongo. Interchangeable and competitive.

Let me answer your question first, because he is your #1 and your starter, you get him out there and back into game shape ASAP!

But the bolded part was all I needed to read in order to ignore the rest. (edit, bolding your quote didn't work so I only left the part that I was responding too)

Vokoun/Fluery really?

Luongo/Schneider Double Really?

Seeing as the Vokoun-Fluery tandem was out of necessity because Fluery is horrible sub par, and the other two teams you mentioned that "keep winning with their backups in net and their starters watching" no longer have the backups you mentioned, and Vancouver barely played Luongo last year and the B's tandem one was on a personal hiatus, while they kept winning.

Come on during the B's Cup, Thomas was the reason the B's won, the tandem had very little to do with it, as Rask was not ready to be the man. And when he did play more games his stats suffered, and he was predicted to take over for Thomas, Monster will not be anyone's replacement as he will be lucky to be a career backup.

And what happened this past season when the two finals clubs both had a definitive starting and back up goalie with no tandem. And the B's were one of them.

It was game #9, this is not game 69 where the Wings are fighting for a playoff spot.

This entire thread is knee jerk reactionary to a loss in game 9 of an 82 game season.

Monster doesn't just have history of getting injured, he is and injury waiting to happen, he is injured more often the Dipietro.

You do not overload a guy like that, he played back to backs this week, a guy with his history you give a night off even if he is coming off of back to back 50 save shutout games.

Other wise you end up with him on IR, and a guy who should be eating minutes in GR sitting pine.

But your post was more about the 2011-2012 season anyway, as that was the last time the two winning teams you mentioned even had those tandems!

Double Edit: Oh yeah, and the #1 d-man for the team was out, so you put your #1 in net and hope for the best, because Monster has proven himself to be nothing more than a backup, he is not competing for the starting job with anyone, he is there to spell Howard, if he gets hot or not he is the backup!

Edited by Opie

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One more thing you may not have noticed in your rush to post how you would be a better coach than Babs:

the Wings are in first place, granted after 9 games, but remember this was the team that was going to get dominated by the East(according to many on here).

Lets all breath deep and enjoy the long season, just because the guy you like best was on the pine, or in the press box does not mean it was a mistake.

If the Wings had won none of you would be posting about this, but it gives the negative Nancies a chance to come out and complain!

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When you have a goalie playing his a$$ off in the middle of a winning streak you don't start a cold goalie. You wait for the hot goalie to lose. I thought this was known. I don't care if it's Sawchuk, Brodeur, or Hasek sitting on the bench.

Gus was winning and Jimmy was cold. What's the worse that could happen? They get embarrassed by the Yotes for the 2nd time in a row? Well, mission accomplished.

When your hot goalie has played three games in the previous five nights, you give him a rest. Besides, it's not as if Howard could have stopped any of those shots; your argument therefore holds no water.

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Howard stopped the penalty shot and gave up a breakaway goal. If I remember right, Ribiero scored a couple of goals after the puck had bounced around in the slot and he pretty much had open net to shoot at both times. Loss wasn't on Howard. Howard didn't give up any weak goals. Defensive zone faceoff losses are more to blame.

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When your hot goalie has played three games in the previous five nights, you give him a rest. Besides, it's not as if Howard could have stopped any of those shots; your argument therefore holds no water.

That and that Gus has proven to be inconsistent in the past. There is a higher risk in riding Gus instead of Howard. You maybe can discuss that it was a coaching error if Howard had been bad but he wasn't.

Edited by derblaueClaus

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The Monster was awesome when he was in but he played more then he has in a couple years so it's easy to see why he was given a break if you ask me...and did Howard play so bad?

....For fun lets say for one game you gave Darryl M L Davey (me;) a clip board with a list of players to ice as my Wings team it's prolly going to look like this...

Abdelkader Datsyuk Franzen

Zetterberg Wiess Alfredsson

Nyquist Andersson Tatar

Bertuzzi Helm* Tootoo

Kronwall Ericsson

Quincey Dekeyser

Kindl Lashoff

Howard

Monster

....This is what I would pick, but maybe this is why I live in my house and not Mike Babcocks :tounge2:

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I agree with starting howie.. yes, gus is playing hot but you don't want to risk him getting injured.

Sammy over toots on the other hand.... :nono:

think there could be a trade involving 22 on the horizon or something?

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Yes, as it was obviously because of Howards performance that the Wings lost last night. Oh wait......

Thats not even fair. I saw 2 goals that went in that Jimmy should have had. Sure, he was hung to dry by the D but they were straight on shots that as a goalie, you have to stop. Granted, the other two goals there was nothing he could do but 2 were very soft IMO. Wasn't just howards fault but he didn't give them the chance to win by making those 2 saves. He makes those 2 saves, the yotes may not have got on a 5 goal run

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Jimmy sucked on that last goal. He couldn't even stop a puck that was shot by a guy who had just died a couple of hours earlier. It was like he was invisible.

Do NOT have Jimmy on your team if you need protection during the zombie apocalypse.

Other than that he did pretty well, except for one where I thought that he really should have had it and was stunned that he didn't have it.

We needed more offense and we didn't get it.

Note to the slower folks amongst us: That first part was a joke. Ok?

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You make it sound like Howard has been out 3 months, not 3 games. He's basically had a week off, which is nothing.

He is our #1 goalie. He is a top 10 goalie in the league. He was our best player last season by a country mile.

If we're going to do anything this season, its going to be on the backs of Pav, Z, Kronner and James T Howard.

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The Wings gave up 40 shots to Phoenix, and even with six skaters on the ice we couldn't stop their goalie from shooting. We did not deserve to win that game.

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....This is what I would pick, but maybe this is why I live in my house and not Mike Babcocks :tounge2:

I wouldn't split up Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They have been excellent together thus far, and, combined with Alfredsson, make up one of the best lines in the league right now. It isn't worth breaking up a highly productive line in an effort to get another one working.

I'd go with this:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Alfredsson

Franzen - Weiss - Bertuzzi

Tatar - Helm - Abdelkader

Cleary - Andersson - Miller

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Quincey

Kindl - Lashoff

I include Cleary because he's unlikely to be removed from the lineup. I'd rather have Glendening in his place, but that just can't work when Helm returns;.

Edited by Crymson

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Thats not even fair. I saw 2 goals that went in that Jimmy should have had. Sure, he was hung to dry by the D but they were straight on shots that as a goalie, you have to stop. Granted, the other two goals there was nothing he could do but 2 were very soft IMO. Wasn't just howards fault but he didn't give them the chance to win by making those 2 saves. He makes those 2 saves, the yotes may not have got on a 5 goal run

Which two goals ? Only shot I can think of is the breakaway, but as good as Howie is you cannot take for granted that he stops every one them. And even if: Calling the putting of your legit No.1 a coaching error is beyond my understanding.

What I understand is the disappointment, I'm disappointed myself. But the loss is not just on Howard and/or Babs.

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Howard stopped the penalty shot and gave up a breakaway goal. If I remember right, Ribiero scored a couple of goals after the puck had bounced around in the slot and he pretty much had open net to shoot at both times. Loss wasn't on Howard. Howard didn't give up any weak goals. Defensive zone faceoff losses are more to blame.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who gets the nod in net last night - either way, we lose. But I think we had something kinda good going with Monster. If you read some of the press from the games we won with him in net, especialy the Avs game, he's refered to a number of times - directly and indirectly - as One of Those Hot Goalies, the kind who comes out of nowhere and plays out of his mind. That's something pretty special, especially when you consider how much hand-wringing was happening re: our once-non-existent "tandem."

And maybe it was just me, but I thought we sort of elevated our d-game (e.g. blocking shots) and maybe even our o-game to sort of help the hot backup goalie out. I think we have a bit of a tendency to fall asleep in front of Jimmy, because he's Jimmy.

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1) Where was this "coaching error" opinion when the Wings were up 2-0 late in the second period? Its easy to point the blame after you know the result, but for some reason these opinions never pop up before the game begins.

2) Why do you start Jimmy over a goalie who's been playing hot the past three games? First of all, as others have mentioned, because Gus played 3 games in 4 nights, and goalies shouldn't be run into the ground like that. Frankly if it was Jimmy who played 3 in 4, I would expect Gus to get the start for game 5. Secondly, the Wings play the Sharks tomorrow, and I don't know if you've looked at the standings recently but the Sharks are playing near-unstoppable hockey right now. You go with your number 1 goalie in that type of game and you don't do it as his first game back from injury.

3) Where is all the blame in the rest of the Wings team, who suddenly gave up with 21 minutes left in the game and allowed 5 goals unanswered in that time? Its a bit irresponsible to pin this all on Babcock for his decision to start Jimmy Howard. I would look first to why everyone stopped playing tenaciously after getting a 2 goal lead.

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Wings will have to break up Z and D when playing against the Sharks. No way in hell can our 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines withhold their 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines.

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