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krsmith17

What would you do?...

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I know this is of no use to us now, or even this season. but jurcos building some chemistry with nyquist.

Which could be an awesome thing in the long haul.

Sure, in 10 years it will be awesome to finally see these two as regulars with the Detroit Red Wings *g*

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But only after they had succsessfull careers in Ottawa, Dallas, Colorado, you name it. :P

But seriously, what would I do ?

One wise countrayman of yours once said you must use the tools you have. So play this season out and see how far we can get with this rooster. Maybe try to shop Totoo and Miller for some late round picks. There are unfortunatley no other options this season. But bear in mind that the season is still young and there is plenty of time for the team to get adjusted. We have a lot of young guys, players who come from a long-term injruy (Weiss, Sammy) and new players who have to get accustomed to our system. And for that they are doing pretty good. In my opinion this rooster has some potential and isn't as bad as it seems right now. For example a third line consiting of Franzen - Helm - Tatar sounds great.

After the season take a look how older guys like Alfie, Sammy, Bert, Cleary have performend, get rid of them or sign some again for shorterm contracts. Bringing up Nyquist is mandatory. If possible resign Gustavsson, I would also use our buyout for Franzen and offer him a contract that wouldn't affect our cap hit after he resigns. Then try to land one of the avaible free agency stars like Phaneuf or Vanek. If we then still have holes in our rooster fill them up with our guys from Grand Rapids.

Edited by derblaueClaus

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Since he's playing himself further and further down the depth chart I'd give Dan Cleary free surgery on his knees/back/groins such that he doesn't need a wheelchair by the time he's 40 and LTIR him for the rest of the season.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Franzen - Weiss - Tatar

Nyquist - Helm - Alfredsson

Miller - Anderson - Abdelkader

Then use our glut of prospects to trade for a veteran defenceman to stabilise the bottom 3. We've got so many prospects right now, we can even afford to throw in a 2nd or a 3rd to get someone to take Quincey off our hands.

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Vet

Kindl - Actually_we_might_need_to_trade_for_two_veteran_defencemen

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Sure, in 10 years it will be awesome to finally see these two as regulars with the Detroit Red Wings *g*

you do mean the Detroit Cleary's right?

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This is what makes this situation so frustrating is because the reality is, there is very little that Holland can do to get himself out of the mess he created.

Trading prospects for a veteran defenseman for does us no good because of the cap. We would add salary without really losing any.

No team will give us picks for Tootoo or Miller. We just offered them up for free (Well, it was Eaves, who is Miller with a more attractive contract situation and less gray hair) and every team passed.

Cleary, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson have no trade clauses. In addition, 19 of the 30 NHL teams are at or near the cap for this year. So, not many trading partners. Most teams are looking to shed salary.

Probably stuck with Franzen for the long haul due to the contract. No buyouts during the season. I don't see them buying him out.

Add to that, Holland has never made blockbuster trades in any way, so it looks like what you see, is what you get. The only hope is a season ending injury to one or two of the dead weights, but its more likely we will lose someone like Helm or DeKeyser.

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I know this is of no use to us now, or even this season. but jurcos building some chemistry with nyquist.

Which could be an awesome thing in the long haul.

Very true. Generally speaking though, Nyquist is one of those players with which it isn't hard to develop chemistry if you're his linemate. He's willing to adjust himself as humanly possible so that everybody can make a good impact. When he plays with lesser skilled players, he knows he'll have to control the puck a lot. When he plays with guys like Jurco he knows he can cycle and move around more. At the college and AHL level he's shown to be very aware of the strengths of his linemates.

jimmyemeryhunter likes this

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This is what makes this situation so frustrating is because the reality is, there is very little that Holland can do to get himself out of the mess he created.

Trading prospects for a veteran defenseman for does us no good because of the cap. We would add salary without really losing any.

No team will give us picks for Tootoo or Miller. We just offered them up for free (Well, it was Eaves, who is Miller with a more attractive contract situation and less gray hair) and every team passed.

That's why the cap dead-weight needs to part of a package, not the centre-piece. Just as an example: Buffalo are in full on tank mode, and they have a veteran PMD in Erhoff, who for arguments sake is available for trade. His cap hit is $4.0M, so we need to clear that or more off our salary. Buffalo have ~$7M in cap room, so they can afford to take some salary off us. So we trade say Smith, Pulkinnen and Sheahan for Erhoff. To make it cap compliant we add pending UFA Quincey.

Not saying we should do that, or that Buffalo would agree, but that's the kind of thing we need to be doing.

So, not many trading partners. Most teams are looking to shed salary.

Agree, but there are enough bottom feeders this season - Buff, Edm, Philly etc - who are going to be looking to shed vets for prospects and picks

Add to that, Holland has never made blockbuster trades in any way,

Um, Hasek? And not "blockbusters" but Stuart, Schneider, Bertuzzi, Lang...

Edited by Nev

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I don't


That's why the cap dead-weight needs to part of a package, not the centre-piece. Just as an example: Buffalo are in full on tank mode, and they have a veteran PMD in Erhoff, who for arguments sake is available for trade. His cap hit is $4.0M, so we need to clear that or more off our salary. Buffalo have ~$7M in cap room, so they can afford to take some salary off us. So we trade say Smith, Pulkinnen and Sheahan for Erhoff. To make it cap compliant we add pending UFA Quincey.

Not saying we should do that, or that Buffalo would agree, but that's the kind of thing we need to be doing.

Agree, but there are enough bottom feeders this season - Buff, Edm, Philly etc - who are going to be looking to shed vets for prospects and picks

Um, Hasek? And not "blockbusters" but Stuart, Schneider, Bertuzzi, Lang...

I don't really see parting with an aging, declining Slava Kozlov for Hasek 11 years ago to be a blockbuster, but ok. It was unusual for Holland. The other trades are more typical of Holland; older player for a draft pick. He doesn't often part with current roster players. He tends to favor free agents, the older the better, and former Wing...Jackpot!

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I would lose my s*** if we could find a way to get Nyquist AND Jurco into the lineup.

Z-Dats-Bert

Alfie-Weiss-Abby

Franzen-Helm-Tats

Nyquist-Andersson-Juro

Talk about speed and puck possession. Alas!

Edited by kipwinger

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Declining Kozlov? He had four 70 point seasons after he left Detroit, just two whilst he was a Wing.

But whatever, I think trading for arguably the greatest goaltender of all time classes as blockbuster.

hathorlive and Hockeymom1960 like this

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Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Todd Bertuzzi

Johan Franzen Stephen Weiss Tomas Tatar

Gustav Nyquist Darren Helm Zack Kassian

Drew Miller Steve Ott Justin Abdelkader

Niklas Kronwall Danny DeKeyser

Jonathan Ericsson Daniel Alfredsson

Jakub Kindl Brian Lashoff

Jimmy Howard

Jonas Gustavsson


Declining Kozlov? He had four 70 point seasons after he left Detroit, just two whilst he was a Wing.

But whatever, I think trading for arguably the greatest goaltender of all time classes as blockbuster.

Also: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/news/1999/03/23/wings_clark/

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Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Todd Bertuzzi

Johan Franzen Stephen Weiss Tomas Tatar

Gustav Nyquist Darren Helm Zack Kassian

Drew Miller Steve Ott Justin Abdelkader

Niklas Kronwall Danny DeKeyser

Jonathan Ericsson Daniel Alfredsson

Jakub Kindl Brian Lashoff

Jimmy Howard

Jonas Gustavsson

Also: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/news/1999/03/23/wings_clark/

Lol. You're a real card.

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Lol. You're a real card.

I'm only half trolling.

I do these custom roster things all the time. About two a day. Today I'm thinking our top-six is looking ok if Franzen and Tatar can keep clicking together and Weiss finds his game. Our bottom-six, on the other hand...what a mess.

When we last won the Cup, we had an absolutely bitchin' bottom-six. Or, at least, that's how I remember it. The Grind Line was there, and so were Helm and Drake and Abdelkader and Probert and Kocur and Wendel Clark and it was awesome.

We need to get back to having a bitchin' bottom-six. We need to get back to rolling four very good lines. I know, I know - "No-can-do in today's NHL!" But I don't necessarily buy that. You just have to be really smart about it.

"And your definition of 'being really smart about it' is trading for...Zack Kassian, and...Steve Ott."

It's just an idea. In about four hours I'll have a different idea and I'll post that one and this one will be but a distant memory. But while we're here...

THE CASE FOR ZACK KASSIAN

I'm not ready to call Zack Kassian a bust. First of all, the guy's not a guy at all - he's a kid. Know how young this kid is? 22. He's Tatar's age. Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson are 24. Justin Abdelkader is 26. Drew Miller is 29.

Point being, all those people who are turning on him need to chill the eff out. (But hating Brendan Smith is ok.) He's a young power-forward. He's still growing, figuring out his body, trying to find his game, and now also adjusting to a new coach and new system. And he plays for the Canucks, so you know he needs a change of scenery.

We've been pining for a big, young, right-handed power-forward. If we're gonna get one (via trade), it's probably gonna have to be a young guy who's disappointing his current employers, otherwise we'd have to sell the farm, and that's absolutely not going to happen.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Gallagher+this+good+gets+Zack+Kassian+with+Canucks/9175989/story.html

Doesn't it just scream "Classic Holland Steal/Reclamation Project"?

I mean, he's not gonna be our '96-'97 Shanny. But that was pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime trade.

We need a big mean Canadian power-forward (with a RH shot). We need a Zack Kassian.

Brendan Smith for Zack Kassian, straight up.

THE CASE FOR STEVE OTT

I love Steve Ott. He could be our Kirk Maltby. He, along with Kassian, would make it harder to play against us. And he'd add some much-needed character. (We're heavy on character players yet somehow low on real character.)

One of Joakim Andersson/Kyle Quincey plus a late pick or two for Steve Ott.

THE CASE FOR DANIEL ALFREDSSON ON THE BLUE LINE

We need to add a high-end top-four defenseman to our blue line. This guy would, ideally, be a right-handed, puck-moving offensive-defenseman. A little bit of Lidstrom, a little bit of Rafalski. He'd have the ability to quarterback the PP, with, among other assets, an absolute rocket of a shot. He wouldn't have to be big or physical or fast; his greatest assets would be his brain ("hockey IQ") and vision. He'd be a veteran, a great leader. And he'd be Swedish.

Who does that kinda sound like?

(Worth noting: Alfie was, I believe, a defenseman at one point in his career. I think it was long, long before he hit the NHL, though. But I could be wrong.)

Would I rather keep Alfie up front and add Dan Girardi or P.K. Subban? Yes. But we have a solid top-three, and a solid top-three is the cap era equivalent of a solid top-four. Which is to say, any solution to our blue line's issues must come from within. Because Holland likes sitting on his hands.

Edited by Dabura

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I don't think it's a good move to trade for Veteran D-Man. Remember, we had/have those in White and Quincy. Moreover it's far more valueable to us to keep our young D playing to gain some experience. If we can get a #2 D-Man go get him but otherwise I'd keep the D untouched.

My lines would look like this :

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Abdelkader - Weiss - Alfredsson

Franzen - Helm - Tatar

Miller - Andersson - Samuelsson

Kronwall - DeKeyser

Smith - Ericsson

Kindl - Lashoff

This D is a risk but we should take it.

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I'm only half trolling.

I do these custom roster things all the time. About two a day. Today I'm thinking our top-six is looking ok if Franzen and Tatar can keep clicking together and Weiss finds his game. Our bottom-six, on the other hand...what a mess.

When we last won the Cup, we had an absolutely bitchin' bottom-six. Or, at least, that's how I remember it. The Grind Line was there, and so were Helm and Drake and Abdelkader and Probert and Kocur and Wendel Clark and it was awesome.

We need to get back to having a bitchin' bottom-six. We need to get back to rolling four very good lines. I know, I know - "No-can-do in today's NHL!" But I don't necessarily buy that. You just have to be really smart about it.

"And your definition of 'being really smart about it' is trading for...Zack Kassian, and...Steve Ott."

It's just an idea. In about four hours I'll have a different idea and I'll post that one and this one will be but a distant memory. But while we're here...

THE CASE FOR ZACK KASSIAN

I'm not ready to call Zack Kassian a bust. First of all, the guy's not a guy at all - he's a kid. Know how young this kid is? 22. He's Tatar's age. Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson are 24. Justin Abdelkader is 26. Drew Miller is 29.

Point being, all those people who are turning on him need to chill the eff out. (But hating Brendan Smith is ok.) He's a young power-forward. He's still growing, figuring out his body, trying to find his game, and now also adjusting to a new coach and new system. And he plays for the Canucks, so you know he needs a change of scenery.

We've been pining for a big, young, right-handed power-forward. If we're gonna get one (via trade), it's probably gonna have to be a young guy who's disappointing his current employers, otherwise we'd have to sell the farm, and that's absolutely not going to happen.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Gallagher+this+good+gets+Zack+Kassian+with+Canucks/9175989/story.html

Doesn't it just scream "Classic Holland Steal/Reclamation Project"?

I mean, he's not gonna be our '96-'97 Shanny. But that was pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime trade.

We need a big mean Canadian power-forward (with a RH shot). We need a Zack Kassian.

Brendan Smith for Zack Kassian, straight up.

THE CASE FOR STEVE OTT

I love Steve Ott. He could be our Kirk Maltby. He, along with Kassian, would make it harder to play against us. And he'd add some much-needed character. (We're heavy on character players yet somehow low on real character.)

One of Joakim Andersson/Kyle Quincey plus a late pick or two for Steve Ott.

THE CASE FOR DANIEL ALFREDSSON ON THE BLUE LINE

We need to add a high-end top-four defenseman to our blue line. This guy would, ideally, be a right-handed, puck-moving offensive-defenseman. A little bit of Lidstrom, a little bit of Rafalski. He'd have the ability to quarterback the PP, with, among other assets, an absolute rocket of a shot. He wouldn't have to be big or physical or fast; his greatest assets would be his brain ("hockey IQ") and vision. He'd be a veteran, a great leader. And he'd be Swedish.

Who does that kinda sound like?

(Worth noting: Alfie was, I believe, a defenseman at one point in his career. I think it was long, long before he hit the NHL, though. But I could be wrong.)

Would I rather keep Alfie up front and add Dan Girardi or P.K. Subban? Yes. But we have a solid top-three, and a solid top-three is the cap era equivalent of a solid top-four. Which is to say, any solution to our blue line's issues must come from within. Because Holland likes sitting on his hands.

Of your ideas, I like the addition of Ott the best. But he makes too much to be on the fourth line, and we've already got a pretty badass third line center. I don't like Kassian because he doesn't fit our style of play any more than he fits Vancouver's. He'd struggle here.

I don't think the problem is that our bottom six aren't tough enough, toughness has never been our hallmark, we win or die based on speed and skill. We're struggling right now because our team lacks a lot of both. The only trade I'd really want to see would be for at top four puck moving d-man. Someone who could help out our transition game (which is f*cking horrible). Dmitry Kulikov comes to mind.

In terms of forwards, ideally I'd like to see us promote a couple of skilled forwards from GR and lose the dead weight. But obviously that's not happening anytime soon. So, all things considered here's my custom lineup.

Z-Dats-Bert

Alfie-Weiss-Abby

Tatar-Helm-Franzen

Jurco-Andersson-Nyquist

Cleary-Miller

Kronwall-Ericsson

Dekeyser-Kulikov

Kindl-Quincey/Smith

Lashoff

Howard

Gus

Never going to happen, but I can dream.

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Declining Kozlov? He had four 70 point seasons after he left Detroit, just two whilst he was a Wing.

But whatever, I think trading for arguably the greatest goaltender of all time classes as blockbuster.

I just think of a blockbuster trade as involving multiple players and being somewhat of a risk on both sides. To me, pulling the trigger on the Hasek for Kozlov deal was more of a no brainer. Buffalo wanted to get rid of the salary and Detroit had no problem spending money. Detroit was somewhat set with their top 6 and getting rid of Kozlov allowed them to sign Hull and Robitaille. Kozlov did end up finishing strong with Atlanta, but he had pretty much reached his full potential in Detroit. I think it was more of the situation he was in with an expansion team. Not in any way saying Kozlov was a poor player. I was a fan of his. But I don't think many GM's would have thought twice about swapping him for Hasek if money were no object.

Holland generally likes to play it safe when trades are involved. I like the idea of the Buffalo trade. Unlike most of the proposed roster moves, it's actually plausible and makes sense. Unfortunately, I don't know as though Holland would trade Quincey, because it would be pretty much admitting a mistake. In Holland's defense, I don't think anyone could have predicted how much Quincey would regress.

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I really have to wonder what happens when guys like Nyquist become a RF or worse an UFA. Why the heck would he tolerate a management team that has kept him in GR way longer than he deserved? I would live in fear that I'd be sent down (or up or over or put on waivers) because management was so stupid they continued to sign players that were too old or not needed. We were all convinced this was Nyquists year and there he sits in GR.

The Wings management need to be very careful about who they screw over today because people aren't taking the hometown discount and they aren't going to stay around when you've dicked them over for years.

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Every time I see this thread title I think of Boondock Saints.

"Hey! Boris!... WHAT WOULD YOU DO?... If I told you... Your pinko Commie mother sucked so much d**k, her face looks like an egg?"

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If I were Holland I'd look into packaging our 2013 1st round pick + Pulks/Almquist + Quincey and see if we can nab a pending UFA/RFA like Girardi or Kulikov. Realistically Holland NEVER trades roster players (for loyalty or something?).

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I really don't get the fascination people have with guys like Del Zotto, Kulikov and other similar defencemen. Don't we already have enough good skating/first pass defencemen who are a liability in our own zone?

And no those guys are not powerplay quarterbacks. They can barely crack their rosters on their current struggling teams.

Girardi? Sure but he's a pending UFA and will probably re-up with NYR or test the market therefor probably not the best risk.

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