krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Green costs more in cap but would certainly cost a lot less in assets for the reason you stated, he in not under contract, and I'm quite okay with that. We have some prospects that we need to make room for over the next couple years and I think Sproul will fill a huge void in the not so distant future... Also, my point was that Yandle isn't good defensively and Green isn't any worse, not that he is better. And the fact that he has played less minutes, is not their number one defenseman (which by the way, neither would be here either) and has put up virtually the same points, shouldn't that be a positive?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Green costs more in cap but would certainly cost a lot less in assets for the reason you stated, he in not under contract, and I'm quite okay with that. We have some prospects that we need to make room for over the next couple years and I think Sproul will fill a huge void in the not so distant future... Also, my point was that Yandle isn't good defensively and Green isn't any worse, not that he is better. And the fact that he has played less minutes, is not their number one defenseman (which by the way, neither would be here either) and has put up virtually the same points, shouldn't that be a positive?... First of all, I disagree that Yandle isn't good defensively. You've used plus/minus as your only evidence of such and then covered up for it by saying "I don't put stock in it"...right after you put stock in it. If he's bad defensively for his -23 season then he's a stud defensively for his +16 season a few years earlier. It's a bad stat. What I do know is that Dave Tippet is one of the best coaches in the league and values defensively responsible players. If Yandle is playing 26 minutes a night in Tippets system there's no way he's a liability defensively. The second part, points per game, is a little early to tell based on a ten game sample size. But it's safe to say that either of them (Green or Yandle) are considerable upgrades offensively over anybody on our blue line so it's not really a point worth contending. For all intents and purposes they're similar players in most ways. And it will probably not shock you to know that I'd trade Brendan Smith for Mike Green (provided he would sign an extension immediately) as well. I will acknowledge that in my original scenario, trading Smith and Helm for Yandle is probably a little bit of an overpayment. But keep in mind I was "acquiring" Semin too and needed the cap space. All in all I would have no problem losing Helm, Smith, a 1st, and Pulkkinen to obtain Yandle (Green a little less based on injury history) and Semin. Especially since I'd be able to keep all my defensive prospects, young forwards, and Mrazek. I get that you wouldn't. I'm ok with disagreeing on this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Lol ok let's just agree to disagree. Partly because I'm sick of discussing this Smith thing with you and partly because I'm on my way to the pub for a few beers to prime for the big game. Go Wings! I expect a big win tonight and Smith to double his point total for the season with a goal and an assist..... 1 kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 I have no problem with Helm as a winger on the 2nd or 3rd line. Realistically he has all the tools to do what Abby does he just can't for whatever reason. The real key is keeping Jurco and Sheahan as 3rd liners. Split up Z and D, put them back if our offense fizzles. We don't have the luxury of playing two elite centers on the same line Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UpstateNYRedWingsFan 42 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 I'd like to see Franzen get a crack at being the 2nd line C with Nyquist and Tatar on the wings. 2 Wingsfan72 and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 If I had to guess (considering Cleary and Nestrasil are IN tonight) Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen Tatar-Datsyuk-Abdelkader Nestrasil-Sheahan-Helm Miller-Glendening-Cleary It's..... something Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 965 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 For tonight Nyquist-zetterberg-cleary Franzen-datsyuk-cleary Tatar-sheahan-cleary Abby-helm-cleary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 Gross Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted November 5, 2014 UPDATE: Dan Cleary will make his season debut tonight, replacing Tomas Jurco; Nesty is also in for Andersson Cleary in for Jurco, not Andy. Gotta love the way they decided to phrase it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Cleary better go out and hit everything that moves 1 canadian wings fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Cleary better go out and hit everything that movesWho do you think he is, Brian mcgrattan? 2 e_prime and GMRwings1983 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Most of our defensemen do struggle to produce consistent offense. Other than Kronwall. Wait, is that not obvious to you? Also, don't be childish. I don't "hate" Brendan Smith. I don't know the guy. But like I said above about Semin, to me professional athletes are nothing more that a collection of skill sets. Brendan is a great skater and he's a physically tough guy. Both of those will serve him well in the defensive part of the game. But he's a bad passer and doesn't have a great point shot, which isn't conducive to NHL scoring. Also, "5 on 5 with the least amount of ice time"? Did you just invent the "Even Strength Points Per Minute" stat? That's absurd. Stop putting words into someone's mouth. That's the literally all you ever do.Second the stat is 5 on 5 points. I threw in that he also had the least amount of time of the guys who actually scored(but dekeyser a did have a tad less and Ericsson was hurt so I was wrong). But it still doesn't change the FACT that smith had the most 5 on 5 points. Stop remember half the things you want to. And stop changing and adding things to what people say. Since you've never actually looked up stats here I'll help you out: Smith: 1169 TOI4 goals 15 assist Kronwall: 1306 TOI 3 goals 15 assist Quincey: 1408 TOI 4 goals 8 assist Dekeyser: 1073 TOI 2 goals 10 assist Kindl: 953 TOI 2 goals 9 assist Ericsson: 797 TOI 1 goal 9 assist http://www.stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=11&pos=skaters&minutes=100&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC Also YOUR MADE UP stat of points per minute actually helps me out as well. Of our six defenseman smith had the highest points per minute. So come up with more stats on your own so I can embarass you more. Or just be normal and look at standard stats LIKE 5 on 5 which smith was the BEST defenseman. Edited November 6, 2014 by DeGraa55 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Stop putting words into someone's mouth. That's the literally all you ever do. Second the stat is 5 on 5 points. I threw in that he also had the least amount of time of the guys who actually scored(but dekeyser a did have a tad less and Ericsson was hurt so I was wrong). But it still doesn't change the FACT that smith had the most 5 on 5 points. Stop remember half the things you want to. And stop changing and adding things to what people say. Since you've never actually looked up stats here I'll help you out: Smith: 1169 TOI4 goals 15 assist Kronwall: 1306 TOI 3 goals 15 assist Quincey: 1408 TOI 4 goals 8 assist Dekeyser: 1073 TOI 2 goals 10 assist Kindl: 953 TOI 2 goals 9 assist Ericsson: 797 TOI 1 goal 9 assist http://www.stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=11&pos=skaters&minutes=100&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC Also YOUR MADE UP stat of points per minute actually helps me out as well. Of our six defenseman smith had the highest points per minute. So come up with more stats on your own so I can embarass you more. Or just be normal and look at standard stats LIKE 5 on 5 which smith was the BEST defenseman. Might want to use something a little more reliable than whatever website that is. Here's the NHL's stats. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?gameType=2&position=D&season=20132014&sort=points&status=A&team=DET&viewName=summary Kronwall: 23 even strength points Smith: 18 even strength points Dekeyser: 18 even strength points And since Dekeyser played fewer even strength minutes, what do you think that does to your silly stat? I know it's hard to admit you're wrong. It is for everybody. But Smith didn't score the most 5 on 5 points per minute, per game, per year, decade, century, or millenia. He just didn't. You keep trying to make a point that can't be made. And sadly you've reverted to using made up stats and faulty websites as evidence. Pathetic. Here's a 100% factually true statement. Brendan Smith didn't lead our defense in any scoring category. None. Not one. Get over it. Edited November 6, 2014 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Stop putting words into someone's mouth. That's the literally all you ever do. Second the stat is 5 on 5 points. I threw in that he also had the least amount of time of the guys who actually scored(but dekeyser a did have a tad less and Ericsson was hurt so I was wrong). But it still doesn't change the FACT that smith had the most 5 on 5 points. Stop remember half the things you want to. And stop changing and adding things to what people say. Since you've never actually looked up stats here I'll help you out: Smith: 1169 TOI4 goals 15 assist Kronwall: 1306 TOI 3 goals 15 assist Quincey: 1408 TOI 4 goals 8 assist Dekeyser: 1073 TOI 2 goals 10 assist Kindl: 953 TOI 2 goals 9 assist Ericsson: 797 TOI 1 goal 9 assist http://www.stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=11&pos=skaters&minutes=100&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC Also YOUR MADE UP stat of points per minute actually helps me out as well. Of our six defenseman smith had the highest points per minute. So come up with more stats on your own so I can embarass you more. Or just be normal and look at standard stats LIKE 5 on 5 which smith was the BEST defenseman. I'm fortunate to have access to media.nhl.com per a friend. I use this for all my stats because it's the most extensive stat tracking out there and is exclusive to the media and is what they use. I don't know that you're looking at but you're flat 100% wrong. Smith had 77.57 minutes more even strength time last season than DK did. And yet each had 18 ES points. Be man and accept that you're wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 I'm fortunate to have access to media.nhl.com per a friend. I use this for all my stats because it's the most extensive stat tracking out there and is exclusive to the media and is what they use. I don't know that you're looking at but you're flat 100% wrong. Smith had 77.57 minutes more even strength time last season than DK did. And yet each had 18 ES points. Be man and accept that you're wrong. Ya I see that. I wanna know why that site has wrong stats now. Would've been A LOT easier of Kip would've actually used stats one if the ten times this argument has came up. So I'm half wrong. Not my fault the site has wrong information. I'd use nhl.com but it's do damn unorganized. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Ya I see that. I wanna know why that site has wrong stats now. Would've been A LOT easier of Kip would've actually used stats one if the ten times this argument has came up. So I'm half wrong. Not my fault the site has wrong information. I'd use nhl.com but it's do damn unorganized. No you're not half wrong. You're 100% wrong. I'm looking at NHL.com stats right now and, though they are slightly different, they still support the fact that Kip is 100% correct and you are 100% incorrect lol this comical at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 No you're not half wrong. You're 100% wrong. I'm looking at NHL.com stats right now and, though they are slightly different, they still support the fact that Kip is 100% correct and you are 100% incorrect lol this comical at this point. No, how is it my fault the sites that are typically better provided me with wrong information? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Nomnomnomnom 2 kipwinger and number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 No, how is it my fault the sites that are typically better provided me with wrong information Like I already said, I'm looking at the sites you cited and they didn't provide wrong information at all. You're either to dumb to understand them or you lied lol. 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,476 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Like I already said, I'm looking at the sites you cited and they didn't provide wrong information at all. You're either to dumb to understand them or you lied lol. Actually the site he linked had the exact info he said it did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Actually the site he linked had the exact info he said it did. NHL.com? That site suggested exactly what Kip was saying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,476 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 NHL.com? That site suggested exactly what Kip was saying no, this site. http://www.stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=11&pos=skaters&minutes=100&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC I am not saying you're wrong about the stats, just that he may have been mislead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 no, this site. http://www.stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=11&pos=skaters&minutes=100&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC I am not saying you're wrong about the stats, just that he may have been mislead Correct. And I apologize for basing my "facts" off that site which are clearly wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Coyotes need scoring. It hurts to suggest this but Tatar+Helm+Kindl for Yandle??? Bring back Alfie, get a winger at the deadline. Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen Abby-Datsyuk-Semin (can't think of somebody right now) Jurco-Sheahan-Alfie Miller-Glendening-Cleary Kronwall-Ericsson Yandle-Dekeseyer Smith-Quincey I don't see where Helm fits on this team when we eventually don't have gaping holes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted November 6, 2014 Coyotes need scoring. It hurts to suggest this but Tatar+Helm+Kindl for Yandle??? Bring back Alfie, get a winger at the deadline. Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen Abby-Datsyuk-Semin (can't think of somebody right now) Jurco-Sheahan-Alfie Miller-Glendening-Cleary Kronwall-Ericsson Yandle-Dekeseyer Smith-Quincey I don't see where Helm fits on this team when we eventually don't have gaping holes Id do that trade as well but I don't think coyotes would. Also forwards are the biggest issue so trading away Tatar might be the smartest. Like I already said, I'm looking at the sites you cited and they didn't provide wrong information at all. You're either to dumb to understand them or you lied lol. First of all since you're an idiot it's "too dumb". Second you clearly can't properly read the link I posted. So if I'm "to dumb". What's that make you? LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
