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Respect Babcock and Holland


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#1 wingslionstigers

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:16 PM

I know it's frustrating not seeing Nyquist up and the Wings struggling but you guys have no reason to call for Babcock or Hollands heads.I'm writing this post due to the ever increasing complaints amongst the Red Wing fans.

Detroit is about 2-3 seasons away at MAX from being a cup favorite, AGAIN. They did this while making the playoffs every single year and they likely will again this year too. If you guys can't see that you're choosing the be blind. Not many other teams can pull that off. Mantha is looking like the closest thing you can possibly be from this distance in his development to look like a lock in the future top 6 and will likely be a top 1-2 player. Nyquist and Tatar are likely going to be top 3-7 caliber players. They both work really hard too so they will be hard working guys for those top 2 lines. Datsyuk and Z have a handful of good years left, especially Datsyuk as he will likely be one of those guys to be dominate until almost 40. Even when they do decline they will be an awesome second line combo. Jurco also looks pretty impressive, and if any one of the guys I mentioned don't fully pan out maybe he will and will and replace the guy who doesn't. That's how deep we are. In a couple seasons or so our guys will mostly be developed, some will be more fully seasoned than others but we will have enough seasoned players with the right mix of raw talent injected onto the team.

To the defense..... Kronwall has quite a few years left, the guy is a clear cut number one defencemen and he is still getting better. Ericcson isn't going nowhere, the guy is solid and any team would love to have a solid guy on their top 4 like him. Dekeyser seems like the sky is the limit. This guy could be so good for us I don't even think most people realize what we might have in him yet. Just like Lidstrom he doesn't posses god gifted skill. He is super intelligent and is trying to perfect every detail in his game, he could be the closest thing to a Lidstrom anyone in Detroit may see for along time. Only time will tell, but at worst he will be a fantastic guy to have in your top 4. Smith has tons of talent and if anyone has ruled him out already it's a good thing you don't actually have a job in the NHL. Maybe he'll never be more than a 5 or 6 guy or maybe he will wash out of the league. But give him the rest of the season and maybe 20 or 30 games into next season. He may end up as good as he was projected to be. Kindl he is a solid bottom pairing guy anyway you cut it and will still tighten his game up in time. He may not be needed in a couple seasons in Detroit, but if we do need him to stick around he will fit that bill and be a good one for it. Sproul and Quellet are on their way they both already have proven it. Sproul is leading the Griffens defense in scoring who just came straight from the OHL. That is impressive. This kid could be a top pairing guy and the offensive D that we need. Quellet I am not so sure what he will be for us but so far I am impressed. Plug a couple of our D prospects into our current Wings D core and replace of whomever from this current batch didn't cut it and suddenly.... Suddenly wow what a potent defense we have.

Bottom Six Forwards. Helm, Andersson, Glendenning, Abdelkader, Miller look at the guys we have. Oh and I forgot to mention Pulkinen and Jarnkrok. Sorry if I can't spell foreign names correctly, not taking the time to look them up.

We are going to be really good guys. Count on it. What a fantastic job this organization is doing rebuilding and still keeping our playoff streak alive. This wouldn't be possible if we made trades. Our team is going to be a lot better for a lot longer than it would if we traded multiple prospects for a top player that would only make us "better" not great for a couple years. Holland tried to land big free agents, he couldn't get them and that's not his fault. Sammy and Cleary were signed to help us get to these years that I am talking about not replace these guys, likely signed more for leadership reasons to help develop our players. I'm sure these guys have a great positive impact on our young players by helping them address the areas in their game you only gain from experience and not talent. Just chill out guys and enjoy watching our young talent struggle and find a way to eventually emerge into what looks to be a fantastic future for this team.



#2 wings_fanatic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:22 PM

Yah we have tons of skills in the young guys, but 3 years from now Babcock will probably still be playing effin Dan Cleary on the top line. I understand Kenny has made good moves for this team, but he has also made some dumb ones that are affecting us now such as Cleary and Sammy contracts.

 

The main problem is Babcock. He is making all the wrong decisions this year. Continuing to not only play Cleary, but reward him with ice time and, somehow he now gets on the top line with #13! To add to that he has been out coached in almost every game. We lost 3 OT's in a row in the last minute of OT because Babcock failed to make sure to have Pavs, Hank or Kronners on the ice. Simply put, he isnt getting the job done.



#3 pucktividi

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:10 PM

I don't think there's a Wing fan who doesn't apreciate what Ken and Mike did for the organization,but the way they run the team lately make us fans to lose the confidence in the dynamic duo game after game.just my opinion



#4 rick zombo

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:25 PM

I'm a spoiled brat. So no. No respect. Unless we have a deep run or win the cup. Then it's ZOMFG, these guys are genius.


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#5 wings87

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:54 PM

I got massive respect for Babcock especially for what he did last year with a young and at times ugly looking team.

 

As far as Holland goes I'm really down on his decisions, he seems to be stuck in the past. Datsyuk has needed a pure scorer on his line since Hull left. Holland got Hossa and than let him defect to a rival team and instead signed Franzen.

 

And if I have to hear him say we like our prospects to be "over-ripe" one more time I might barf. 


"He usually shows up when the game is over and tries to be the hero. Puts his cape on and goes and flies out there." ~ Franzen 


#6 dobbles

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

i'm done respecting them until they earn it. especially holland.

 

every year we hear about how things are going to turn around. every year on here we talk about our great prospect depth an how all of these top tier free agents will be available. and then every year nothing happens...

 

we are not getting better. and it might even be a few years before we are because so many player have had their development nerfed. it does no good to have a prospect pool of nyquist, tatar, jurco, etc if none of them play.

 

for several years we heard that the team was saving cap space for deadline moves or for the future. yet here we are with no cap space and a totally mediocre team.

 

our superstars are gone or aging. unless we actually give youth a chance, then how will we see if we have that next generation of star in our organization?


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#7 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:34 PM

How long did Fedorov, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Dats, and Z play in the minors?

 

"Over-ripe" is code for "most of our minor league players will never be first line stars in the big league."

 

All of this Grand-Rapids-is-loaded talk is smoke and mirrors BS. The fans that buy into it are over-optimistic or kool-aid guzzling homers.Do the Wings have some decent prospects? Sure. Do they have any can't-miss top line stars? Unlikely. Small Euros, players who can't crack a line-up until 24, and first year pros don't usually blossom into special franchise players.

 

The ways to build a team are:

 

(1) Tank for a few years and draft high (which I hope doesn't happen to the Wings, but it's worked for Pitt and Chicago)

(2) Land big free agents in their prime (like Suter and Parise)

(3) Load up on draft picks/prospects by trading away today's assets (i.e.--Erat for Forsberg)

(4) Get really lucky in the draft (which used to be the forte of the Wings)

 

Notice this list does not include "(5) After failing to land big free agents, sign scrubs and other players the coach won't put in the lineup. Also, never admit a mistake and refuse to do anything about it."



#8 Dabura

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:42 PM

R-e-p-e-c-t

Find out what it means to me

R-e-p-e-c-t

Buy out Dan Cleary


Don't Toews me, bro!


#9 Internet.Unknown

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:48 PM

R-e-p-e-c-t

Find out what it means to me

R-e-p-e-c-t

Buy out Dan Cleary

Re-pect? Is that when Sammy injured his nipple?



#10 themcityblues

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

It's a half empty / full thing.  I could see this team being 2-3 years away from being close to the bottom of the league.



#11 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:43 PM

YOU KNOW YOU MAKE ME WANNA SHOUT

KICK MY HEELS AND SHOUT

THROW MY HANDS UP AND SHOUT

 

Seriously though I still respect both of them. 

 

It's easy for us on here to bash them when we are losing and easy to hail them when we are winning.

 

Having said that this funk that we are in needs to stop. Missing the playoffs wouldn't be a complete disaster just more of a reality check with hopefully BIG changes and people let go come the off season.

 

Still a lot of season left for the team to turn it as mentioned by some posters on here...

 

Gotta stay positive somehow.



#12 Dabura

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:50 PM

Re-pect? Is that when Sammy injured his nipple?

 

Whoa, that is actually exactly what I was going for. +1


Don't Toews me, bro!


#13 F.Michael

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:52 PM

Cup favorite in 2, or 3 years?

 

You got the winning Power Ball numbers for me?


Edited by F.Michael, 20 November 2013 - 05:54 PM.


'Evolution' created by Offsides

#14 GoalieManPat

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:01 PM

You can respect someone while still questioning there job performance. I respect my employees but if they are failing at there job Ill still fire them. 



#15 wingslionstigers

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

I got massive respect for Babcock especially for what he did last year with a young and at times ugly looking team.

 

As far as Holland goes I'm really down on his decisions, he seems to be stuck in the past. Datsyuk has needed a pure scorer on his line since Hull left. Holland got Hossa and than let him defect to a rival team and instead signed Franzen.

 

And if I have to hear him say we like our prospects to be "over-ripe" one more time I might barf. 

I think your stuck in the past when there wasn't a salary cap. Sorry buddy can't have all the best players in the world on your team anymore. Why Holland chose Franzen over Hossa is clear, salary.

Hossa stats 12-13
40gp and 31 points
Franzen stats 12-13
41gp 31 points

Hossa stats 11-12
81gp 71 points
Franzen stats 11-12
77gp 56 points

Hossa 2 season / 102 points
Frazen 2 season / 87 points

Hossa 5.275 million per season
Frazen 3.954 million per season

Franzen gets paid 74.9% of Hossa and produces at 85.3% compared to Hossa.

Frazen is a much better value than Hossa. Good choice by Holland in a salary cap world.



 


i'm done respecting them until they earn it. especially holland.

 

every year we hear about how things are going to turn around. every year on here we talk about our great prospect depth an how all of these top tier free agents will be available. and then every year nothing happens...

 

we are not getting better. and it might even be a few years before we are because so many player have had their development nerfed. it does no good to have a prospect pool of nyquist, tatar, jurco, etc if none of them play.

 

for several years we heard that the team was saving cap space for deadline moves or for the future. yet here we are with no cap space and a totally mediocre team.

 

our superstars are gone or aging. unless we actually give youth a chance, then how will we see if we have that next generation of star in our organization?

Ohh poor you we only won 3 Stanley Cups during this streak and made the playoffs more consecutive years than any team in the league. We better fire them because Wings fans want a Stanly Cup every single year for the rest of their lives. To bad you can't leave the Wings and root for another team because no other team in the league will satisfy you for more than a couple years in a row.

How many times have we been in the Eastern Conference Championship game? How many Stanley Cup appearances? Can you say mis managed teams, OMG we only rank number 1 in all the category's.


How long did Fedorov, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Dats, and Z play in the minors?

 

"Over-ripe" is code for "most of our minor league players will never be first line stars in the big league."

 

All of this Grand-Rapids-is-loaded talk is smoke and mirrors BS. The fans that buy into it are over-optimistic or kool-aid guzzling homers.Do the Wings have some decent prospects? Sure. Do they have any can't-miss top line stars? Unlikely. Small Euros, players who can't crack a line-up until 24, and first year pros don't usually blossom into special franchise players.

 

The ways to build a team are:

 

(1) Tank for a few years and draft high (which I hope doesn't happen to the Wings, but it's worked for Pitt and Chicago)

(2) Land big free agents in their prime (like Suter and Parise)

(3) Load up on draft picks/prospects by trading away today's assets (i.e.--Erat for Forsberg)

(4) Get really lucky in the draft (which used to be the forte of the Wings)

 

Notice this list does not include "(5) After failing to land big free agents, sign scrubs and other players the coach won't put in the lineup. Also, never admit a mistake and refuse to do anything about it."

Oh your right man we have nothing in Grand Rapids we just won the Calder Cup led by our prospects... Yeah that means nothing. Landing the big name free agents you mentioned sure has been working great for Min hey??? Oh wait Min doesn't have the management and prospect pool we do to make those 2 star players worth jack chit.


I would love to see you guys endure having a crappy GM who would trade off our team tank and try to build a new team that's only sustainable for a few cup runs and tanks for years again and again.

Red Wings have down years, but our down years we still make the playoffs and still have a chance to compete in playoffs just like last year. We also have years where we are cup favorites. Man we got it so bad.



#16 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:27 PM

It doesn't matter how good Tatar, Nyquist and Jurco are if they're buried for the likes of Cleary, Miller and Sammy. We have the pieces to be a contender but it's a matter of not having faith in management to use them properly. Jurco may not be a Wing in time to play with and learn from Dats.

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Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#17 T.Low

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

You can respect someone while still questioning there job performance.


Exactly.

It's because I respect them so much that I am holding them accountable, I'm holding their feet to the fire.
We haven't seen a horrible run like this in almost 25 years. You've got to expect some backlash from the faithful.
Our team stands at a precipice: we can hurl ourselves into the void and have confidence to make the bold moves which include adding the right youth, and making the one or two trades that put us right back into the elit; Or we can be timid and afraid to make these moves, and hold on too long to players who gave us their all and have nothing left to giver, and watch this team fall out of contention for years to come.

You are right: we are not that far from Cup contention. But you are wrong if you don't see how easily we can deviate from that direction by holding on to long to mediocre depth veterans that have nothing left to give

#18 ben_usmc

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:55 PM

Most people don't think we are going to miss the playoffs. People are pissed off and completely justified because Holland and Babcock seem to be watching a different game than everyone else.  Cleary is the example, Holland signed him and he's a useless player basically could have burned money in a barrel and have more worth, staying warm. Yesterday Babcock plays this guy who is the worst player on the ice, and he gets a 4 minute penalty.  After that penalty he doesn't get sat, like Tatar or Brunner would, he is sent back out there for a pulled goalie situation.  Actions like this make it look as though they are actively playing against us.  Holland and Babcock should be ashamed of the product they provided recently and that is all because of nepotism and stubbornness. 

 

 Unless they are using the season as a practice. Like someone running with weights and once they are taken off they can run much faster.  After we lose the dead weight we'll be f****** Usain Bolt!!!!! Those Brilliant Bastards!


Edited by ben_usmc, 20 November 2013 - 07:55 PM.

There's no I in team, but there's a U in c***, so don't be little jealous c***s

#19 Shaman

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:08 PM

I think your stuck in the past when there wasn't a salary cap. Sorry buddy can't have all the best players in the world on your team anymore. Why Holland chose Franzen over Hossa is clear, salary.

Hossa stats 12-13
40gp and 31 points
Franzen stats 12-13
41gp 31 points

Hossa stats 11-12
81gp 71 points
Franzen stats 11-12
77gp 56 points

Hossa 2 season / 102 points
Frazen 2 season / 87 points

Hossa 5.275 million per season
Frazen 3.954 million per season

Franzen gets paid 74.9% of Hossa and produces at 85.3% compared to Hossa.

Frazen is a much better value than Hossa. Good choice by Holland in a salary cap world.



 


Ohh poor you we only won 3 Stanley Cups during this streak and made the playoffs more consecutive years than any team in the league. We better fire them because Wings fans want a Stanly Cup every single year for the rest of their lives. To bad you can't leave the Wings and root for another team because no other team in the league will satisfy you for more than a couple years in a row.

How many times have we been in the Eastern Conference Championship game? How many Stanley Cup appearances? Can you say mis managed teams, OMG we only rank number 1 in all the category's.


Oh your right man we have nothing in Grand Rapids we just won the Calder Cup led by our prospects... Yeah that means nothing. Landing the big name free agents you mentioned sure has been working great for Min hey??? Oh wait Min doesn't have the management and prospect pool we do to make those 2 star players worth jack chit.


I would love to see you guys endure having a crappy GM who would trade off our team tank and try to build a new team that's only sustainable for a few cup runs and tanks for years again and again.

Red Wings have down years, but our down years we still make the playoffs and still have a chance to compete in playoffs just like last year. We also have years where we are cup favorites. Man we got it so bad.

One problem skippy, those stats tell you nothing, take out outlier games by Franzen where he scored 4-5 goals in one game and then add in Hossa being in a different league defensively and Hossa is the better deal by a country mile.


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Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#20 Mckinley25

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:37 PM

We may have a good farm, but we don't have a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom in the prospect system. I think our D could be great in 5 years, I'm worried though about our forwards.





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