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Weiss

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What do we do with Weiss? He's stuck on the 4th line right now... we signed him to be our 2nd line center but he did absolutely nothing there.

Dats will be the 1st line center

Z needs to remain the 2nd line center for now. The line of Mule-Z-Nyquist is just too good to split up

Helm is playing at a level he has never played at before, Alfie likes playing with him, and that line in general is doing great atm

Andersson is usually 4th line (although with Dats out he was bumped up)

What place does Weiss have on this team? Do we try him at wing? Has he even played wing in the NHL before?

The fact is he has 3 points on the season, which is embarrassing. I remember Babs said before the season started he needed to hit 50 points at least. This is obviously not going to happen unless he somehow goes on a hot streak for the rest of the season, which wont happen with Cleary and Sammy as his linemates

Maybe Babcock thought "well he's so used to playing with trash in florida, lets throw him in with Sammy and cleary and see if that works!"

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As I stated in the lines thread, when everyone is healty, there are 2 spots for him atm - on Dats wing, or on the 4th line (at wing or Anderssons 4C spot).

Lets be patient with the guy. He's ~ 20 games into a 400 game contract. Tell him just to concentrate on finding his feet, and his place in the team, let him gain some confidence.

pucktividi likes this

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I agree with patience. Yes he is struggling, but he's still a solid player and I believe he will find his way. Having Pavel, Z, Weiss, Helm down the middle is as deep as it gets.

LidsFan likes this

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I personally wouldn't have been so quick to give up on him and dump him on the 4th line. He is a relatively skilled player, had some injury issues along the way. New team, new linemates, new coach, I don't know if 25 games give or take is enough for him to settle and play at his peak game before considering him a non-producing 4th liner. Slumps happen, he could be way past his prime, but i'd be willing to give him more time on the 2nd line especially while Pav is down and out.

There is another ongoing Weiss thread going on in the link below that this conversation might be better suited to continue in if this one becomes merged.

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/75433-stephen-weiss/

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i guess i am impatient. Brunner got all kinds of flak when he wasn't producing as a rookie in the NHL las season. Weiss costs 2 x more and we should be patient? Am I saying Brunner would be better now? Not really, the guy is lost in Jersey. But it seems that Weiss is lost in Detroit.

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He's good at face offs that's why I like him at center. Don't seem to notice him too much good or bad. He's had a handful of good scoring chance plays all year which is terrible.

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i guess i am impatient. Brunner got all kinds of flak when he wasn't producing as a rookie in the NHL las season. Weiss costs 2 x more and we should be patient? Am I saying Brunner would be better now? Not really, the guy is lost in Jersey. But it seems that Weiss is lost in Detroit.

I feel the same way. I mean, Alfie played how many years for the same team, and he didn't need to "adjust" to a new coach or team or system or whatever. The Wings don't have the luxury of patience. D and Z aren't 25 year olds. Their best years are likely behind them and we need a 2nd line center to produce now, not 4 or 5 years from now. Datsyuk will be back in Russia by then.

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He has looked better the last little while. Nothing amazing but showing he's not hopeless. I really want to see him together with one/both of Z and Nyquist.

Gotta get him going and then hopefully he can lock down the 2nd line C spot.

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The guy is 20 games into his contract lets give him some time. Hes going to be here a while so don't sour to quickly. Lets not forget before coming into Detroit he only played in 17 games the previous year. Could have still been some rust as well as learning a new team. He was real bad at the start but since coming back from injury hes looked better each game. The points will come. More than likely when he can get away from having Cleary and Sammy on his wings. The guy has proven he can score and he will. Lets not forget anyone not named Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Alfredsson on this team have been struggling to score this year as well.

Edited by GoalieManPat

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I'll give him some slack because it's been a weird year so far. He leaves his home for the last decade, joins a team going through a historic slump where no one did anything right, can't develop chemistry due to line juggling, now has HBO cameras probably throwing the locker room out of whack, and now feels pressure because he's underperforming.

He will come around and things will straighten out with the team as a whole.

TheXym likes this

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I really don't get why some players are given an automatic pass and others aren't. We can't play the whole damn team with Datsyuk to produce. He was given a big contract to come in and be a #2 center. He was supposedly a #1 center in Florida and this was supposed to be a no brainer. Now people are happy if he just doesn't suck while he's out there? It's unbelievable.

dobbles and GMRwings1983 like this

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I really don't get why some players are given an automatic pass and others aren't. We can't play the whole damn team with Datsyuk to produce. He was given a big contract to come in and be a #2 center. He was supposedly a #1 center in Florida and this was supposed to be a no brainer. Now people are happy if he just doesn't suck while he's out there? It's unbelievable.

I really don't get why some people absolutely write a player off after being on the team for 25 games. Comparing Weiss to Alfie is just as stupid as it gets, Alfie has elite vision and Hockey IQ which 80% doesn't even possess, that's why he can come in and do what he does. I question your loyalty as a Wing fan sometimes, if it isn't Datsyuk or Zetterberg according to you they suck.

How about giving the guy more than 20 games ? and not playing him with Sammy and Cleary. If you remember correctly a couple weeks ago Datsyuk was playing with Cleary and Bert and went -6 in a span of 3 games and only put up 1 point, that alone should tell you what Weiss is going through.

GoalieManPat likes this

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I really don't get why some people absolutely write a player off after being on the team for 25 games. Comparing Weiss to Alfie is just as stupid as it gets, Alfie has elite vision and Hockey IQ which 80% doesn't even possess, that's why he can come in and do what he does. I question your loyalty as a Wing fan sometimes, if it isn't Datsyuk or Zetterberg according to you they suck.

How about giving the guy more than 20 games ? and not playing him with Sammy and Cleary. If you remember correctly a couple weeks ago Datsyuk was playing with Cleary and Bert and went -6 in a span of 3 games and only put up 1 point, that alone should tell you what Weiss is going through.

I have never said anyone sucks. More often than not, I defend most of the Wings. I even said enough already with the Cleary bashing. I don't know how that disqualifies me as a Wings fan. I also have not "written him off". But I'm also not going to go awwwwwwwwwwwww, but he's with a new team, and a new system, and a new coach.

Tatar has been totally jerked around and yet has managed to produce. So has Nyquist. Helm missed an entire season plus and didn't miss a beat upon return. Weiss should be held to the same expectations as everyone else on this team.

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I think if you put Weiss with Dats or Z the guy will produce and obviously start to feel good about his game again. If all else fails try to make a trade for Brunner :w00t:

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He needs to get more confident out there. In Florida Weiss was the go-to guy out there. Now he's behind Dats, Z, Alfie, and Mule on the depth chart. Some guys like having the pressure off them, but Weiss looks like he doesn't trust his own skill out there any more. He is quick to pass to someone else instead of hang onto the puck and try to make something happen. I'm sure part of it is coming to a new franchise and learning a new system, and just trying not to be a liability. That's certainly how he's playing. Part of me agrees with putting him on a line with Cleary and Sammy, because it forces him to be a leader again and try to make something out of nothing. But I think it may be better trying him between Tatar and Nyqvist. They're both highly skilled, but they also both need guidance at this point in their careers. Put Weiss between him and he might get a little more confident out there, redevelop that leadership, and still have the benefit of working with some skill instead of Sammy and Cleary. He would be the veteran presence on that line.

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Filppula doesn't seem to have trouble adjusting to a new team.

Weiss may turn out to be a good signing, but I was never in favor of signing another small, left-handed centerman in his 30's. Then again, even I didn't think he'd be this bad 25 games in.

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I really don't get why some people absolutely write a player off after being on the team for 25 games. Comparing Weiss to Alfie is just as stupid as it gets, Alfie has elite vision and Hockey IQ which 80% doesn't even possess, that's why he can come in and do what he does. I question your loyalty as a Wing fan sometimes, if it isn't Datsyuk or Zetterberg according to you they suck.

How about giving the guy more than 20 games ? and not playing him with Sammy and Cleary. If you remember correctly a couple weeks ago Datsyuk was playing with Cleary and Bert and went -6 in a span of 3 games and only put up 1 point, that alone should tell you what Weiss is going through.

I really don't get why some people absolutely write a player off after being on the team for 25 games. Comparing Weiss to Alfie is just as stupid as it gets, Alfie has elite vision and Hockey IQ which 80% doesn't even possess, that's why he can come in and do what he does. I question your loyalty as a Wing fan sometimes, if it isn't Datsyuk or Zetterberg according to you they suck.

How about giving the guy more than 20 games ? and not playing him with Sammy and Cleary. If you remember correctly a couple weeks ago Datsyuk was playing with Cleary and Bert and went -6 in a span of 3 games and only put up 1 point, that alone should tell you what Weiss is going through.

People give him a pass because he's not a 40 year old. I mean, come on people. What are we supposed to do with him? A player doesn't go from being effective year after year to just never being any good ever again. You especially don't judge a player only 25% into the season.

Right now it's not the best signing, but it's far more likely he'll return to form than continue to do absolutely nothing. That's why he gets a pass. However, TONS of new kids burn out, which is why players like Brunner don't get a pass. Weiss has a track record of success. Thus, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

And I agree with another poster, comparing Weiss to Alfredsson isn't right. Weiss is a solid two way center. Alfredsson is a Hall of Famer.

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I say give him the rest of this season, and if he continues not to produce or really show much of anything, we use our other compliance buyout on him next offseason. we're stuck with him until then. He's definitely underperfomed so far, regardless of the excuses.

nawein likes this

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Daniel Cleary 20 games played, 1G 2A

Stephen Weiss 20 games played, 2G 1A

Valterri Filppula 25 games played, 9G 10A

The scary thing is that Weiss isn't any better than Cleary.

Brian McGrattan 22 games played, 0G 1A (if McGrattan can somehow score a point in his next game, he will only be a point behind Cleary and Weiss).

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I didn't like the Weiss signing when it happened and still don't. But I will say itnis still too early to say it is yet another bad signing by Holland.

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I'll be excited when Weiss starts performing and people have to eat crow, because it will happen.

That's just it though. Hating on Weiss is a pretty easy position to take. It's win/win for them. If he doesn't perform they're "right" and if he does it helps the Wings and the greater good and all is forgotten.

I guess you could say that for anyone who's overly critical of a player...

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People give him a pass because he's not a 40 year old. I mean, come on people. What are we supposed to do with him? A player doesn't go from being effective year after year to just never being any good ever again. You especially don't judge a player only 25% into the season.

Right now it's not the best signing, but it's far more likely he'll return to form than continue to do absolutely nothing. That's why he gets a pass. However, TONS of new kids burn out, which is why players like Brunner don't get a pass. Weiss has a track record of success. Thus, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

And I agree with another poster, comparing Weiss to Alfredsson isn't right. Weiss is a solid two way center. Alfredsson is a Hall of Famer.

Kyle Quincey was a fairly productive defenseman for LA and Colorado, and he's 50 something games into his second stint with the Red Wings, but I don't hear anyone calling for patience and giving him a pass. Jimmy Carson was a superstar with LA and Edmonton and just never could get it together for the Wings. I don't think it's totally unheard of for Free Agents to sign with a new team and never quite find the success that they once had.

As I said before, it's amazing that different players are held to such different standards. Alfredsson and Franzen have the exact same stats, but Alfie's been a huge success and Franzen is a colossal failure and should be bought out. Cleary and Weiss have about the same stats, but Cleary has countless hate threads, and Weiss is defended, though he makes 3 million more than Cleary and has never had a good playoff for the Wings. Can you just imagine the outcry if Filppula had re-signed here and had those stats? Samuelsson sat out most of last season and missed many games the season before, but I don't see anyone calling for patience or making excuses for him. He just sucks, though he's had past success in his career.

Why is it so hard for people to admit Weiss has been bad so far and just leave it at that. No excuses necessary. He may get better or he may not, but he hasn't been good thus far.

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