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matt198913

21 games to make it 23 years

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Can someone point me to the quote where Holland says he's not going after a rental? I'm sure it exists, but I'd just like to have reference to it.

But injuries to key top-six forwards apparently will not alter the Red Wings’ trade deadline strategy: They’re still not interested in paying a premium (top young players, high-end prospects and/or a first-round pick) for a rental player. And if they make a deal by 3 p.m. Wednesday it’s more likely to be for a defenseman.

General manager Ken Holland reiterated on Monday that he’s not looking for a short-term fix. With the Red Wings on the playoff bubble it makes no sense to Holland to spend assets on a player who is in the final year of his contract, in a year the club might not even make the postseason.

“I consider a hockey trade where you can get a player that’s going to be on your roster in September,” Holland said. “Because of where we are in the standings and because of the unknown with the number of our key players with regards to injury it’s pretty difficult to step up and trade high draft picks and real top prospects in order to get short-term players.

“Will you trade a mid-round pick or (middling) prospects for rentals? Yeah, but those rentals, they’re not going to have a big impact on your team. We’ve got players as good as those guys or better.”

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/03/ken_holland_injuries_to_key_fo.html

He never says it outright. this as about as close as he comes, with a disclaimer.

“I think this time of year you’re always looking for defensemen, but obviously there’s a lot of teams looking for defensemen,” Holland said. “We’ll see. It depends on what’s available. I don’t see us playing a big price on a rental. I don’t believe that’s the direction we should go but you never know when you get to Wednesday.”

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/02/red_wings_ken_holland_says_hed.html

e_prime likes this

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dats sick.....On February 26, 2014 Hockeysfuture.com updated the top 20 prospects for the DRW. Mantha was 1, Mrasek was 2, Jurco was 3, Jarnkrok was 4, Dekeyser was 5, etc........ Now think about that group. Our Future top line LW, future starting G, future second line LW/RW, future top pair Dman and maybe captain, and jarnkrok.

Now only 1 or 2 things can be, either all of our prospect rankings are wrong, or Jarnkrok was a highly ranked prospect that we just wasted on a rental. can only be 1 or the other.

Seriously? Not long ago you didn't think enough of Jarnkrok to even include him in our list of prospects...

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Seriously? Not long ago you didn't think enough of Jarnkrok to even include him in our list of prospects...

Stop Judging Rich, we all think irrationally sometimes

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Dear god people are freaking out! Jarnkrok was not a top center prospect. Maybe once upon a time he was, maybe, but he hasn't had the development most had hoped. Good prospect, certainly not a top prospect. And this is coming from a huge Jarnkrok fan.

As for the playoffs, if we make it we will most likely get Z back.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Sheahan

Franzen-Legwand-Nyquist

Tatar-Weiss-Alfredsson

Abdelkader-Helm-Miller

Yes our defense has holes and Howard has to get his game together, but that forward lineup imo would not be an easy one for ANYONE to match up with.

Shutdown the first line Kings, Blues or Bruins style and well add to that our unreal defense I'm sure the contenders are already in fear of potentially playing us.

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Jarnkrok is outside of that realm, as he's: 1) not a roster player, 2) not a regular call up player and 3) moving ONE player is not selling the farm like Babcock was eluding to.

Can someone point me to the quote where Holland says he's not going after a rental? I'm sure it exists, but I'd just like to have reference to it.

Just as a sidenote: Babcock was quoted today with wanting to not lose young talent from within the locker-room. Specifically: Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening, and DeKeyser.

Calle falls outside of that realm, I guess.

http://redwingsfront.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/according-to-babcock-dont-look-for-wings-to-part-with-any-young-assests-inside-the-locker-room/

e_prime likes this

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Shutdown the first line Kings, Blues or Bruins style and well add to that our unreal defense I'm sure the contenders are already in fear of potentially playing us.

Sacrificing Jarnkrok to make the playoffs is worth it to me. It would be nice to end this disastrous season on a positive especially for the young guys. This stretch will be huge for them and will be pretty damn exciting for a Red Wings fan.

Edited by joesuffP
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Thanks Harold.

I don't have the quote but it was said a few days ago, before it was known that Datysuk would be missing serious time, and before Helm got injured. During the deadline fury, some beat writer or analyst mentioned (or maybe quotes Holland?) that the injuries threw a wrench into Holland's original deadline plans.

That's what I had seen today yesterday as well, Echolalia. I just wanted to compare what he had said previously to what he said today yesterday. It's not surprising to me at all that he made the move... and after 15 hours of sitting on it, I'm fine with it.

It'll help us get into the playoffs and it gives us depth at center that we can truly use to our advantage heading into the off season and even into next season.

---

Also, it was nice to see that Philly and Calgary were able to keep the Caps and Sens in check for us last night.

Too bad Toronto was able to pick up some points.

I do think that this year is again going to be as much about us winning as others losing. I hate it when it's like this.

For example: Tonight it'd be great if we can win, and Buffalo, Boston, and Chicago also win.

I know WE can only control whether we win or not, but I'm one to sit and watch the standings from day to day and gnaw my fingernails to nubs as we inch closer and closer to the playoffs. (...but that's just me.)

Edited by e_prime

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What's the point of making the playoffs. ?

You need a goal in mind when playing the final 21 games of the season.

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Can we get 21 points? That would be playing .500. If all of our young players are truely good players, should be no problem right? After all we have played the whole season without Z and/or Datsyuk, so there should be no excuse. These guys are just to good to be put into a package deal for a proven STAR.

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Okay, again in the NHL over 50% of the teams make the playoffs.

To give you an idea how easy it is lets compare it to the NFL and MLB

In the MLB there are 30 teams, 8 make the playoffs. Percent of teams that make it any given year: 26%

In the NFL there are 32 teams, 12 teams make the playoffs. Percent of teams that make it any given year: 37.5

In the NHL has 30 teams, 16 make the playoffs. Percent of teams that make it any given year: 53%

Not really as big a deal compared to other leagues, now is it?

Best and most intense playoffs in all of sports. There's a solid 100% ;)

Can we get 21 points? That would be playing .500. If all of our young players are truely good players, should be no problem right? After all we have played the whole season without Z and/or Datsyuk, so there should be no excuse. These guys are just to good to be put into a package deal for a proven STAR.

We're 2-1 since the Olympics, so that's already 66% wins. I'm pretty ok with our odds, especially looking at the Leafs right in front of us who love choking and the pile of crap behind us in the standings.

Can we get 21 points? That would be playing .500. If all of our young players are truely good players, should be no problem right? After all we have played the whole season without Z and/or Datsyuk, so there should be no excuse. These guys are just to good to be put into a package deal for a proven STAR.

We're 2-1 since the Olympics, so that's already 66% wins. I'm pretty ok with our odds, especially looking at the Leafs right in front of us who love choking and the pile of crap behind us in the standings.

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What's the point of making the playoffs. ? This team would be get absolutely grilled against Boston or Pittsburgh also now they need to look for a top center prospect in the upcoming. Draft.

We could have said that at this point last year and we came within one OT goal of winning the cup.

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We could have said that at this point last year and we came within one OT goal of winning the cup.

We made the finals last year?

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From the "I just had to look" Department: In the last Olympics season, Detroit had a record of 28W-21L-4OTL-8SOL with sixty-one games played, which is exactly the same record, with the same number of games played this season. That season's goal-differential was minus-five; this season's stood at minus-seven. Out of the forty-two points available in the final twenty-one games in 2009-10, they had thirty-four, aided by a seven-game winning streak.

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We made the finals last year?

If we beat Chicago we would have won the won. At the very least more than likely would have.

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Can we get 21 points? That would be playing .500. If all of our young players are truely good players, should be no problem right? After all we have played the whole season without Z and/or Datsyuk, so there should be no excuse. These guys are just to good to be put into a package deal for a proven STAR.

21 points should be easy enough, but probably wouldn't get us in the playoffs. Probably need 26 - 28. Doable, even missing Pav for half our remaining games, but tough.

Btw, we've only been missing Datsyuk or Zetterberg for about 60% of the year, and I think only 2 games missing both at the same time.

And I don't think anyone was opposed to moving someone for a proven star, just not 2-3 guys currently contributing on the roster, plus other prospects/picks. Vanek, seeing what he actually went for, would have been nice, but we had a bigger need for a center. No other good centers got moved, certainly not one that could be considered a star.

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It's a great point... who cares about trying to get to a 3-decade playoff streak when 53% of teams make the playoffs! It's not impressive at all! By random chance a team will make 30 consecutive playoffs 1 out of 186,949,330 chances, so of course that's not impressive! Phooey to that.

It's CLEARLY much more important to try to tank to the 10th overall pick rather than sneak into the playoffs and get the 15th overall pick. I mean, we as Red Wings fans know for a FACT that it's impossible to get franchise altering players without having the absolute highest picks possible! Who would want 2008 15th overall Erik Karlsson over 10th overall Cody Hodgson?

Turning off the sarcasm, yes, it is slightly easier to get a better player with a higher draft pick. But is it worth tossing away a chance to be in the playoffs and a chance to chase a record that may be insurmountable in the future? I want this team to try to make the playoffs. If they fall short, it happens and we try to pick up some talent in the off season. If the team loses in the first round, at least we were in it. And if they make a nice run, that's fun too!

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We could have said that at this point last year and we came within one OT goal of winning the cup.

come again?

If we beat Chicago we would have won the won. At the very least more than likely would have.

That is a considerable stretch to put it mildly.

In 2009 in looked like the Wings had the Cup pretty well in hand and we all know how that ended.

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It's a great point... who cares about trying to get to a 3-decade playoff streak when 53% of teams make the playoffs! It's not impressive at all! By random chance a team will make 30 consecutive playoffs 1 out of 186,949,330 chances, so of course that's not impressive! Phooey to that.

It's CLEARLY much more important to try to tank to the 10th overall pick rather than sneak into the playoffs and get the 15th overall pick. I mean, we as Red Wings fans know for a FACT that it's impossible to get franchise altering players without having the absolute highest picks possible! Who would want 2008 15th overall Erik Karlsson over 10th overall Cody Hodgson?

!

AND all this talk about tanking makes me wonder how many on LGW have actually played sports. Is Holland supposed to tell some of the world's most competitive athletes and coaches, ( Babcock, Alfredsson, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Bertuzzi , Tatar, Nyquist, Howard etc) that he is going to rob them of their chance to reach their life's goal, their entire reason for existence up to this point in their lives, the chance to make the playoffs , their chance to be the under dog and do what everyone told them they could not do, against all odds win the Stanley Cup, that everything it means to be a Red Wing will end on their watch? (Grandpa, tell me what it was like being on the team that tanked and ended one of the most Golden eras in all of hockey).

Holland: "Alfie, thanks for your sacrifices but I'm shutting 'er down so we can move up and gamble on a higher pick that we may see in 5-6 yrs if it works out or not. Thanks for pissing away everything you've worked for including your old friends and teammates and uprooting your family for nothing. "

"Andy, Tomas, Gus, Riley, Glenny, Danny, I've decided to set you up for failure this year. So, I do not want you to build on your Calder Cup experience. I want you to get away from making the conscious decision every morning when you wake up to be great. I want you to move away from greatness, be a little less than the guy across from you on each and every shift. It may be humiliating at times, it may destroy character deep inside you, you may feel like you are not playing for your teammates, but trust me, years from now, we might be better."

Not sure how you guys think this is supposed to work in real life.

Edited by T.Low
Wombat likes this

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I just don't see how people think if we make the playoffs we get killed 4 straight if healthy. If this forward corps is healthy I put it up against every single team in the league. I know the d isn't great, but it's still the same d that beat a very good Anaheim team, and took the cup champs to overtime in the 7th game.

If D and Z get back I believe they are gonna be as motivated as ever to play in the playoffs. Alfy is gonna want a cup so bad. Helm will be ecstatic to be back playing playoff hockey. Weiss is gonna be highly motivated to prove everybody wrong an that he was a good signing. Legwand is gonna be motivate to be back home and playing on a playoff team. Dekeyser is gonna be motivated after going out of the playoffs early last year.

Maybe the most important of all is gonna be the kid line. They will be so excited and bring so much energy that it will be tough for other teams to handle them. I know this all basis off them being healthy but that still could happen this year.

All I'm saying is that if this team is healthy and motivate they an beat everyone. I would be pretty scared seeing an insanely deep forward group that the wings will boat if they are healthy. Think about a top 12 of d,z,mule,Gus,Weiss,alfy,helm, Legwand, Abby, Tatar, jurco, sheahan.

I would not feel good stacking up against that group of forwards no matter who I am. I just want this team to get in and be healthy, because i honestly feel they could do some serious damage. Also I feel they deserve to make the playoffs after all the insane injuries they've went through this season. I've never seen anything like this year. I'm very proud of what this team has done with such a short lineup night in and night out.

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I just don't see how people think if we make the playoffs we get killed 4 straight if healthy. If this forward corps is healthy I put it up against every single team in the league. I know the d isn't great, but it's still the same d that beat a very good Anaheim team, and took the cup champs to overtime in the 7th game.

If D and Z get back I believe they are gonna be as motivated as ever to play in the playoffs. Alfy is gonna want a cup so bad. Helm will be ecstatic to be back playing playoff hockey. Weiss is gonna be highly motivated to prove everybody wrong an that he was a good signing. Legwand is gonna be motivate to be back home and playing on a playoff team. Dekeyser is gonna be motivated after going out of the playoffs early last year.

Maybe the most important of all is gonna be the kid line. They will be so excited and bring so much energy that it will be tough for other teams to handle them. I know this all basis off them being healthy but that still could happen this year.

All I'm saying is that if this team is healthy and motivate they an beat everyone. I would be pretty scared seeing an insanely deep forward group that the wings will boat if they are healthy. Think about a top 12 of d,z,mule,Gus,Weiss,alfy,helm, Legwand, Abby, Tatar, jurco, sheahan.

I would not feel good stacking up against that group of forwards no matter who I am. I just want this team to get in and be healthy, because i honestly feel they could do some serious damage. Also I feel they deserve to make the playoffs after all the insane injuries they've went through this season. I've never seen anything like this year. I'm very proud of what this team has done with such a short lineup night in and night out.

A few problems:

#1 Players never come off injuries 100% healthy, even the most optimistic dates put Z's return at around the time the first round would start. So that puts him out of the game for 2 months, not at 100%, and against the best competition in the conference (as the Wings will most likely play the 1st or 2nd seed).

#2 While the forward core on paper is good, this isn't a game played on paper. Other than Z and D there are no consistent offensive threats on this team. Nyquist and Tatar are both young, and are hot and cold. And Franzen is Captain Streak, he has a good week and he has a week where you don't notice him.

#3 An NHL team isn't just a forward core anyway. The goaltending and the defense this season has been anyway from mediocre to terrible, depending on the night. The Wings won't beat Boston or Pittsburgh by trying to match them goal for goal, the way you beat teams like these is by having stellar goaltending and great defense, neither of which Detroit has.

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keep-calm-and-dont-stop-believing-21.png

I see your poster and I raise you:

ken-holland-2011-5-13-1-10-38_zps5ed85d9

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I see your poster and I raise you:

Oh look the same one you've posted in every single thread. We get it....You don't approve of his decisions...

No need to take it upon your self to convert all the non-believers.

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Oh look the same one you've posted in every single thread. We get it....You don't approve of his decisions...

No need to take it upon your self to convert all the non-believers.

Convert? One only needs to look at the evidence.

4-5 seasons ago the if you said on this board that success was fighting tooth and nail for the 8th seed in the playoffs you'd be drawn and quartered.

A few short years later people have now redefined success to mean barely make it into the playoffs. I'm sorry that I have higher standards than mediocrity, and want to see a real plan for long term competitiveness. If you're satisfied with being a team that makes the playoffs, but never really gets anywhere, great, keep telling yourself Holland is great. If not, maybe it's time you look at the track record and realize that this man has no plan for this team.

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Convert? One only needs to look at the evidence.

4-5 seasons ago the if you said on this board that success was fighting tooth and nail for the 8th seed in the playoffs you'd be drawn and quartered.

A few short years later people have now redefined success to mean barely make it into the playoffs. I'm sorry that I have higher standards than mediocrity, and want to see a real plan for long term competitiveness. If you're satisfied with being a team that makes the playoffs, but never really gets anywhere, great, keep telling yourself Holland is great. If not, maybe it's time you look at the track record and realize that this man has no plan for this team.

Super. I'm not wasting my time with you. Everyone knows your opinion by now. Let it go.

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