Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) After looking at the correct stats(still Kip if in one of our many arguments actually showed the nhl stats this could've been corrected a long time ago, nothing like arguing and never stating/linking stats). My top three defenseman still stay the same it's just now smith and dekeyser are switched. Which actually really surprised me. Many others, my self included, have often said dekeyser was more of a defensive guy. But he actually isn't based on those 5 on 5 stats. Or the goals per minute played stat(thanks for inventing this kip I'll use it regularly now). Based on the eye test(I could be wrong) I believe our defense to forwards passing is much improved this year as well. Which is why I'll continue to support my stance on that our defense and goaltending is fine. And the offense has been and will continue to be our biggest issue moving forward. I've been saying this for a couple years and I'll continue to say it. The biggest thing the defense needs to Improve on is scoring goals. Whether it's taking More one timers or something else I'm not sure. But they need to score a few more goals. We need a guy like Tatars mindset(shoot shoot shoot) but that can actually score 35+ a year. Edited November 6, 2014 by DeGraa55 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Id do that trade as well but I don't think coyotes would. Also forwards are the biggest issue so trading away Tatar might be the smartest. First of all since you're an idiot it's "too dumb". Second you clearly can't properly read the link I posted. So if I'm "to dumb". What's that make you? LOL Dumb enough to use that site lol oh and a grammar nazi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Edited November 6, 2014 by e_prime 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,527 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) After looking at the correct stats(still Kip if in one of our many arguments actually showed the nhl stats this could've been corrected a long time ago, nothing like arguing and never stating/linking stats). Lol. Sure. And in the future I'll just debate hockey with myself since between the two of us I'm the only one who thought to look up disputed stats on the official NHL website rather than relying on some tertiary source and then sticking with it (obstinately) after the veracity of the stats was called into question. And since it's my job to make sure you've got correct information before spewing your point of view forth, here's a helpful tip for future arguments: Don't use unofficial data if you don't want to be wrong. Everybody knows that. Now you do to. Edited November 6, 2014 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Lets be honest -- The eyeball test, your favorite players, and hated players all factor into the hows and whys of who and what we want for our team, but lets use the information that's available too. WE'RE IN THE AGE OF ANALYTICS! It's all out there to be had. Just make sure you use legit sources. Simple as that. Some folks wouldn't trade Smith for anything. Some wouldn't trade Jurco or Tatar. Hell, some of us are still lamenting the Calle Jarnkrok trade... it's why we're here. To talk about the team we love. Good or bad. Also, kip... if you're the President of the "Kindl4Prez" fanclub, can I at least be the treasurer. If he could just reign in the mistakes a bit, his value could be... well, at least decent. Edited November 6, 2014 by e_prime 2 kipwinger and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Can Jurco still go to GR? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Kindl will be a "solid" D-man on LGW by this time next year. Then we'll all hate him again after a bad pass at some point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,527 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Lets be honest -- The eyeball test, your favorite players, and hated players all factor into the hows and whys of who and what we want for our team, but lets use the information that's available too. WE'RE IN THE AGE OF ANALYTICS! It's all out there to be had. Just make sure you use legit sources. Simple as that. Some folks wouldn't trade Smith for anything. Some wouldn't trade Jurco or Tatar. Hell, some of us are still lamenting the Calle Jarnkrok trade... it's why we're here. To talk about the team we love. Good or bad. Also, kip... if you're the President of the "Kindl4Prez" fanclub, can I at least be the treasurer. If he could just reign in the mistakes a bit, his value could be... well, at least decent. Well don't misunderstand me. I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded. He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids. Can Jurco still go to GR? Yes. He's still got minor league options. Kindl will be a "solid" D-man on LGW by this time next year. Then we'll all hate him again after a bad pass at some point. If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year. Catch-22. 2 krsmith17 and e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Well don't misunderstand me. I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded. He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids. Yes. He's still got minor league options. If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year. Catch-22. I was mostly thinking about how much everyone used to dislike Ericsson, then he suddenly became a solid blue liner in LGWs eyes once Lids left. Now he's become slightly disliked again. 1 kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Well don't misunderstand me. I'm the President of his fan club only inasmuch as I want him to do well enough to get traded. He's not a terrible third pairing defenseman but he gets paid too much and I really like some of those kids. Yes. He's still got minor league options. If Kindl plays good enough for LGW to call him "solid" he'll be on another team next year. Catch-22. Trust me. I only want the treasurer's job as a temp spot. I'm in the same club as you. I think we've got a plethora of middling third pair defensemen. Ship Kindl off to Edmonton or somewhere else players won't typically go. He's signed at a reasonable price for some of those teams for another two years (?) Hudler's been okay off the Wings. Same with Flip. I can't and won't lament the fact that they're no longer Wings, in the same way that I can't and won't obsess about how prospects that we've traded away are doing. Does it sometimes suck when the player turns out to be great... or is it simply that they're flourishing in a different system/actually given an opportunity. It's the way the business side of the game works. Simple. As. That. I was mostly thinking about how much everyone used to dislike Ericsson, then he suddenly became a solid blue liner in LGWs eyes once Lids left. Now he's become slightly disliked again. Ericsson isn't having the greatest of starts, but he's not as bad as some like to moan about. 2 kipwinger and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,527 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Trust me. I only want the treasurer's job as a temp spot. I'm in the same club as you. I think we've got a plethora of middling third pair defensemen. Ship Kindl off to Edmonton or somewhere else players won't typically go. He's signed at a reasonable price for some of those teams for another two years (?) Hudler's been okay off the Wings. Same with Flip. I can't and won't lament the fact that they're no longer Wings, in the same way that I can't and won't obsess about how prospects that we've traded away are doing. Does it sometimes suck when the player turns out to be great... or is it simply that they're flourishing in a different system/actually given an opportunity. It's the way the business side of the game works. Simple. As. That. Ericsson isn't having the greatest of starts, but he's not as bad as some like to moan about. I agree. I said the same thing about Kindl and Smith the other day to krsmith. I think they would both be much better under a different coach's system. Babs doesn't want guys who wheel and deal and both those guys have skill sets conducive to a run and gun style of play. Babs wants guys like Lids, Kronwall, and Rafalski who are all smart, heads up, defensemen who add offense through point shots and great passing. Not Kind or Smith's game. 2 e_prime and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 I agree. I said the same thing about Kindl and Smith the other day to krsmith. I think they would both be much better under a different coach's system. Babs doesn't want guys who wheel and deal and both those guys have skill sets conducive to a run and gun style of play. Babs wants guys like Lids, Kronwall, and Rafalski who are all smart, heads up, defensemen who add offense through point shots and great passing. Not Kind or Smith's game. The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing. 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing. Truth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,527 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 The flip side of this is that a guy like Ericsson probably looks terrible playing D for a team like Toronto. Babcock's system may stunt player's offensive numbers, but it's probably helped win a few Selke's and made average defensemen good enough to play on the top pairing. I agree. But that's part of the problem isn't it? Making average guys "look" good. Does anybody remember when Ian White was Lidstrom's partner, and everybody kept commenting that White "looks" like a top pairing guy when playing next to Lids? It was true, he "looked" fine. Trouble was, Ian White ISN'T a top pairing defenseman. And when the rubber hits the road he's going to play like a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy instead of a top pairing guy because that's what he is. He didn't become better by playing with Lidstrom. He mistakes were just less harmful. That's the by-product of Babs' system. It can make Ericsson "look" like a number 2 defenseman. It can make Darren Helm "look" like a top six forward. And we all forget that ideally you don't want that. Babs' system can make underachievers competitive sure. But what happens when you run up against a team that's just as competitive, and has the right players in the right positions? You get spanked. Because an average player is an average player. Mind you, none if that is Babs' fault. He plays with what he's got. If KH wants average top four defense play, he should keep the top four he has now. If he wants above average play, he needs better defensemen. 1 sjr2012 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Can Jurco still go to GR? And take his Tootoo-like production numbers with him? I sure hope so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) An almost pure offensive defensemen might be the shot in the arm our forwards need. Give them a more pressing and aggressive approach to their game. Our whole team is pretty much 2-way. Nobody with an offence first mentality. This roster has the tools to be scoring a lot more Guys like Smith making mistakes that are goals against is a lot harder to forgive on a count of him contributing 0 offence. Also, teams that have high goals for per game don't do it without major contributions from the blue line. It's just not possible Edited November 7, 2014 by joesuffP 1 canadian wings fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjr2012 439 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) I agree. But that's part of the problem isn't it? Making average guys "look" good. Does anybody remember when Ian White was Lidstrom's partner, and everybody kept commenting that White "looks" like a top pairing guy when playing next to Lids? It was true, he "looked" fine. Trouble was, Ian White ISN'T a top pairing defenseman. And when the rubber hits the road he's going to play like a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy instead of a top pairing guy because that's what he is. He didn't become better by playing with Lidstrom. He mistakes were just less harmful. That's the by-product of Babs' system. It can make Ericsson "look" like a number 2 defenseman. It can make Darren Helm "look" like a top six forward. And we all forget that ideally you don't want that. Babs' system can make underachievers competitive sure. But what happens when you run up against a team that's just as competitive, and has the right players in the right positions? You get spanked. Because an average player is an average player. Mind you, none if that is Babs' fault. He plays with what he's got. If KH wants average top four defense play, he should keep the top four he has now. If he wants above average play, he needs better defensemen. this Edited November 8, 2014 by sjr2012 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjr2012 439 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) we def need better d in the future id see about moving kindl smith helm to ari for yandle Edited November 8, 2014 by sjr2012 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,477 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 we def need better d in the future id see about moving kindl smith helm to ari for yandle Lol. That would NOT get us yandle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 Lines at today's practice: Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive 17m 17 minutes ago Lines: Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen Tatar-Sheahan-Abdelkader Nestrasil-Helm-Cleary Miller-Glendening-Andersson Jurco-Weiss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canadian wings fan 305 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 Haha Cleary inching his way up the lineup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 Lines at today's practice: Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive 17m 17 minutes ago Lines: Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen Tatar-Sheahan-Abdelkader Nestrasil-Helm-Cleary Miller-Glendening-Andersson Jurco-Weiss I wish they'd either put Jurco in or send him back down, what are they doing with him? 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive 1m 1 minute ago Quincey ready to return Sunday vs. Tampa Bay. Howard is starting in goal. Said he was late for practice due to "little trouble with alarm." 1 marcaractac reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 Uh oh looks like jimmy will be traded. No word on dats? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted November 8, 2014 Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive 1m 1 minute ago Quincey ready to return Sunday vs. Tampa Bay. Howard is starting in goal. Said he was late for practice due to "little trouble with alarm." Great news! Also seems Weiss is feeling better and he expects to be good to go by Friday. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites