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MabusIncarnate

GDT
3/16 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 4

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First 25 games we were top 3 in conference from what I remember.

We were 13-12. Definitely not top conference material.

Not surprising when you have guys like Bert, Abby and Cleary rotating between the top two lines.

Edited by ShanahanMan

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First 25 games we were top 3 in conference from what I remember.

It was sheer luck, once the other teams started playing better and we started losing, we couldn't stop. First 27 games, 1/3 of the season, we were

13-7-7. All those OT losses have come back to hurt us.

Given that Holland isn't likely to spend the money on other players, we might as well bring him back. If Dats and Z can stay healthy and imagining guys like Nyquist and Tatar improving, I think Alfie can end up looking a lot better than he's looked down the stretch here. At his age, he's not going to be able to carry you, but he can absolutely contribute and be an important part of the locker room. I don't think we'd be having this conversation if he had guys around him able to carry more of the load. I hope he signs for a bit less next year especially if we do go shopping (and I think he would) but I'm very open to keeping him, and if the team is healthier, I think we'd be happy we did.

I see your point but my issue with him is that he needs someone to play with to be successful. I also understand that players can't play by themselves but we have too many players as is, that need someone else to go get the puck for them. The wings used to be a team of players that would all fight for the puck, now half the team floats around waiting for someone to give them the puck so they can score.

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I really need to stop letting this stupid team effect my mood so much. Ruin my mood way too often. Think they care that much? Unlikely

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I see your point but my issue with him is that he needs someone to play with to be successful. I also understand that players can't play by themselves but we have too many players as is, that need someone else to go get the puck for them. The wings used to be a team of players that would all fight for the puck, now half the team floats around waiting for someone to give them the puck so they can score.

I don't disagree with the general idea of that at all. We need more guys that don't hesitate to fight for the puck, without a doubt. But having skilled guys with a strong veteran presence and a drive to win like Alfie can also be of benefit. If I believed we had a chance at signing multiple guys that would bring some more intensity in puck chases but it'd push us to the brink of the cap, I'd say let Alfie go. But again, I have my doubts about us adding one guy like that, let alone multiple guys like that, so if we have cap space to play with, I think it'd be well spent on Alfie, especially given that the team is likely to be built around more young guys next year. Alfie is a great leader and another year of having him around will be good for our kids.

We also need another guy who loves to shoot so much that he actually shoots instead of passing it. And for the love, we need at least one more real top-four defenseman, especially given that Howard can't be relied upon to be a goalie deserving of his high-end contract consistently. We probably should've locked him up for $4 million or so earlier in the going before his big year and we'd have even more cap space to try and acquire a top-4 defenseman. I like Jimmy, I really do, and I think he's a capable goalie, but I don't think he's going to turn into a reliable top 10 goalie goalie like his contract suggests he'd be, at least not in Detroit. I think all parties involved would be better off with Howard being viewed as a top-20 goalie making about $4 million, playing behind a better defense that doesn't rely on him to bail them out so often. Again, it just boils down to the team being unbalanced; too much money spent for a top 20 goalie, too much money spent on guys that don't play or don't need to play given they're outplayed by our kids, and far too little money spent for defense.

Edited by gcom007

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I really need to stop letting this stupid team effect my mood so much. Ruin my mood way too often. Think they care that much? Unlikely

I'm with you, they look uninterested; its mind boggling.

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The Red Wings have become one of the most boring and uninspired hockey clubs in the league. How on earth does Smith have an NHL contract? He does not even belong in the AHL!

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That's simple - everyone knows already and everyone is tired of repeating it.

As said in my post above, if we'd signed him earlier in the season for a more reasonable amount, say $4 million, I think it would've been better for everyone. Less pressure on himself to play up to his contract, less pressure from management, the fans, and the media to justify his contract, more money to sign help on defense. You've gotta look at it with the perspective that his career has been inconsistent from the AHL on up and acknowledge the fact that you're not likely to just let the guy go, so you get the deal done before he has the time to play his value up. Again, we've seen too many times that he can go from being outstanding to barely even average, and he's yet to have a really noteworthy playoff run. He'd come out looking better in a more balanced system, and his off nights might not come out looking as bad as they do now when he gets little help and has that big contract hanging over his head when everyone wonders why he keeps giving up so many goals in the 3rd.

But my mind has has just been blown again and again by what Holland is and isn't willing to spend too much money on. That's a way bigger problem than Jimmy Howard.

wings87 and roboturner like this

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I don't disagree with the general idea of that at all. We need more guys that don't hesitate to fight for the puck, without a doubt. But having skilled guys with a strong veteran presence and a drive to win like Alfie can also be of benefit. If I believed we had a chance at signing multiple guys that would bring some more intensity in puck chases but it'd push us to the brink of the cap, I'd say let Alfie go. But again, I have my doubts about us adding one guy like that, let alone multiple guys like that, so if we have cap space to play with, I think it'd be well spent on Alfie, especially given that the team is likely to be built around more young guys next year. Alfie is a great leader and another year of having him around will be good for our kids.

We also need another guy who loves to shoot so much that he actually shoots instead of passing it. And for the love, we need at least one more real top-four defenseman, especially given that Howard can't be relied upon to be a goalie deserving of his high-end contract consistently. We probably should've locked him up for $4 million or so earlier in the going before his big year and we'd have even more cap space to try and acquire a top-4 defenseman. I like Jimmy, I really do, and I think he's a capable goalie, but I don't think he's going to turn into a reliable top 10 goalie goalie like his contract suggests he'd be, at least not in Detroit. I think all parties involved would be better off with Howard being viewed as a top-20 goalie making about $4 million, playing behind a better defense that doesn't rely on him to bail them out so often. Again, it just boils down to the team being imbalanced; too much money spent for a top 20 goalie, too much money spent on guys that don't play or don't need to play given they're outplayed by our kids, and far too little money spent for defense.

You've hit the nail on the head on most points but I'm not sure how much of a leader Alfie is in the Wings clubhouse. In Ottawa he had status and a real presence; on the Wings he seems to be overshadowed by guys that don't have the same pedigree that he does, but have been here longer. I've definitely haven't seen his presence on the ice these last couple weeks, he might be a good guy in the locker room; but being the new guy and playing on the third line, I'm just not sold on his leadership ability on the current team. Plus with his experience and track record you just know Holland will give him at least 4 mil a year, and that just makes me cringe.

I completely agree with your second paragraph. 100%

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The Red Wings have become one of the most boring and uninspired hockey clubs in the league. How on earth does Smith have an NHL contract? He does not even belong in the AHL!

We have one guy who's a leader on defense, and he shouldn't be the leader. Kronwall is a great defenseman and capable of being a leader, but he's better in a number 2 role where he doesn't have to be the guy leading in the responsibility department. He's better as the guy who brings the intensity and plays on the edge. And with all the money we've thrown at players that don't contribute up front after losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom, it's frankly pathetic that he's been forced into that role. If we're going to overpay for something, we should be overpaying for a top defenseman instead of signing aging scrubs. Bringing in one really capable guy would let Kronwall go back to playing his game, would tighten up our top-4 immensely, and would likely lead to a more inspired defensive group in general.

Again, because it really can't be said enough the way things have gone, my mind has has just been blown again and again by what Holland is and isn't willing to spend too much money on.

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You've hit the nail on the head on most points but I'm not sure how much of a leader Alfie is in the Wings clubhouse. In Ottawa he had status and a real presence; on the Wings he seems to be overshadowed by guys that don't have the same pedigree that he does, but have been here longer. I've definitely haven't seen his presence on the ice these last couple weeks, he might be a good guy in the locker room; but being the new guy and playing on the third line, I'm just not sold on his leadership ability on the current team. Plus with his experience and track record you just know Holland will give him at least 4 mil a year, and that just makes me cringe.

I completely agree with your second paragraph. 100%

I'm not 100% sure as I'm not an insider, but given how he's looked his worst since the Olympics, I'm wondering if he's not a) exhausted and/or b) nursing some sort of injury. And I'm not saying that he's like an Lidstrom/Zetterberg-level leader just because of his role in Ottawa, but a guy like him is going to bring leadership-qualities to any team he's on. Even the fact that he's not relied upon as the most important leader here might be a good thing. The guy isn't going to change the way he works and handles himself just because he isn't being asked to take on a very specific leadership role. He's going to be sharing a role with kids that also don't have leadership roles, but they're going to be able to look at him and see how a guy who has had an incredible career does it without the pretense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think having a guy like him taking on a lesser role raises the bar for what's possible in that role as well as how anyone on the team ought to carry themselves on and off the ice, and I think it's good for the kids to see that.

But again, my thought process has a lot to do with the thinking that we're going to have the cap space to sign him, and if we're not going to sign anyone else, I think he'd contribute in his final season on and off the ice, and even if it's debatable how much he'd contribute, that kind of guy's presence is worth more than leftover cap space that will never be used.

But if he gets $4 million...unless he signs right before camp and we have tons of money to spare, I just won't get. But I bet he comes back for around $3 million, and with a healthier team, what he might contribute could make the deal look like a bargain.

And in the playoffs, you have to think that guy would be inspired and inspiring...

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-Franzen floated like a champ once again.

-Alfredsson has looked mediocre, to be nice.

-Legwand has become invisible since starting off decent with us.

-We played decent in the 1st, especially, but completely s*** our panties by the midway point of the 3rd.

-Howard, while some of the goals weren't completely on him, can't make saves when we really need them.

-Put simply, we're not going to make the playoffs without Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

-I want a fire sale when we don't make the playoffs. Bertuzzi, Alfredsson, Legwand, Franzen, Andersson, Cleary, Samuelsson, Emmerton, Quincey, and Lashoff all need to go. Get some players that give a s*** on this team. We've got too many players skating lackadaisically out there with the season on the line.

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Nothing like a game vs the Hawks to see what this team needs soooooooo badly.

Every single one of their D can move the puck. And they have zero clowns on the back end. We have at least 2.

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Nothing like a game vs the Hawks to see what this team needs soooooooo badly.

Every single one of their D can move the puck. And they have zero clowns on the back end. We have at least 2.

Talent attracts talent and Chicago has been aggressive at signing talent when the opportunity presents itself. You get enough guys in there that believe they deserve to win and play like it and you keep winning. Everyone loved to criticize Chicago for the moves they've made in the last 5-6 years, declaring again and again how screwed they are as soon as they sign anyone, yet they keep coming back strong, and they've won two Cups in that span of time. They don't appear to be slowing down and will certainly be making a run this year again.

Some may disagree with me, but honestly, I think if we had signed Hossa in 2009 instead of letting him go to Chicago, those two Cups would've been ours and this team would be in a lot better shape than it's in now. Again, there's the whole talent attracts talent angle, but also, some of the fat we'd have to trim to keep Hossa and Franzen wouldn't have hurt us at all relative to what we ended up having to do anyways. Furthermore, staying more competitive while also running a bit more lean and mean with role players would've likely prevented us from having some of the bonehead stupid contract issues we've been stuck with because we were so "smart" to not get in all the "cap trouble" teams like Chicago got in again and again.

Seriously, think about it, we keep Hossa, Chicago's missing an important piece, especially considering he's a big part of their two way game, we're all the stronger for having him, we pick up guys like Eaves and Miller anyways because it's who we can afford, but they play better because there's more legitimate top-tier talent around. Worst case scenario at the time in terms of the roster is that we might've had to deal Flip, but he left anyways for nothing and at least we would've been able to get a return for him if he were traded. But moving forward again, if we win another Cup in that span of time, which I think would've happened, when it comes time to deal with the Lidstrom transition, I bet we'd have a much easier time finding a guy who can make a dent in filling those shoes not just willing but hungry to play for us. We are not a destination team at this point.

Ever since Holland let Hossa go to chase scraps, things have been going down the tubes here and they've been on the up in Chicago. It was a huge mistake to let him go, and again, I really, truly believe we'd have at least one more Cup right now had we kept Hossa and the team and it's status as a destination would still be very well intact. And hell, maybe Lidstrom would've even stuck around another year or two if we were still as competitive. Signing Hossa certainly wouldn't have solved all the problems we've had to deal with, but I can't help but think it'd sure as hell make it a lot easier while helping us stay competitive, and by sheer virtue of the lack of cap space we'd have available, it would've help us avoid some of the utterly terrible signings we've made the last few years.

Ugh, I hate thinking about this crap. It's just depressing.

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Cant expect much with almost a whole roster full of injuries :scared:

Edited by Duck Guy
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Well I am not that upset because I expected a loss. Personally I've said it last year an I'll say it again it was a good run but it is really time for some serious changes. This has nothing to do with making the playoffs or not it simply can't be the Wings goal to just squeeze into the playoffs. This team went from: being the superior class of the NHL to a good team to behind the pack to a team fighting for the playoffs....that's not Wingsstyle it's unacceptable, period.

Players are expected to perform to the highest levels night in and night out so should GMs. If I am the owner I'm telling Holland listen: This is your offseason to turn this team into the right direction, we need to get bigger, meaner and the defense needs a fix spend whatever it takes just do it...if you aren't willing to do so I am more than happy to promote you to become VP and let Steve Yzerman run the show. Maybe missing the playoffs will be the best possible outcome longterm, because no more signing over the hill and undersized guys it would (hopefully) lead to housecleaning. Imagine if this team would have been still in the west they might be competing with the Oilers, Flames...for one of the top 5 picks *lol*

Edited by frankgrimes
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Does this mean that the difference between us making the playoffs and not making the playoffs WAS NOT David Legwand?

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Does this mean that the difference between us making the playoffs and not making the playoffs WAS NOT David Legwand?

It appears so. The team is lost. Even the kids can't keep this sinking ship afloat.

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It appears so. The team is lost. Even the kids can't keep this sinking ship afloat.

That's just crazy. I mean, if Legwand wasn't going to single handedly drag us into the playoffs through his sheer strength of character and hockey prowess, then why did we give up good assets for him rather than just sign him in the offseason?

number9 likes this

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That's just crazy. I mean, if Legwand wasn't going to single handedly drag us into the playoffs through his sheer strength of character and hockey prowess, then why did we give up good assets for him rather than just sign him in the offseason?

In fairness, Monster, Andersson and Jurco (and to a lesser extent Bertuzzi) all got hurt since the Legwand deal.

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It appears so. The team is lost. Even the kids can't keep this sinking ship afloat.

Well I am not expecting them to do so, they are the only reason this team even has a marginal chance of making the playoffs. I can only hope Jagr will re-sign or sign elsewhere this offseason someone like him screams Holland..

If there's ever a falling asleep award this Wings edition would earn it:

- no energy

- no hits

- ******* nobody helping out our young willing players - disgusting the last games did show me one thing: Pasha, Z are the true leaders then there is a huge drop off in terms of leadership skills, period.

- identitity crisis for the third consecutive season

Can't even imagine how frustrated Babock might going from coaching team Canada to this team. Wouldn't surprise me if he decided to move on if Kenny doesn't fix his own created holes this offseason..

Edited by frankgrimes

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In fairness, Monster, Andersson and Jurco (and to a lesser extent Bertuzzi) all got hurt since the Legwand deal.

Not like we were killing it with them in the lineup though.

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