• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Dabura

Lines Thread

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

It's not about putting your 3 best players on the first line, next 3 on the second line, etc. It's about balance, chemistry, and making sure that everyone has a job that they can do effectively. Datsyuk and/or Babcock likes having a bigger guy on Datsyuk's wing. Franzen, Ceary, Jurco, and Abdelkader qualify there. Franzen doesn't use his size a ton, Abdelkader has stone hands, and Cleary can't skate anymore. That leaves Jurco as the best option.

Cleary's contract pretty much guarantees that he will play in at least 10 games. At that point, they will have a cap hit of over $1.5 mil for the rest of the year if they bury him in GR, and if he retires instead he won't get the money. The only way they get out of the cap hit is if he gets hurt and sits on IR the rest of the season after getting his gift. That means someone is going to get waived who should probably be on the team over Cleary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about putting your 3 best players on the first line, next 3 on the second line, etc. It's about balance, chemistry, and making sure that everyone has a job that they can do effectively. Datsyuk and/or Babcock likes having a bigger guy on Datsyuk's wing. Franzen, Ceary, Jurco, and Abdelkader qualify there. Franzen doesn't use his size a ton, Abdelkader has stone hands, and Cleary can't skate anymore. That leaves Jurco as the best option.

100% agree. I chose my lines because I thought that Jurco's big body/hands would compliment D & Z on the first line. I chose Sheahan/Gus/Tatar because last year they showed good chemistry together. I chose Weiss/Franzen/Alfie because I thought starting the year on 3rd line would be good for Weiss after the year he had last year. Third line = low expectations and less pressure. Let him get his game back, and once back, put him back on second line. Franzen, I put in third line, hopefully as a motivator to get him back to playing like he is capable. Alfie, because third line is less minutes, and I think that will be good for him. If there are chemistry issues, then obviously you change things around. Forth line is pretty self explanatory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zetterberg Datsyuk Pulkinen

Nyquist Ryan Johansen Franzen

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Helm Abby

Glendening /Alfie

Z and D make magic again and Pulkinen snipes with his monster shot. Everyone on that 2nd line gets 35 goals. Third line takes another big step from last season to be one of the best 3rd lines in the nhl. 4 rth line is awesome.

Edited by T.Low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see Tatar-Sheahan-Alfredsson on the 3rd line. Keeps pressure off the younger kids, less wear and tear on the old man, and it has a 2 Kids and a Goat feel to it.

I would probably eventually go that route as well once Weiss gets going. Though with injuries, everything will change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see Tatar-Sheahan-Alfredsson on the 3rd line. Keeps pressure off the younger kids, less wear and tear on the old man, and it has a 2 Kids and a Goat feel to it.

My only problem with that is that it probably means Abby is playing in the top 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see Tatar-Sheahan-Alfredsson on the 3rd line. Keeps pressure off the younger kids, less wear and tear on the old man, and it has a 2 Kids and a Goat feel to it.

My only problem with that is that it probably means Abby is playing in the top 6

Not if Jurco is.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Jurco

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist

Leaving Miller-Helm-Abdelkader for the 4th

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not if Jurco is.Zetterberg-Datsyuk-JurcoFranzen-Weiss-NyquistLeaving Miller-Helm-Abdelkader for the 4th

Which I'm seriously doubting considering all our forwards, the 23 man limit, and him being the only that doesn't pass through waivers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't really sure where to put this but this place seems as good as anywhere...

KGrJA56V_normal.jpegThe Wheel Deal @Bill_Roose · 43m

Expect Dan Cleary to don his third different number for #RedWings upcoming season. The veteran has ditched 71, flipping the digits to 17.

I know a lot of people will say they wish he wasn't going to don any Red Wings jersey this upcoming season but I still love Danny and I hope he has a solid season. And I for one, couldn't stand seeing that 71 on the ice, I think he will look great with number 17 on his back.

Wait, I've missed something here... why wouldn't he just go back to #11? Does this mean that Alfredsson is definitely back for another season?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, I've missed something here... why wouldn't he just go back to #11? Does this mean that Alfredsson is definitely back for another season?

It doesn't mean it's a certainty. I think he'd stay away from 11 just with the chance that Alfie will be back. I mean, if Cleary took 11 and Alfie signs after training camp, it would be to late for them to switch at that point due to merchandising.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jurco just won't be on the starting roster. He just won't. He looked good, but he's played less than half of an NHL season and is the only forward with minor league options. Holland will be starting him in GR. 2 of Andersson, Ferraro, Callahan, Cleary and Glendening won't be on the starting roster either, and will have to clear waivers unlike Jurco. If both Jurco and Cleary made the starting roster for some reason, we could potentially lose Ferraro, Callahan, and Glendening for nothing. It's silly to think Jurco is anything more than the #1 call up right now. He's going to have to do his time in GR just like Tatar and Nyquist did. It's a philosophy thing, but also very much a business/practicality thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is losing Callahan, Ferraro or even Glendening for nothing that big of a deal? I personally wouldn't care if none of the three played for the Wings. I want to win games; not uphold a philosophy of forcing prospects to be overripe, which hasn't gotten the team anywhere in five years. Jurco deserves to be in the NHL, regardless of the circumstances or taking the easy way out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is losing Callahan, Ferraro or even Glendening for nothing that big of a deal? I personally wouldn't care if none of the three played for the Wings. I want to win games; not uphold a philosophy of forcing prospects to be overripe, which hasn't gotten the team anywhere in five years. Jurco deserves to be in the NHL, regardless of the circumstances or taking the easy way out.

So Callahan Ferraro and Glendening don't get a chance? I'm unsure about Ferraro, but I really like Glendening, and I've LOVED Callahan thus far. You don't even want to give them 10 games to see what they've got? Jurco will be #1 call up, it's not like he's not going to play. It's not the easy way out, it's the logical way to handle a business. Jurco scored 15 pts in his first stint, I liked him a lot, but he's far from the next coming. Tatar has been playing for this organization since 09. Nyquist since 2010. Jurco started in GR in 2012. He has more time to do. He is not more special than Tatar or Nyquist.

If Ferraro, Callahan, Andersson, and Glendening are all bums this year, by all means call him up. But's probably going to come when injuries hit. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jurco scored 15 pts in his first stint, I liked him a lot, but he's far from the next coming. Tatar has been playing for this organization since 09. Nyquist since 2010. Jurco started in GR in 2012. He has more time to do. He is not more special than Tatar or Nyquist.

A few things:

  • Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
  • Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
  • Does a player have to be The Next Coming to play in our top nine?
  • A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a top-six power forward.

Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Clearly Jurco needs more time on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"

Edited by Dabura

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things:

  • Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
  • Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
  • Does a player have to be the next coming to play in our top nine?
  • A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a power forward.

Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Yeah, Jurco's ok, but clearly he needs some more on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"

Again, I'll have to apologize to you. Even if he is the next great wing, already ready, at the mere age of 21, he's not going to be on the starting roster. Have you been absent the last 10 years? Jurco isn't starting here in Detroit, and that's just me regurgitating wings rhetoric, not an opinion. PWF or not, he's in GR. That has nothing to do with it. Early career sucsuess has nothing to do with it either, in GR. If you wanna make a bet that he'll be on our opening day roster, I'd gladly take it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work. I think the Red Wings have unbelievable scouts but I think it's more than that, I think it's more to do with the way they develop their players. No player is ever given a roster spot, every spot, every game and every shift has to be earned.

Jurco will be our first call up which is great and Pulkkinen and Mantha will be our 2nd and 3rd callups if need be, which shows great depth up front.

I however do believe that Jurco is the "next coming", but unlike so many others on here, I don't think he's quite ready yet and I'm completely fine with waiting another half to full season to see him called up again. Some people will probably laugh at this but I think Jurco has more potential than any one of our forward prospects, including Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and even Mantha. I strongly believe that this kid is the real deal and he will show that in the next couple years. Think that was funny? Well here's something even more humorous to some of you I'm sure, I think he has the potential to have as much of an impact on this organization as Datsyuk and Zetterberg have had over their careers... Call me crazy... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work. I think the Red Wings have unbelievable scouts but I think it's more than that, I think it's more to do with the way they develop their players. No player is ever given a roster spot, every spot, every game and every shift has to be earned.

Jurco will be our first call up which is great and Pulkkinen and Mantha will be our 2nd and 3rd callups if need be, which shows great depth up front.

I however do believe that Jurco is the "next coming", but unlike so many others on here, I don't think he's quite ready yet and I'm completely fine with waiting another half to full season to see him called up again. Some people will probably laugh at this but I think Jurco has more potential than any one of our forward prospects, including Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and even Mantha. I strongly believe that this kid is the real deal and he will show that in the next couple years. Think that was funny? Well here's something even more humorous to some of you I'm sure, I think he has the potential to have as much of an impact on this organization as Datsyuk and Zetterberg have had over their careers... Call me crazy... ;)

Mantha, really? I doubt he will be better than mantha. The others aren't all that comparable considering size difference and playing styles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work. I think the Red Wings have unbelievable scouts but I think it's more than that, I think it's more to do with the way they develop their players. No player is ever given a roster spot, every spot, every game and every shift has to be earned.

Jurco will be our first call up which is great and Pulkkinen and Mantha will be our 2nd and 3rd callups if need be, which shows great depth up front.

I however do believe that Jurco is the "next coming", but unlike so many others on here, I don't think he's quite ready yet and I'm completely fine with waiting another half to full season to see him called up again. Some people will probably laugh at this but I think Jurco has more potential than any one of our forward prospects, including Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and even Mantha. I strongly believe that this kid is the real deal and he will show that in the next couple years. Think that was funny? Well here's something even more humorous to some of you I'm sure, I think he has the potential to have as much of an impact on this organization as Datsyuk and Zetterberg have had over their careers... Call me crazy... ;)

What have you seen from him that suggests any of this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things:

  • Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
  • Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
  • Does a player have to be The Next Coming to play in our top nine?
  • A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a top-six power forward.
Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Clearly Jurco needs more time on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"
The way you started this response got my hopes up for a Chelios meme comeback. I is dissapoint. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you 100% number9, I've been saying this for months. There is no way that Jurco starts the season with the Wings, it's simply not the way the Red Wings do things. Some of you obviously don't agree with this but I truly believe this "over-ripening" method works and will continue to work.

To be clear, in saying I think Jurco should - and might - start the season as a Red Wing, I'm not decrying the organization's development strategy. I'm talking about Jurco, who I think is a somewhat special case as far as Wings prospects go. He has good size, he can be physically imposing, he arguably does his best work in the dirty areas (around the opposition's net), he's incredibly skilled (i.e. he's not Abdelkader), and - maybe above all - he helped the team in a specific role this past season (one third of what was one of the most electric lines in hockey, Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco). The Wings haven't had many prospects like him.

There's a good chance Jurco starts the season on the farm, but I'm willing to bet he spends most of this coming season as a Red Wing and goes into the 2015-16 season as a full-timer. I don't think management is going to give him the standard over-ripening treatment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be clear, in saying I think Jurco should - and might - start the season as a Red Wing, I'm not decrying the organization's development strategy. I'm talking about Jurco, who I think is a somewhat special case as far as Wings prospects go. He has good size, he can be physically imposing, he arguably does his best work in the dirty areas (around the opposition's net), he's incredibly skilled (i.e. he's not Abdelkader), and - maybe above all - he helped the team in a specific role this past season (one third of what was one of the most electric lines in hockey, Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco). The Wings haven't had many prospects like him.

There's a good chance Jurco starts the season on the farm, but I'm willing to bet he spends most of this coming season as a Red Wing and goes into the 2015-16 season as a full-timer. I don't think management is going to give him the standard over-ripening treatment.

Well I think it's clear he's going to be #1 on speed dial when injuries begin.

I don't think he's an exception at all though. Ppl clamored for the coming of Tatar for years. Now look at him. Mature, Hungry, chip-on his shoulder, wants to be Detroit's next big thing. I absolutely love Nyquist, but no one on this team has a fire underneath them like Tatar does. You feel it every time he touches the puck. And he's in the NHL now, but he still has plenty of growing to do. Jurco playing 30 games this season would perfect IMO. I want him to dominate, I mean truly own, the AHL before becoming a full time wing. That way we can say we did our due diligence inh achieving his full potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, all I really, truly care about is two or three years out from now. If another season on the farm is going to make Jurco a much better player in 2016-17 (when we will, hopefully, be legitimate contenders) than he otherwise would be, I'm ok with it. I just don't want it done for the sake of it being done, don't want it done for the sake of learnin' him what it takes to be a ZOMG NHL REGULAR. I'm fine with Pulkkinen having to go trudge through the mud; he's smallish, not a great skater, pretty one-dimensional. Jurco, not so much. But we'll see what we see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(Again, I fully understand The Plan. I get over-ripening as a development strategy, I've defended it a number of times. I just don't think Jurco needs the four-year apprenticeship. I don't think he needs much more - if any - time below. I think there's also a need on our team for a big, physical guy with hands and natural scoring ability. How many guys do we have like that? Franzen is big, but he's not especially physical. Abdelkader has no hands. We're not signing key free agents and we don't have much quality talent beyond our core players, so we can't necessarily afford to keep all our prospects down as long as we normally would.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this