• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Dabura

Lines Thread

Rate this topic

1,507 posts in this topic

Zetterberg datsyuk jurco

Nyquist sheahan Franzen

Tatar helm abdelkader

Miller glendening nestrasil

I'd put jurco up on the top line for a few games with pav and hank in the hopes of getting him going .... We need to the kids to start producing

I think its best to see if Dats and Z can go solo I really want a Goose Z Franzen that line is sickTats Dats jurco would be good maybe Shehan Helm Abby for the 3rd and the 4th line is untouchable I still like my 1st choice but id be willing to see Jurco with Dats

Miller Glendening Andersson works don't change what doesn't need to be Nesterasil is not worth keeping up to me he needs to be waived no one will take him and if they do im not worried about it

Edited by sjr2012

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted to respond to the discussion of our 4th line in the GDT, but I figured here was more appropriate...

Anyway, I think the best 4th line we could put together would be Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader

Miller is really underappreciated around these parts, but he is a very durable, serviceable 4th line winger. He's never going to dazzle you, but he always makes the smart play. He's hard on the puck despite his thin frame and is very difficult to play against. He is a big reason our penalty kill has been perfect through 7 games (21 for 21), averaging 3:11 per game. He doesn't have any points yet but his main job is to shut down the opposition, the points will come. He has 11 shots on goal, 13 hits, 10 blocked shots, +2 giveaway/takeaway differential, and is an even +/-.

Glendening is starting to get more recognition around here but I still think he is undervalued. He has improved in the face-off circle immensely, from his underwhelming 48.5% last season to his stellar 59.8% (team best) so far this season. He's an in-your-face type of player that can really get under the oppositions skin, a guy every player loves to have on their team. Along with Miller, they are the two best penalty killers we have, Glendening averages 3:18 per game. He has one goal so far this season, but could have had many more, due to his speed and work ethic. He has 10 shots on goal, 10 hits, 5 blocked shots, +2 giveaway/takeaway differential, and is a +1.

Abdelkader, while playing surprisingly well in the top 6 right now, I still think he is a great 4th liner. He leads the team in hits by a wide margin with 23, has 3 blocked shots, and surprisingly doesn't have a single giveaway or takeaway through 7 games. Abby has 3 goals and 2 assists, 17 shots on goal and is a +3, he could be exactly what the 4th line needs to get some offense going. Hell, Glendening has 2 career NHL regular season goals and guess who had the primary assist on both goals? That's right, Abdelkader.

While Andersson has improved a hell of a lot since last season, I don't see him as a vital part of this team. To me he has just been out there munching up minutes, and while he has done a decent job at keeping the other team off the board, I think we have enough capable guys that he should be expendable. He has no points, and even +/-, 4 hits, 1 blocked shot, an even giveaway/takeaway differential and 7 shots on goal. To me that is not enough contribution, even from a 4th line guy. He has been solid on the penalty kill but not enough to warrant a roster spot in my opinion. We have Glendening, Miller, Abdelkader and Helm that can all kill penalties with the best of them, as well as other that could get the job done if called upon.

haroldsnepsts likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nyquist Zetterberg Franzen

Datsyuk Weiss Helm

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Glenny Abby

I was thinking about that too. Dats would help Weiss get his game going, but has he ever played wing?

The 2nd and 3rd are what we need to figure out. Tats-Dats-Jurcats is an interesting idea, but that would leave all of our #2-#3 centers (sheahan-Weiss-Helm) on a line together, which would be kind of funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many points does Helm have to not score on the wing before everybody realizes he's not good on the wing? If the fact that he blew about six scoring chances last night doesn't convince people that he can't take a pass, I don't know what will.

To reiterate. Helm. Is. f******. Terrible. On. The. Wing.

Terrible.

Edited by kipwinger
Internet.Unknown and sjr2012 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nyquist Zetterberg Franzen

Datsyuk Weiss Helm

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Glenny Abby

I was thinking about that too. Dats would help Weiss get his game going, but has he ever played wing?

The 2nd and 3rd are what we need to figure out. Tats-Dats-Jurcats is an interesting idea, but that would leave all of our #2-#3 centers (sheahan-Weiss-Helm) on a line together, which would be kind of funny.

I would prefer

Z D Helm

NyQ Weiss Franzen

But that all depends on Weiss being the 2c we hoped we were getting, and that's not happenned, so...

And, just as I predicted in other threads, tats Shea Jurco is an awesome 3rd line, but not ready yet to excell as a 2nd line. Keep them slotted 3rd line

NyQ Z Franzen has looked great, so keep them slotted 1st line.

Miller Glenny Andy has looked great as a fourth line shutdown, and Abby could slot right in for Andy. 4rth line.

Babcock has to play Weiss sooner or later. All the other lines are perfect where they are so force Weiss right where he was originally supposed to go. Helm will help pushing D back, and his puck retrieval has been downright astounding at times this season.

Datsyuk is smart enough to make the adjustment to wing, and instead of leading the play into the zone and having to always deal with everyone collapsing on him, can you imagine him trailing the play and exploiting the gaps! More open shots. And therefore, a move to wing may take all kinds of pressure off him physically and mentally, possibly keeping him healthier, fresher, extending his career.

With NyQ Weiss Franzen, I can see Franzen getting frustrated and giving up on Weiss, and NyQ never getting the puck when he's open, and that line never going anywhere.

But with D W H, Weiss could simplify, he and helm just work hard and Datsyuk can make the magic

happen.

NyQ Zetterberg Franzen

Datsyuk Weiss Helm

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Glendenning Abby/Andy

Edited by T.Low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon Kip, you can't actually believe that the reason Helm didn't capitalize on all those opportunities was because he was playing wing instead of center?... I would think if anything, he was able to generate so many of those chances because he was on the wing. His speed is his biggest asset and that is most on display on the boards where he is able to cheat a little on the breakouts rather than playing the middle of the ice... Just my opinion.

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many points does Helm have to not score on the wing before everybody realizes he's not good on the wing? If the fact that he blew about six scoring chances last night doesn't convince people that he can't take a pass, I don't know what will.

To reiterate. Helm. Is. f******. Terrible. On. The. Wing.

Terrible.

How many games has Helm play at wing? With Datsyuk out, I think he's been playing Center. I think that was his first game at wing, but I could be wrong. He had a really good game despite his inability to finish the many chances he got. I'm not saying he'll be good at wing, but your posts sounds like we tried him there again and again and again for years and years.

Unrelated, I found this gif of Carey Price coming up behind Helm and pushing his helmet over his eyes, Haha. I love the little agitating things like this that we usually miss in the games:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2014/10/21/7034021/carey-price-gently-caresses-darren-helm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon Kip, you can't actually believe that the reason Helm didn't capitalize on all those opportunities was because he was playing wing instead of center?... I would think if anything, he was able to generate so many of those chances because he was on the wing. His speed is his biggest asset and that is most on display on the boards where he is able to cheat a little on the breakouts rather than playing the middle of the ice... Just my opinion.

I think the reason he failed to capitalize on those chances is because he can't take a pass that's got any kind of zip on it. The kinds of passes that wingers have to deal with. The kinds of passes centers usually make.

How many games has Helm play at wing? With Datsyuk out, I think he's been playing Center. I think that was his first game at wing, but I could be wrong. He had a really good game despite his inability to finish the many chances he got. I'm not saying he'll be good at wing, but your posts sounds like we tried him there again and again and again for years and years.

Unrelated, I found this gif of Carey Price coming up behind Helm and pushing his helmet over his eyes, Haha. I love the little agitating things like this that we usually miss in the games:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2014/10/21/7034021/carey-price-gently-caresses-darren-helm

I hope we don't try him there again and again. He made it to the NHL as a center, not winger, for a reason. It's pretty rare that a guy makes it to the NHL at his second best position (maybe Byfuglien or Burns but that's about it). Everybody else is doing what they probably should be given how high the attrition rate for professional athletes is. So I guess my question is, if we need a winger, why are we trying him there at all? Let's just go get a winger. I don't understand the logic of turning a good center into an average winger (if you're lucky) just because you need a winger. If you've got so many centers running around trade one for a winger who can handle a pass or score on a breakaway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All NHL players should be able to take a hard pass, whether you're a center, winger or defenseman. I agree that wingers are maybe a little more likely to receive the hard passes on the breakout, but a center needs to be an option on that breakout as well. Besides, I don't think Helm is as bad as you're implying on receiving a pass. The puck was bouncing around everywhere last night, no one could get it to settle down. I seen Tatar and Nyquist both whiff on pass attempts numerous times last night, as well as other players on both sides.

Either way, you cannot attribute him being on the wing, to the reason he couldn't put the puck in the net last night or any night for that matter. Helm creates a lot of those chances with his speed. What was the reason he whiffed on that breakaway opportunity? He just has trouble finishing, plain and simple. If he could finish on just 20% of his chances, whether that be on the wing or center, he would be a much bigger threat.

haroldsnepsts likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of those scoring chances were earned by Helm. If Helm just learns to play smarter and not try and hold onto the puck too long he'll be much better. I thought Kindl looked great too. An average offensive defensemen in the league is going to have a turnover or two against good teams every team has them and right now Kindl's good instincts offensively outweigh his odd turnovers. Smith could learn a thing or two offensively from Kindl tbh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I think you're reaching with this whole - players shouldn't switch positions, they should stay at the position that they were drafted - mentality... Using Byfuglien and Burns as examples exemplifies that. It's a lot more tasking to switch from defense to forward or vice versa rather than from center to wing or vice versa. In saying that, we do have one on our current team (Ericsson) as well as a prospect (McKee) that have done that. But in my opinion, switching from center to wing is the easiest transition in the league. That is why you see so many players listed as C/LW or C/RW. I don't know the exact number of players in the league that were drafted to play center but are currently playing wing or vice versa, but I would be willing to bet the number would be somewhat surprising to you...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only complaint so far is that Tatar should get more ice time. Other than that, I like the decisions Babs had made. I think sitting Weiss has been the right move too.

T.Low likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree, Tatar has been getting plenty of ice time, 5th amongst Red Wing forwards (right around where he should be), behind Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen and Nyquist. Tatar hasn't impressed me a whole lot so far this season, he's a good player, but seems to be trying to do too much out there. He needs to simplify his game. Also, Weiss absolutely should be in the lineup, and I think he will be a mainstay by next month.

Internet.Unknown likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many points does Helm have to not score on the wing before everybody realizes he's not good on the wing? If the fact that he blew about six scoring chances last night doesn't convince people that he can't take a pass, I don't know what will.

To reiterate. Helm. Is. f******. Terrible. On. The. Wing.

Terrible.

Ahh I see what you're saying.

Dat z helm top line!!!!

/sarcasm

Couldn't agree more. People who say they have the ideal fourth are wrong unless helm is on it. That's where he belongs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I like Helm, one thing I have always noticed about him is it seems like his legs are too fast for his hands. I cant even count the amount of times he gets a break, and then seems to lose the puck and/or falls down.

Edited by kliq
krsmith17 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many points does Helm have to not score on the wing before everybody realizes he's not good on the wing? If the fact that he blew about six scoring chances last night doesn't convince people that he can't take a pass, I don't know what will.

To reiterate. Helm. Is. f******. Terrible. On. The. Wing.

Terrible.

I prefer are 4 C to be

Z

dats

H

glendening

Weiss to me should try the Wing but only Dats wing I think dats can get him going anyone else not so much

Edited by sjr2012

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of last nights goals exemplified Babcocks thinking.

Helm with Datsyuk because his awesome puck retrieval skills: Tied the game with an awesome goal.

Tatar not ready for more ice time: his mark scored while he was indisciplined, opened the door for the loss of the game.

This team has a pretty flat finish to it: not a makeup that can score consistently.

Tatar Sheahan Jurco, while a really cool line that we all love, obviously cannot/have not scored as a 2nd line. The only way they produce is as a 3 rd line.

jimmyemeryhunter likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt Pulkkinen is ready for 2nd line minutes but I really wish we could place him on a line with Abby and Datsyuk to play that Alfie role.

Once Franzen is back I'd like to see

Goose-Z-Franzen

Pulks-Datsyuk-Abby

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Miller-Helm-Glendening

#1PP

Z-Pav-Franzen

Kronwall-Smith

#2PP

Goose-Sheahan-Tatar

Dekeyser-Pulks

If those lines can't score idk what we're doing wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if posted yet: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/red_wings_search_for_solutions.html#incart_related_stories

Seems like Babs just doesn't even consider Smith for the PP. Pretty stubborn and it irks me that he won't just explain why. If it helps the team win and babcock isn't entertaining the idea then he has some serious problems.

I bothers me to, but I dont think Babcock owes the fans any type of explanation. What goes on behind the scenes, in the room etc. is team business. I don't want a coach that tell the media everything, that is not what's best for the team.

But, yes I agree Smith should get a chance on the PP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I worry Smith on PP is a short handed goal waiting to happen. #in behind the D

i don't see how babs putting fwds on the point is any more dangerous than smith. also even if that happened once or twice I'm sure smith would contribute more offence than the shorties we give up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0