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Hockeytown0001

GDT
12/23 GDT : Islanders 3 at Red Wings 0

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265 posts in this topic

I hear you. And I don't really disagree. But I'm not sure we're all that great even when we're healthy (see earlier this season, shootout losses and such).

What really worries me is that we don't win games we should win, which probably means we're going to have to take some games against some very good teams in the second half of the season (when the very good teams generally create definite separation in the standings). I hate that.

I dunno, Babs doesn't seem to see much of a problem with him. Point taken, though.

Not really fair to judge a team early in the season. That's when the flashes in the pan are still flashing and the teams that are just going through early-season issues or growing pains are still doing such. Keep in mind we didn't have Helm for much of that time. His value to the team is obvious.

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Like that 0-5 beatdown last month?

Right.

7-1-1 in last 9 games against Isles I rest my case.. Isles dominate us each and every time in last few years.

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I dunno, Babs doesn't seem to see much of a problem with him. Point taken, though.

Babs doesn't have much of a problem with Cleary, either. Sarcasm was not unrecognized, however. Edited by DatsyukToZetterberg

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Not really fair to judge a team early in the season. That's when the flashes in the pan are still flashing and the teams that are just going through early-season issues or growing pains are still doing such. Keep in mind we didn't have Helm for much of that time. His value to the team is obvious.

Not fully judging them yet. But I think we can form a pretty good idea of what kind of team this is. (One that's not significantly different from and better than the one that just barely made it into the playoffs last season, albeit in a better conference and with only about forty games to work with).

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do believe we'll keep the streak alive. I'm just concerned that we might not. Which feels new and weird, even after last season.

You and I are on the same page, I think. I just want to see us win these games that we should be winning. And this whole sucking at home thing...the Joe used to be good for a whole bunch of guaranteed points. Maybe we've just flipped the script and it's the road where we dominate now, but, even so, it's concerning. I think it points to "mental issues."

But, who knows, maybe January will be great for us, since we definitely tend to play better against better teams.

Edited by Dabura

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Not fully judging them yet. But I think we can form a pretty good idea of what kind of team this is. (One that's not significantly different from and better than the one that just barely made it into the playoffs last season, albeit in a better conference and with only about forty games to work with).

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do believe we'll keep the streak alive. I'm just concerned that we might not. Which feels new and weird, even after last season.

You and I are on the same page, I think. I just want to see us win these games that we should be winning. And this whole sucking at home thing...the Joe used to be good for a whole bunch of guaranteed points. Maybe we've just flipped the script and it's the road where we dominate now, but, even so, it's concerning. I think it points to "mental issues."

But, who knows, maybe January will be great for us, since we definitely tend to play better against better teams.

Mental issues that a team like this shouldn't have. Plenty of veterans and a tough, hockey-savvy coach. Doesn't make sense to me. I just can't buy into the thinking that Cleary and Quincey cancel all of that out and turn us into an absolute s***show.

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Mental issues that a team like this shouldn't have. Plenty of veterans and a tough, hockey-savvy coach. Doesn't make sense to me. I just can't buy into the thinking that Cleary and Quincey cancel all of that out and turn us into an absolute s***show.

Agree really hard with the bolded part. And there are other issues that a team like this one shouldn't have, like not knowing how to play with and maintain a lead. Or, of course, incompetence in the shootout. (Aren't we supposed to be a "skill team"?) And, something else that bothers me: it used to be that we would get better as the game progressed, sometimes saving ten minutes of effort for the final frame and winning the game in the final few minutes. This season we are, thus far, a dumpster fire in the second and third periods. Or we outright blow the game in the first and then never really get it going at all (see: tonight), though I'm not sure if that's an actual trend this season or just something that feels like it's happened more than it has, because when it has happened, it's seared itself into my head.

I want to chalk this and everything else up to the injuries we've had to deal with. And then throw in the Quincey-created goal or two per game (whether it's a boneheaded play or an equally boneheaded penalty), and maybe that covers everything. In which case we'd just have to be healthy and scratch Quincey.

But I dunno. Maybe it's something simpler, maybe it's something more complex. Maybe it's one or two things, maybe it's a bit of everything. We'll just have to wait and see, and that, yes, stresses me out. :confused: But it also gives me hope, I guess. Even Quincey can't kill hope.

Edited by Dabura

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I just don't get how the Islanders have won FOUR straight at the Joe and they are 7-1-1 in their last 9 games against the Wings. That s*** just boggles my mind.

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Just think of where we might be if we hadn't resigned Cleary!

Cleary definitely should not be on the roster. But I don't feel like he's one of the main reasons why we've been losing the games that we've been losing. We expected him to be a borderline fourth-liner, and that's pretty much what he's been. Sort of like an enforcer who doesn't enforce or even intimidate. He's just...there.

But Quincey, I believe he genuinely hurts this team with his all-around stupidity.

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Can someone do a fancy stats report on how many goals against and standings points Quincey has cost us this season? And maybe throw in Smith, since they're partners in crime.

I added it all up. He's been on the ice for 21 goals against this season. I think it's shockingly low, but I wouldn't be surprised if he screwed up a line change and allowed more goals than the stats indicate (a.k.a. "The Cleary Special")

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I added it all up. He's been on the ice for 21 goals against this season. I think it's shockingly low, but I wouldn't be surprised if he screwed up a line change and allowed more goals than the stats indicate (a.k.a. "The Cleary Special")

That's fewer than I'd thought. BUT, I think we'd have to go beyond just the number, not necessarily to suit my case against Quincey but because I'm actually genuinely interested. Like, How many of those 21 goals against were scored in very close losses? If the answer is not many, maybe Quincey really isn't all that bad for the team. Or maybe we just need higher quality statsification.

Maybe I'll look into it tomorrow.

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Wow. What a s*** show. The only butt pats I'm giving out tonight are to myself for schlepping my ass down there, standing at the east entrance in the dark for 15 minutes due to a power outage at the Joe, and not punching the douchebro next to me who literally did not stop talking the entire time I was in his presence.

*middle finger*

Merry ******* Christmas.

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Good on the Wings to show some genuine care and frustration as the game winded down by finishing every check hard and getting in the face of the Isles.

...oh..

To what end? The way to show you care is by outplaying your opponent from the off, not punching them in the face because they're better than you.

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That's fewer than I'd thought. BUT, I think we'd have to go beyond just the number, not necessarily to suit my case against Quincey but because I'm actually genuinely interested. Like, How many of those 21 goals against were scored in very close losses? If the answer is not many, maybe Quincey really isn't all that bad for the team. Or maybe we just need higher quality statsification.

Maybe I'll look into it tomorrow.

The other factor I forgot to consider is that power kill goals against do not count towards +/-, so it is probably much worse than this.

Another stat I would love to see, but would be hard to calculate, would be what is how many goals against occur when Quincey and Cleary are on the ice together? Quincey and Smith?

In terms questioning whether it's coincidence or if he is the problem, just watch him during the games. Next to Cleary he is the laziest player on the ice. I do not just mean he is slow. Quincey is lazy in every aspect of the game, failing to make plays, and relies heavily on his line-mates. He does everything really half-assed.

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So I get to see 1 game each year at the Joe when I go home for Christmas. And, hey, this was it this year. Not the best game to say the least.

Some observations:

They were with 5 D because of Big Rig's injury for half the game, but weirdly enough, the really bad defensive breakdowns came at the beginning when they were full strength.

Hate it when the home crowd boos. I think it just accomplishes nothing. It's a lot of young player that need confidence and the support from fans.

Lots of shots from the perimeter, but not enough forcing pressure in the slot.

Dats really didn't get much support...44+13 often = success but the equation wasn't right tonight

Helm's my fav...thought he was supposed to be back...damn

Was really excited to see Mrazek, but didn't work out great for him

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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To what end? The way to show you care is by outplaying your opponent from the off, not punching them in the face because they're better than you.

Well said. I've never really understood that mentality. I get wanting to show pride and all that, but my impression - from watching and playing - is that it tends to make you look even more pathetic. You got thrashed, yo. Play hard to close it out, but don't throw a tantrum like the Anaheim Ducks are known to do (unless you're doing it on an internet forum after the fact!)

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I can't remember exactly who it was but on NHL radio earlier yesterday two former players were talking about games before chrismtas. One stated "he really couldn't get into the game because his mind was so jacked to see family, some cases being the only time in a year. So, and it's probably not what fans want to here before some games, but I believe most players are that way."

The show was on about 930-1000 but I didn't catch who was talking.

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I added it all up. He's been on the ice for 21 goals against this season. I think it's shockingly low, but I wouldn't be surprised if he screwed up a line change and allowed more goals than the stats indicate (a.k.a. "The Cleary Special")

Don`t know how you got to this number, but according to behindthenet.ca he was on the ice for 27 even strength GA and 9 PK GA in 36 games. Add 3 EV GA from the Islanders, 2 EV GA from the Leafs, and 1 PK GA from the Flames game and you get a total number of 32 EV GA and 10 PK GA, ahead of Kronwall (27 EV, 8 PK) and Andersson (24 EV, 10 PK) by a great margin, considering his low offensive input. I think it`s safe to say this guy is poison.

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I can't remember exactly who it was but on NHL radio earlier yesterday two former players were talking about games before chrismtas. One stated "he really couldn't get into the game because his mind was so jacked to see family, some cases being the only time in a year. So, and it's probably not what fans want to here before some games, but I believe most players are that way."

The show was on about 930-1000 but I didn't catch who was talking.

That's why choose your games wisely. When in the West I'd never go see a game after time they came back because most of the time they lose and before the holidays.

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Two wins in a row with Tootoo, Tootoo goes down back to GR, big fat ugly loss. babcock should try Tootoo in front of the net in the same way Homer/Dino were used by Scotty.

WHY IS CLEARY STILL ON THE ICE? He is ok in the defensive zone, absolutely lousy in the offensive zone. Quincey /Smith are still struggling. Some of their struggles are due to the forwards not back checking well (or fore checking), but come on, just get into your position already and stop trying to do to much. Bert was awful last night too!

Sit Quincey for Kindl. With Ericsson out, bring up Sproul (if they can with cap limitations and all). ryan-miller-on-jordin-tootoo-o.gif

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