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wings87

A plea to Holland.

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Please for the love of all that is good and holy, get rid of Lashoff and Kindl. If not both then at least one of them. The pairing of Kindl and Lashoff is a goal waiting to happen. We've had amazing success inserting young forwards into the lineup, why not try a defenseman?

I don't care if it's Almqvist, or Sproul, or whoever, nor do I care if management thinks they are ready. No one thought Jurco, Glendening, or Sheahen were ready either; and they are doing just fine.

So Holland do us all a favor and bring in some fresh young blood.

Including in his own position.

GMRwings1983 likes this

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I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered.

I'd rather keep the kids that are up, surround them with capable vets and return to a one or two rookies a year tradition.

We've got so many kids coming up we will have to trade some anyway.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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Hey Kenny, can you retire or promote yourself or something? We're sick of this s***e

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I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered. I'd rather keep the kids that are up, surround them with capable vets and return to a one or two rookies a year tradition. We've got so many kids coming up we will have to trade some anyway. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Young teams need to learn how to win. This year's active playoff roster only had 5 guys who played in the '08 Cup finals--Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Helm, and Kronwall. The young players have gained invaluable experience over the past season or two, they'll continue to grow and improve, and I think we're looking at a very, very strong Red Wings team in 2 years if they continue to mix in the youth and stop bringing back veterans who have nothing left in the tank. Adding a good veteran on D would help also.

The young guys haven't "failed miserably". This team wasn't all that good, wasn't supposed to beat the #1 team in the NHL, and barely made the playoffs, aided by the epic collapse of 2 other teams. The playoffs are a different animal, it takes time for them to be able to figure it out. Look at Datsyuk... 3 goals in his first 42 playoff games! He had 3 this series alone. At least now, they've gone through that experience in 2014 rather than 2015 or 2016, as the organization had originally planned.

This is the new course. The future has already begun.

pucktividi likes this

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I think we all got carried away with the youth movement. It failed miserably when it mattered.

Much better players and lines got owned by the same Bruins in the past,so don't be too harsh on our young players.At least they carried us in the Playoffs.

roboturner likes this

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I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route.

Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years.

Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams.

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I understand that the kids didn't do much this postseason, but neither did the likes of Cleary (this was supposed to be his time to shine), Sammy, Tootoo, Bert (did contribute a single screen though).

I do like the sound of having a select few capable vets, though I wouldn't get too carried away there either. Capable vets can quickly turn into useless vets of the aforementioned variety.

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

I'm sorry,but instant solutions are one of the reason that brought us here.Instead of signing/trading for elite players,we've signed a dozen of veteran players since we've won the Cup and here we go our 2014 Red Wings team...declining stars with injury problems and inexperienced kids who simply can't beat a powerhouse B's team.

AtomicPunk likes this

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Are we over-ripening the kids until they rot on the farm or are we counting on them too soon? I'm getting confused.....

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shin, both. prior to this yer we left guys in the minors to long. But now we have major holes are are rushing guys-at least in theory. GR has largely been depleted of NHL ready talent. The guys that are left behind need more time. Yes Sproul and Ouellett should be good in time, but they need more time.

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I'm watching GR online right ow...with Janmark, Pulks, Atahnasiou, Sproul, Nestrasil, Jensen, Mrazek...we have some really talented kids. Nestrasil has really picked it up and oh...Janmark just mad a great drive to the net and feed for a goal....I have zero problem with giving Marchenko, Almquist, Sproul and Oulett a chance next fall to unseat that abysmal 3rd defense pairing we rolled out against the Bruins

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Holland has signed Ian White, Kyle Quincey, Carlo Coliacovo, Brian Lashoff since Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart have left. That's sad. Just a complete failure. Who is he going to sign once Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg leave. This really scares me. Holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years

Lashoff was signed in 2008 as an undrafted minor leaguer. He's 23 years old and has 100 NHL games in his career.

I don't know that he'll ever become a solid bottom pairing guy, but I wouldn't include him with White, Quincey and Cola. He was basically someone Holland picked up for chump change to see if he'd become an NHL defenseman.

roboturner likes this

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Lashoff was signed in 2008 as an undrafted minor leaguer. He's 23 years old and has 100 NHL games in his career.

I don't know that he'll ever become a solid bottom pairing guy, but I wouldn't include him with White, Quincey and Cola. He was basically someone Holland picked up for chump change to see if he'd become an NHL defenseman.

Still holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years. He appears to have no plan for the future for our forwards and has already failed our future blue line. Plus he has overpaid our homegrown guys. Getting over market value to stay with the team that drafted you and ensuring a mediocre squad for years to come. If we didn't have good scouting and drafting we would be the buffalo sabres.

roboturner likes this

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Still holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years. He appears to have no plan for the future for our forwards and has already failed our future blue line. Plus he has overpaid our homegrown guys. Getting over market value to stay with the team that drafted you and ensuring a mediocre squad for years to come. If we didn't have good scouting and drafting we would be the buffalo sabres.

Actually our defense is fine. It's our forwards that are the issue. A declining dat And Z as well as young guys like nyquist can't carry this team by themselfs. More is needed.

Edited by DeGraa55

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Holland has signed Ian White, Kyle Quincey, Carlo Coliacovo, Brian Lashoff since Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart have left. That's sad. Just a complete failure. Who is he going to sign once Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg leave. This really scares me. Holland hasn't made a single good deal in 3 years

Conveniently Forgot Dekeyeser? Plus, Holland has said that the organization is building from the draft: We've had Smith grab a spot, Sproul and Oulette, Marchenko on deck. That sounds like a pretty good plan for the future

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I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Here are the players between the ages of 25 and 31: Abdelkader, Helm, Kindl, Miller, Quincey, Ericsson, Eaves, Weiss, Emmerton, Tootoo, Gustavsson, and Howard. ZERO top-6 forwards, 3 bottom-6 forwards, 2 top-4 defensemen, 2 goalies, an injured free-agent signee, and 3 guys we've exiled to the minors or traded away. Not exactly a core to build a team around. There's a generation gap here--all the top players are aging, this group in the middle, and some young up-and-comers who aren't quite ready for playoff success yet. This is the price the Wings are paying for years of success, low draft positions, and trading away first-round picks. Pretty much every good team is led by guys between 25 and 31. Detroit is led by guys over 31. They'll either have to trade for top players in that age group or ride out the youth movement for another year or two before reaping the benefits of it.

roboturner and ShanahanMan like this

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I'm not saying they'll never be good. But I don't like wait and see approaches in sports. You just waste years doing that. They will learn, but we won't become a stronger team by adding even more rookies. That's the Edmonton route. Some people want to just promote from within and I think that's a bad idea. It relies on too many flaky "ifs". Nyquist and Tatar will be beasts one day, but until then they need bonafide prime year players to bridge the learning gap years. Players don't learn from losing. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't learn by sucking. They learned because the team struggled but had reams of talent. That's all I mean. We need to keep trying to win to avoid complacency and installing a mediocre or losing culture. See: all the other perennial middling teams. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Maybe individual players don't learn from losing, but teams do. Look at the Wings of 20 years ago... after great regular seasons, they lost early to Toronto in '93, San Jose in '94, then got swept in the final by New Jersey in '95 even though they were far better on paper... came back only to lose to Colorado in '96 before finally winning it all in '97 and '98.

And didn't this team struggle but have a lot of talent? So didn't the young guys learn this year? Yes, they were outclassed by Boston in the first round, but Boston is probably the best team in the league. Won the President's Trophy, not by accident. They now see how they have to step up their game. I don't see the Wings sucking if they continue the youth movement, I see them being 2 years away from strong contention.

I am not calling for the young defensemen to be called up next year, at least not more than one at a time for some evaluation and experience. I want to see all the forwards stay, see Mantha get a legit chance to make the team out of camp, and see him, Pulkkinen, Athanasiou, etc, get short callups. I'm not sold on Ferraro and Callahan though, if they are let go, I wouldn't be too disappointed. I think Mrazek is our best option for backup goalie next year, as I see him taking over the #1 job by the start of the 16/17 season, if not during the 15/16 season. I don't want to see a handful of vets re-signed or brought in and take icetime away from the players who are already here, who have proven they deserve full-time roster spots. (The exception being a prime-age veteran defenseman, the blueline can use some immediate help.) I want to see a little space left open for callups. This is what I mean by continuing the youth movement, not just gassing every vet and bringing in rookies who aren't ready and playing them full-time.

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Actually our defense is fine. It's our forwards that are the issue. A declining dat And Z as well as young guys like nyquist can't carry this team by themselfs. More is needed.

I couldn't disagree with you more. We can get by with our offense, the D is a total disaster.

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I couldn't disagree with you more. We can get by with our offense, the D is a total disaster.

I guess you're alright with 6 goals in 5 playoff games then.

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I guess you're alright with 6 goals in 5 playoff games then.

Absolutely in fact its what I was hoping for. But hey let's count how many we scored and not how many we gave up( 14 in case you were wondering) or the amount of chances that were given up. How many games do you think you're gonna win giving up 14 goals in 5 games? I'll tell you how many, 1, and that's just by pure luck.

The offense didn't show up, but it had potential. The only thing the Defense had potential to do was, take a crap at center ice.

But, whatever it's the internet let's not be rational let's just make s*** up.

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I guess you're alright with 6 goals in 5 playoff games then.

Lol I was just about to say this. Some people just can't accept facts SMFH :(

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Lol I was just about to say this. Some people just can't accept facts SMFH :(

Here are some facts for you: Last 4 games 14 goals, tons of scoring chances, not too mention countless empty nets that Boston missed. We didn't lose because the offense sucks we lost because we didn't play hard enough. The Wing's can Win with this offense, in fact they did win, The season doesn't just start in the playoffs you still have to get there. A healthy Pav and a healthy Z, along with the kids gaining experiance will change the dynamic of the offense next year. Though going forward the offense needs to be upgraded but not as bad as the D, and that's a fact. Scoring is as much a defensive metric as its an offensive one. The breakout is enormously important, and the Wings current D is terrible at it which contributes to the lack of scoring. But I guess your right some people just can't accept facts.

roboturner likes this

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Well, from listening to Babs all year long it sound like the plan (or perhaps understanding) was they never going to score alot of goals in the first place. The plan was to rely on shutdown defense and great goaltending. Neither of those two things happened on a consistent basis this year.

Its a balance thing. You can build a great offense (sacrificing defense/goaltending), or build great defense/goaltending (sacrificing your own scoring). You have to find a balance in between. In the salary cap era it's pretty difficult, though not impossible, to do both (although its easy to do neither as Ken Holland has showed us!)

We didn't have a great offense the past few seasons, which would be acceptable if we had a great defense (including a great goalie). We don't.

We haven't had a great defense (or a great goalie) lately either, which would be fine if we scored alot of goals. We don't.

One of these areas has to be improved (I don't really even have a preference), because being average at both isn't working out now and its not going to work out in the future.

Edited by roboturner

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Well, after the playoffs this year I just have a weird feeling one of the young guys will be included in a trade for a top 4 dmen. Whether it's Tatar, or Jurco I'm not sure. It's pretty obvious what we need for next year and unless Boyle or Markov sign with us we will have to go the trade route.

Internet.Unknown likes this

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