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(Again, I fully understand The Plan. I get over-ripening as a development strategy, I've defended it a number of times. I just don't think Jurco needs the four-year apprenticeship. I don't think he needs much more - if any - time below. I think there's also a need on our team for a big, physical guy with hands and natural scoring ability. How many guys do we have like that? Franzen is big, but he's not especially physical. Abdelkader has no hands. We're not signing key free agents and we don't have much quality talent beyond our core players, so we can't necessarily afford to keep all our prospects down as long as we normally would.)

Jurco's AHL stint at the moment is less than 1 and a half seasons. I don't think he needs 4 years either, but how about 2? 2 and a half even? We are in a situation where we have a log jam at forward, and where young guys (also good players) are going to be exposed to waivers even if Jurco goes to the minors. Starting the season with him on the roster only uneededly exposes more players to waivers.

I am not willing to ship out Callahan for nothing just because a kid scored 15 pts in 36 games last season and somehow that earned him a spot in that short of a time. That's a very small sample size of games, with very moderate results, to have solidified a spot with the big boys. I don't think he at all gets priority over guys like Glendening or Callahan at this stage of his career.

Glendening is 4 years Jurco's senior and has proven to be effective in his time with the wings as well. Callahan has also shown tremendous promise and is 2 years Jurco's senior. It's now or never for those two. They deserve their shots. Jurco can wait for the first string of injuries to roll through.

Edited by number9

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Glendening has shown that his hard work has made him a borderline NHL player. Jurco showed a good combination of speed size and ability and despite his defensive issues at times he deserves an NHL spot. Callahan has shown he's a good ahl role player.

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Glendening has shown that his hard work has made him a borderline NHL player. Jurco showed a good combination of speed size and ability and despite his defensive issues at times he deserves an NHL spot. Callahan has shown he's a good ahl role player.

The 4th line can be just as crucial as the top line. See: Grind Line.

15 points in 36 gp does not make you a bonafide NHL player by any means.

So bc Callahan has never had a shot at the NHL he's just a good AHL role player? You don't know what he's got till you play him. He was 2nd among Griffins in goals. He's no scrub. This is a business. Starting Jurco is definition poor asset management.

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Is Jurco even 200lbs yet?

Nope.

Callahan is 3 lbs lighter, but also 2 inches shorter.

Glendening is 3 inches shorter but 7 lbs heavier. Built like a football player.

Jurco is listed at 193 6 ft 2 btw. How recent that is I have no idea.

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It's not a question of keeping Jurco down for those guys, it's a philosophy of getting him used to being the go-to guy first in GR, being the main man, the one we count on day in and day out to bring the rain, to pick up the bar tab when the game is on the line-"Guys, I got it".

Once he's played that role , with that mentality, long enough in GR, it will be more possible to develop that mentality in the nhl.

Edited by T.Low

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It's not a question of keeping Jurco down for those guys, it's a philosophy of getting him used to being the go-to guy first in GR, being the main man, the one we count on day in and day out to bring the rain, to pick up the bar tab when the game is on the line-"Guys, I got it".

Once he's played that role , with that mentality, long enough in GR, it will be more possible to develop that mentality in the nhl.

wait... o one told me he was picking up the bar tab... why have I been paying for my own beer?

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wait... o one told me he was picking up the bar tab... why have I been paying for my own beer?

That will teach you to check in with lgw at least once a day.

However...I'm not convinced he's quite that guy.

Edited by T.Low

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Again, I agree with number9 100%. Jurco should and WILL start the season in Grand Rapids for so many different reasons. Why is this still being debated?...

GoWings1905, you absolutely do keep Jurco down for players like Glendening and Callahan if he is the only one of the three that is not waiver exempt. Glendening is a great shut down guy and has the potential to be a great 4th liner in this league for a long time. Callahan has only played one NHL game so far but has been great down in the minors. These two players are both the guys you want to go to war with, they will put it all on the line every single game and every single shift. Like number9 said, 4th line role players are just as important to the makeup of a team as your top line scorers. These are the guys you need to shut down the oppositions top lines every night and both have the potential to be great shut down guys.

I think Callahan has the potential to be somewhat in the mold of a Brad Marchand or Andrew Shaw. Ask those two teams how important those guys are to their teams success...

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There are hundreds of Luke Glendening's floating around the league. Hell, Joakim Andersson probably brings more to the table.

You don't keep Jurco down for Glendening or Callahan. Those are fringe NHL players.

Na, there's actually only one Glendening in the league.

I like Luker way more than Andersson thus far.

Jurco was a fringe NHL player this time last year too. And again, he won't be on the opening day roster this year either.

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I think the whole Jurco vs Callahan thing right here and why some view Jurco to get preferential treatment even though he's spent less time in the minors is simply the fact (IMO) that he got called up, took the job and ran with it. I think we'd be talking about a different situation right now if Jurco had been called up, played like Ferraro did, and then didn't get another shot. Then maybe Callahan would have got more than just his one game cup of coffee, and maybe he would have seized the opportunity.

Quite simply, Jurco got an opportunity and showed he could play in the NHL. If Callahan had got the same opportunity would he have been able to do just that? Who knows. I hope Callahan turns out to be a key forward on the 4th line for the Wings for years to come, but right now, it's Jurco that has shown he can at least play in the NHL. Callahan's turn will come, and when that happens, he'll have to make the most of it.

Sometimes its just how the cookie crumbles. But, I agree to an extent that it wouldn't hurt Jurco to play the year in GR, and he will get recalled at some point. On the other hand, the Wings have basically created this roster log jam at forward. Cleary didn't have to come back, nor Alfie (although I will be happy if he returns), and we've got either Andersson or Glendening who IMO one of which is expendable (my money's on Andersson, Glendening brings a different style of game that we need more of - like Callahan).

If Jurco starts the year in the NHL, I'll be happy. But if (as is most likely to happen), he starts in GR, then I'll be happy too. It gives him more time to grow his game and develop into a better scoring and defensive forward so that this time next year when he'll be on the roster from the start (most likely) he'll be maturer and ready to carry a good chunk of the load.

Edited by wings4thecup06

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Na, there's actually only one Glendening in the league.

I like Luker way more than Andersson thus far.

Jurco was a fringe NHL player this time last year too. And again, he won't be on the opening day roster this year either.

I prefer Andersson out of the two, but both are expendable in reality. The Wings are already set up the middle with Weiss back, so I don't really see where Andersson or Glendening fit into the picture without injuries.

Jurco was a fringe NHL player because he wasn't even 21 years old and then he proved during his time that he was good enough to stay. Glendening, Andersson and Callahan are fringe NHL players because none of them possess a skill set that is anything special to warrant an every day roster spot. Skill isn't the question with Jurco -- he held his own in a third line role and has immense talent to continue developing against quality competition.

My argument has nothing to do with whether Jurco will make the team. That status was pretty much cemented by Cleary, maybe Alfie and the previously mentioned guys. My stance is that Jurco should be playing for the Red Wings regardless of his Grand Rapids option, the "logjam" at forward or whatever other reason people use for sending him down.

Some agree more with Holland's overripe strategy and that's fine. I do think it has its merits at times and has worked before. However, I do believe it should be on a case-by-case basis instead of this overriding philosophical organizational belief that we cling to no matter what. Sending Jurco down "just because you can" is silly and a cop out to keep lesser players around that don't help the team win now or in the future. It's not like the Red Wings are this juggernaut championship contender anymore where they can afford to stash young talent in the minors.

Edited by GoWings1905

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This is interesting....

With a logjam at centermen, #RedWings Mike Babcock said today that he plans to start Darren Helm at wing on Pavel Datsyuk's line.

So:

Z - Datsyuk - Helm

Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist

Tatar - Sheahan - Alfie?

Abby - Glendening - Miller

Scratch - Andersson, Cleary

Edited by wings4thecup06

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This is interesting....

KGrJA56V_normal.jpegThe Wheel Deal @Bill_Roose[/size] · 1h

With a logjam at centermen, #RedWings Mike Babcock said today that he plans to start Darren Helm at wing on Pavel Datsyuk's line.

So:

Z - Datsyuk - Helm

Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist

Tatar - Sheahan - Alfie?

Abby - Glendening - Miller

Scratch - Andersson, Cleary

Hmm...could actually work.

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Why don't we just have an entire team full of two way centers of varying degrees of effectiveness and then we can play them at every position?

"And starting in goal, number 8, Justiiiiiiiin Abdelkadeeeeeeeer!"

No kidding. You knew Babs would somehow find a way to keep his boy Glendening at center on the 4th line. Bergeron and Krejci are scared s***less having to face his "grit" and defensive prowess.

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

This is interesting....

KGrJA56V_normal.jpegThe Wheel Deal @Bill_Roose · 1h

With a logjam at centermen, #RedWings Mike Babcock said today that he plans to start Darren Helm at wing on Pavel Datsyuk's line.

So:

Z - Datsyuk - Helm

Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist

Tatar - Sheahan - Alfie?

Abby - Glendening - Miller

Scratch - Andersson, Cleary

LOL people were mad about Abby up there? My god helm is an even worse idea with Abby. Look at the bright side? Helm will be injured quickly and jurco will then be called up!!!!

Edited by DeGraa55

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I think helm is under utilized on the 4th line. He can haul the piano better than Abby with his incredible speed. I like that babs is trying new things and I got no problem with helm playing with Z and D. Very defensively sound and helm's speed will create a ton of space

On that note sounds fantastic on paper but very crucial to stay healthy!

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I think helm is under utilized on the 4th line. He can haul the piano better than Abby with his incredible speed. I like that babs is trying new things and I got no problem with helm playing with Z and D. Very defensively sound and helm's speed will create a ton of space

On that note sounds fantastic on paper but very crucial to stay healthy!

That's what Babs figured when he saw that video of Helm hauling Tootoos wife on water skis..

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Imagine if Helm can pot close to 30 goals playing with Z and Dats (which isn't totally unreasonable if they can form chemistry) We will have an incredible asset that is one of the fastest in the NHL, physical and on an amazing contract. We have a log jam at center he could be part of a solid trade for top tier talent

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I love Darren Helm, but he has shown nothing to indicate being a 30 goal scorer. I think 20 goals even with the Euro Twins would be a little high. Helm just doesn't have the hands or finishing touch to capitalize consistently on all of the scoring chances his speed creates. I think it's a toss up as to who is more inept offensively between Abby or Helm.

Babs is somewhat handcuffed by the personnel Holland has given him, but he keeps trying to force square pegs into round holes with certain players. Helm and Abby should have similar roles on the 3rd/4th line. It isn't fair to them or the team to ask something out of them that they just aren't cut out for as players.

Edited by GoWings1905

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