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FlashyG

ADQF | Game 3 | Boston 3 @ Detroit 0, BOS leads series 2-1

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He brought his 41 year old body and bad back with him. Does Zetterberg's bad back mean he doesn't want another cup?

My point is veteran leadership. He could bring that, perhaps. And I have no doubt about Zetterberg at all. This is probably killing him.

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He didn't have to shut them out in Game 2. The Wings made it a 2-1 game and Howard lets in a somewhat soft goal late in the second period to totally deflate the team. How different would that game have looked only down 1 goal and the team skating well. That is what I meant by the timing of the goals.

Really you mean the tic tac toe play back door to lucic, that smith was out to lunch on and Howard still got a piece of it Hahahahaha... Easy the nicest goal all series... Okay got it!

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So, the stupid and completely unavoidable penalty and the awful line change did not contribute at all? Or, they were Howard's fault? Garbage. I refuse to even consider the rest of your post at all because it includes that B.S.

You have to put a lot of words in my mouth to feel the way you do. I'd prefer it if you didn't do that.

Sure, that first goal came on a Bruins power play, but it wasn't a play that developed due to a unique power play situation. I don't think anyone sans the few going above and beyond to defend Howard are suggesting that it was anything but a weak, soft, absolutely unnecessary goal. Even Mickey Redmond who has a tendency of defending Howard couldn't defend him on that one, and the power play never came up in the conversation about the goal because it wasn't really a factor. As Mickey actually just said in the post-game, the Wings gave up two goals early on a platter, and that's the truth. I said earlier in the thread that the first goal was clearly on Howard and the second goal was clearly on the team performing a terrible line change. I didn't blame it on Howard and I did nothing to suggest that in my later thread.

Babcock post-game: "We gave them two goals."

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Quick won the Conn Smythe a few years ago in one of the best goaltending performances ever.

Howard can't get past the 2nd round.

I didn't post that with the intention of arguing that Howard is better than Quick, because I won't. It is more a point that yes, a goaltender can be responsible for losing games in the playoffs. Quick has solely been responsible for them being down 2-0 and having the series in a losing position right now. There is no denying that, he has been terrible.

Howard has been responsible for dropping one game. Holding him responsible for this game is illogical. His numbers have been excellent, he stole us a game, yet he's still getting the most heat. That's my point. Even the most elite can be awful at times and cause you to lose games. Howard has been solid, not stellar, but not bad either.

The blame needs to be pointed at the offense and lack of effort and energy in the first half of tonight's game.

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My point is veteran leadership. He could bring that, perhaps. And I have no doubt about Zetterberg at all. This is probably killing him.

He did not play tonight. You are aware of that, right? He played the first two games in some serious pain. What exactly do you expect him to do?

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He didn't have to shut them out in Game 2. The Wings made it a 2-1 game and Howard lets in a somewhat soft goal late in the second period to totally deflate the team. How different would that game have looked only down 1 goal and the team skating well. That is what I meant by the timing of the goals.

How about some fire and bounce back from this team? You're going to give up goals, the key is to respond.

The crime isn't getting knocked down, the crime is not getting back up. - Lawrence Taylor

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It's clear that the goals aren't coming easy for us...

You mean they're not coming at all. Goalies can't be expected to pitch a shutout every game, and even if he did, we'd STILL be playing Game 3 right now because they scored ZERO goals.

... so to give up such awful goals early on is just completely unacceptable.

Do you mean the goal where three of our players let a rookie defenseman skate right up to the faceoff dots and plant a shot over Howard's shoulder, or the one where they got caught on an abysmal line change that resulted in Howard facing down two Bruins by himself? Look for another scapegoat. You could pretty much point the finger at anyone but Howard (this game-- I won't deny his awful play on the first goal in Game 2).

Veterans are coasting around like they're ready for retirement, rookies are playing like chickens with their heads cut off, we're losing every single puck battle, no one can put a shot on net that doesn't hit either a Bruin or the end-boards, passes are way off the mark almost every time, and they look like babies being manhandled all over the ice. They have no fire and no confidence, and Howard isn't to blame for any of that.

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I didn't post that with the intention of arguing that Howard is better than Quick, because I won't. It is more a point that yes, a goaltender can be responsible for losing games in the playoffs. Quick has solely been responsible for them being down 2-0 and having the series in a losing position right now. There is no denying that, he has been terrible.

Howard has been responsible for dropping one game. Holding him responsible for this game is illogical. His numbers have been excellent, he stole us a game, yet he's still getting the most heat. That's my point. Even the most elite can be awful at times and cause you to lose games. Howard has been solid, not stellar, but not bad either.

The blame needs to be pointed at the offense and lack of effort and energy in the first half of tonight's game.

Fans are less likely to blame a goalie who's a few seasons removed from taking the franchise where it's never been before.

Howard is playing in Hockeytown and can't get past the 2nd round. Of course our fans are going to react more harshly than LA fans towards Quick. A player has to prove himself before he can get some kind of immunity from a fanbase.

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You have to put a lot of words in my mouth to feel the way you do. I'd prefer it if you didn't do that.

Sure, that first goal came on a Bruins power play, but it wasn't a play that developed due to a unique power play situation. I don't think anyone sans the few going above and beyond to defend Howard are suggesting that it was anything but a weak, soft, absolutely unnecessary goal. Even Mickey Redmond who has a tendency of defending Howard couldn't defend him on that one, and the power play never came up in the conversation about the goal because it wasn't really a factor. As Mickey actually just said in the post-game, the Wings gave up two goals early on a platter, and that's the truth. I said earlier in the thread that the first goal was clearly on Howard and the second goal was clearly on the team performing a terrible line change. I didn't blame it on Howard and I did nothing to suggest that in my later thread.

Babcock post-game: "We gave them two goals."

Babcock basically said that first goal can not go in.

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Really you mean the tic tac toe play back door to lucic, that smith was out to lunch on and Howard still got a piece of it Hahahahaha... Easy the nicest goal all series... Okay got it!

Did you miss the part where you said Howard still got a piece of it? That means he should have had it.

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Would it have really been that much worse if instead of Andersson we had Bert or Tootoo in the lineup?

Tootoo would at least fire up the crowd and not be afraid to drop the gloves against a player any size.

Babcock and Holland don't like players like that. I still don't know why they signed Tootoo. I also don't know why they obtained Legwand and have put him on a line with jobbers. Maybe they're punishing former Nashville players.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Smith played the least of every D man. Surprise the only one who was even. Best player all night for the Wings. Franzen played 20 minutes Helm barely got 13.30.

I agree. Smith looked really good tonight-- skating fast, hitting hard, not taking any s*** from the Bruins. He was the only one who looked like he wanted to win. Really wish that one hit had blown out Marchand's knee and ended his career though. Instead Marchand just faked an injury and drew a penalty like he always does.

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How about some fire and bounce back from this team? You're going to give up goals, the key is to respond.

The crime isn't getting knocked down, the crime is not getting back up. - Lawrence Taylor

When you have a talented veteran team, that is easily doable. When you have a weak defense and a lot of kids on offense, it's easier said than done. The only place that should be solidified is goaltending. They have a veteran goalie who is in his prime and is healthy. You're going to give up goals, but they shouldn't be soft goals.

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Can we please get some seriously mean net driving guys? I don't understand the passiveness if the team and alot of fans acceptance. Can we please get a nasty nasty individual with skill?

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Did you miss the part where you said Howard still got a piece of it? That means he should have had it.

If that were true, goalies should have about a .990 save percentage. That's an asinine assessment to make.

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Tootoo would at least fire up the crowd and not be afraid to drop the gloves against a player any size.

Babcock and Holland don't like players like that. I still don't know why they signed Tootoo. I also don't know why they obtained Legwand and have put him on a line with jobbers. Maybe they're punishing former Nashville players.

I'm still trying to figure out why Tootoo signed here. Basically ended his own career.

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I didn't post that with the intention of arguing that Howard is better than Quick, because I won't. It is more a point that yes, a goaltender can be responsible for losing games in the playoffs. Quick has solely been responsible for them being down 2-0 and having the series in a losing position right now. There is no denying that, he has been terrible.

Howard has been responsible for dropping one game. Holding him responsible for this game is illogical. His numbers have been excellent, he stole us a game, yet he's still getting the most heat. That's my point. Even the most elite can be awful at times and cause you to lose games. Howard has been solid, not stellar, but not bad either.

The blame needs to be pointed at the offense and lack of effort and energy in the first half of tonight's game.

He is taking the most heat because two games in a row he gave up easy goals to give Boston early leads.

Again, Jimmy Howard did not give the Red Wings a chance to get things started against Boston, but he absolutely straight-up handed Boston that chance, two playoff games in a row. That's the bottom line and that's why it's a serious problem no matter his play the remainder of the game.

I absolutely think we have other problems aside from Howard, but I also think we might see the team look a bit different if they weren't having to play from behind early on. We haven't really had a chance to get anything going two games in a row because early leads were given up to a team that is just too good to be giving early leads to. Like it or not, those early leads were started by bad plays by Howard. The situation was exacerbated by the rest of the team quickly in both games, and Howard obviously doesn't shoulder as much blame for those goals, but the wheels started coming off due to bad goals given up by Howard.

Howard needs to give the team a better chance to get going than he's done these last two games. I didn't make a stink about it after the last game because it was one game and s*** happens. Most goalies give up one bad goal now and again. I've never held it against goalies when it occasionally happened. After all, I was an Osgood fan, and obviously he had his seriously atrocious goals against. But Osgood had a tendency of following up games in which he gave up lousy goals with outstanding, lights out games. Howard came back and gave up another easy goal and lead again tonight, in the playoffs.

No one should be debating whether or not he played well the rest of the game because he did, but there should also be no debate that these early goals he's giving up are unacceptable and deflating, and again, that's a serious problem.

Edited by gcom007

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He didn't have to shut them out in Game 2. The Wings made it a 2-1 game and Howard lets in a somewhat soft goal late in the second period to totally deflate the team. How different would that game have looked only down 1 goal and the team skating well. That is what I meant by the timing of the goals.

So much denial here. Howard didn't kill the Wings' chance to win tonight. From the opening faceoff, the Wings never gave themselves a chance.

When you score 2 goals in 3 games and you *aren't* facing elimination in game 4, there's a good chance that your goalie is your series MVP. Not because he's necessarily been lights out, but because everyone has been worse.

And even then, it's not enough. Apparently, there's widespread belief that Howard has to keep track of when his teammates are having, ahh, that time of month. He has to wear the pants on the team.

Okie dokie.

It's unbelievable that people think the team that's showed up for the first 3 games could legitimately compete for the cup, but for Howard. Whatever makes the loss easier to take, I guess. It's probably better than booze.

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Fans are less likely to blame a goalie who's a few seasons removed from taking the franchise where it's never been before.

Howard is playing in Hockeytown and can't get past the 2nd round. Of course our fans are going to react more harshly than LA fans towards Quick. A player has to prove himself before he can get some kind of immunity from a fanbase.

I can agree with that logic, although Osgood after a cup under his belt continued to receive the same blame and grief for the rest of his career regardless of what he was doing.

I'm just calling it as I see it, I can live with allowing 2 goals a game as long as we can match or put up more. Averaging less than a goal scored per game will doom us even if howard allows one goal per game in the next three games, chances are they will still win a game or two 1-0 and take the series.

Must find a way to score goals.

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I'm still trying to figure out why Tootoo signed here. Basically ended his own career.

Me too really unfortunate he's cleary an nhl caliber winger better than what we've iced alot of the time

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If that were true, goalies should have about a .990 save percentage. That's an asinine assessment to make.

I'm speaking of that one particular goal. Howard should have had it. End of story. It wasn't an impossible stop to make and it was an untimely goal to give up and deflating for a team that had cut the lead in half and were putting the pressure on.

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