• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

FlashyG

GDT
ADQF | Game 3 | Boston 3 @ Detroit 0, BOS leads series 2-1

Rate this topic

1,030 posts in this topic

I understand people are upset after the loss but let's knock off the name calling and notch back the infighting a bit.

Discuss the topic, not the person making the post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I see going on here is that fans are confusing themselves with players.

When a goalie gives up an early goal, it's absolutely deflating to a fan, and I suppose it's not unreasonable for fans to assume the same thing happens to players.

But I've been watching hockey a long time, and I honestly don't believe that it works that way.

Have I seen a goal deflate a team? Yes. But when it happens, it almost always follows a certain script:

1. Underdog team works its arse off to build a lead against a favored opponent.

2. Underdog carries a lead into the third period, maybe even well into the third period.

3. Favored team starts acting frustrated, taking themselves out of the game

4. Underdog team's goalie gives up a bad goal (or two)

5a. Rest of underdog team collectively goes "Oh, FFS, we killed ourselves for 50 minutes only for THAT to happen?!?"

5b. Goal(s) lights a fire under favored team, which starts playing with focus

6. Favored team carries momentum over final 5-10 minutes, building pressure to the point that they finally score the game-winner to complete the comeback.

That's why I (and others) are heaping so much scorn on the "deflating goal" theory tonight. The Wings never inflated in the first place. They never accomplished anything that they could be frustrated at losing. And, yes, if you pack it in after a goal with 50 minutes left on the clock, by definition you are not Stanley Cup material.

MabusIncarnate likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same people that are defending Howard because we scored 0 goals are 99% of the people blaming CuJo for 2003...in which we scored very little goals. You need the timely big save and two games in a row now, Howard has given Boston gifts, thus destroying momentum. This team sees Howard give up gimme goals and they lose interest.

...and BTW, I forgot Andersson, he needs to be traded along with Kindl and Howard...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I see going on here is that fans are confusing themselves with players.

When a goalie gives up an early goal, it's absolutely deflating to a fan, and I suppose it's not unreasonable for fans to assume the same thing happens to players.

But I've been watching hockey a long time, and I honestly don't believe that it works that way.

Have I seen a goal deflate a team? Yes. But when it happens, it almost always follows a certain script:

1. Underdog team works its arse off to build a lead against a favored opponent.

2. Underdog carries a lead into the third period, maybe even well into the third period.

3. Favored team starts acting frustrated, taking themselves out of the game

4. Underdog team's goalie gives up a bad goal (or two)

5a. Rest of underdog team collectively goes "Oh, FFS, we killed ourselves for 50 minutes only for THAT to happen?!?"

5b. Goal(s) lights a fire under favored team, which starts playing with focus

6. Favored team carries momentum over final 5-10 minutes, building pressure to the point that they finally score the game-winner to complete the comeback.

That's why I (and others) are heaping so much scorn on the "deflating goal" theory tonight. The Wings never inflated in the first place. They never accomplished anything that they could be frustrated at losing. And, yes, if you pack it in after a goal with 50 minutes left on the clock, by definition you are not Stanley Cup material.

Excellent analysis. Goals, bad or not, do not affect teams that have the talent and desire to win. And Howard has really only given up one bad goal so far these playoffs. Otherwise, he's looked fantastic against the best team in the NHL. Our defense and offense are another story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same people that are defending Howard because we scored 0 goals are 99% of the people blaming CuJo for 2003...in which we scored very little goals. You need the timely big save and two games in a row now, Howard has given Boston gifts, thus destroying momentum. This team sees Howard give up gimme goals and they lose interest.

...and BTW, I forgot Andersson, he needs to be traded along with Kindl and Howard...

Howard has had many of those timely big saves you're talking about. But we haven't won, so you're pointing to a couple miscues rather than his overall stellar play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same people that are defending Howard because we scored 0 goals are 99% of the people blaming CuJo for 2003...in which we scored very little goals. You need the timely big save and two games in a row now, Howard has given Boston gifts, thus destroying momentum. This team sees Howard give up gimme goals and they lose interest.

...and BTW, I forgot Andersson, he needs to be traded along with Kindl and Howard...

You've gotta be kidding me?! Are you on the team? Were you on the bench next to the players? That's your opinion, that's not a fact. The Wings got outplayed, had nothing to do with Howard. They came out flat at home in a HUGE game. The players didn't get it done. Don't you realize that Boston is just the better team? Especially without guys like Zetterberg and Ericsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and BTW, I forgot Andersson, he needs to be traded along with Kindl and Howard...

Don't forget Franzen fed up of his inconsistencies. , he had zero shots after 2 periods and looking ahead last thing we need is 3 40 yr olds on this team

I'll keep howard till mrazek steals the show which won't be much longer

Also while we're at it legwand has been a complete disaster .... He's suppose to be a physical player ? Looked like he was scared to me .... Send him back to Nashville and try and forget Nashville raped us on that trade

Andddddddddd it won't happen but we should bench kindl and lashoff and call up ouellet and sproul who i think would be way better ....ouellet is a smart d and sproul is big and can play and had a shot

Let's face it kindl and lashoff have zero longterm future in detroit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same people that are defending Howard because we scored 0 goals are 99% of the people blaming CuJo for 2003...in which we scored very little goals. You need the timely big save and two games in a row now, Howard has given Boston gifts, thus destroying momentum. This team sees Howard give up gimme goals and they lose interest.

...and BTW, I forgot Andersson, he needs to be traded along with Kindl and Howard...

You're making all sorts of inferences here. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I didn't blame cujo for anything. Nonetheless, even if people defending Howard, blamed Cujo, that has ZERO to do with howard's responsibility for the games. To argue otherwise is fallacious. Furthermore, you don't know what the players are thinking or feeling. If you're right, and they do "lose interest" after being down by a goal in the first period, they should look into another line of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HEY GUYS if anyone wants to discuss the game on my channel let me know id love to see and hear what everyone thinks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howard isn't the problem. He is 4th in the PO's amoung the starting G's with 2.02 GAA and 4th in save % at .931. Both numbers are better than his season numbers. He has allowed 6 goals in 3 games. We have scored 2 goals in 3 games. Which is the problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing before I go to bed.

Sharks were down 2-0 at home in game 2. Did they "lose interest?" Did they give up? No, they came back and won. Why? Because they're a great team and they have the players that are getting it done right now. Players that are in their prime and are hungry as hell to win a cup. I think sometimes we get too caught up in being the "Detroit Red Wings" and not looking at the current product we have on the ice. I know we don't have Zetterberg and Ericsson right now and maybe if they were playing it would make a difference but this team just isn't good enough right now and that's the sad truth.

Just gotta hope the Wings come out and tie it up on Thursday. Goodnight all.

wings7 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I see going on here is that fans are confusing themselves with players.

When a goalie gives up an early goal, it's absolutely deflating to a fan, and I suppose it's not unreasonable for fans to assume the same thing happens to players.

But I've been watching hockey a long time, and I honestly don't believe that it works that way.

Have I seen a goal deflate a team? Yes. But when it happens, it almost always follows a certain script:

1. Underdog team works its arse off to build a lead against a favored opponent.

2. Underdog carries a lead into the third period, maybe even well into the third period.

3. Favored team starts acting frustrated, taking themselves out of the game

4. Underdog team's goalie gives up a bad goal (or two)

5a. Rest of underdog team collectively goes "Oh, FFS, we killed ourselves for 50 minutes only for THAT to happen?!?"

5b. Goal(s) lights a fire under favored team, which starts playing with focus

6. Favored team carries momentum over final 5-10 minutes, building pressure to the point that they finally score the game-winner to complete the comeback.

That's why I (and others) are heaping so much scorn on the "deflating goal" theory tonight. The Wings never inflated in the first place. They never accomplished anything that they could be frustrated at losing. And, yes, if you pack it in after a goal with 50 minutes left on the clock, by definition you are not Stanley Cup material.

Mickey Redmond was a player and seemed to believe that giving up those early goals/leads was deflating. Does his opinion not count?

I don't generally disagree with much of what you said. As I said, if this was one game, I'd let it slide. I raised no stink about Howard's gaff after the last game, and he played a worse game two overall than game three. Hell, I think I might've even defended him! It's one bad goal, it happens, you don't let in another easy one. No big deal. Again, s*** happens.

But this is the second game in a row where at the very least what most would consider a weak goal was given up to give them an early lead. There's some debate about how easy of a goal it was to give up, but I don't think anyone can say that it wasn't a goal that he probably could've and should've stopped. If he hadn't had the game two early goal issue, I wouldn't be upset at all about this game. But two playoff games in a row with two lackluster goals against to surrender the lead to a team like Boston is a serious problem.

Hockeymom1960 and roboturner like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me too really unfortunate he's cleary an nhl caliber winger better than what we've iced alot of the time

Ahahaha. That might be the best mistake i've ever read. Jesus, I'm about to cry.. :lol::w00t:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always fun to attend a playoff game, but that was a dismal performance by the Wings. Most teams feed off the crowd's energy early and instead the Red Wings handed the Bruins the game by not showing up the entire first period. Stupid too many men penalty and a pathetic line change just can't happen against a team as good as Boston.

Bottom line is the Wings can't score goals or really sustain any pressure against the Bruins. The power play moved the puck better tonight, but again special teams are swinging this series in Boston's favor.

Unfotunately, the kids carried the Red Wings to the playoffs and they now appear overmatched. Maybe a good learning experience no less, but clearly their impact hasn't been felt yet in this series at all. I can deal with the kids being exposed by the stage, but what's the excuse for the veterans? I'm done with Johan Franzen. I'm sure everything has already been said about him through the course of this thread, but he's a bum. No way do his random scoring streaks outweigh the stretches of not even appearing to care about hockey. He has been completely useless for over 20 games now. That's a 1/4 of a season where one of your "best" players hasn't even shown up.

I also don't see much reason to keep David Legwand for the future. It was probably a necessary overpayment at the time because of injuries, but he hasn't shown anything worthwhile of keeping beyond this season.

Took far too long for Babs to switch up the lines, but I'm not sure any combination is going to make a difference at this point. Eventually the players just have to go out there and score goals. Pav, Helm and Abby were the only forwards I noticed that brought it almost every shift tonight. Miller and Glendening work hard, but neither has much skill.

Season on the line Thursday. It shouldn't be a question in a home playoff game, but I would hope the Wings decide to start on time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howard isn't the problem. He is 4th in the PO's amoung the starting G's with 2.02 GAA and 4th in save % at .931. Both numbers are better than his season numbers. He has allowed 6 goals in 3 games. We have scored 2 goals in 3 games. Which is the problem?

Some would have us believe that it's the manner in which those few goals were scored that led to our downfall. Some also don't realize that any number of goals, in any manner, would have beaten this team regardless of Howard's solid play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at the game tonight and the reason we lost is simple. Too many people took the night off. Even pavel had an off night. Our passing was off, no one was moving their feet, no one supported each other in the offensive zone and always gave boston an easy out, we were far too loose defensively, made bad line changes and just all around lacked energy. From the players to the coaches, the Red Wings were simply not prepared for this game. There is no one person to blame for this loss, but rather the group as a whole. This game really defines the idea that you win games as a team and you lose games as a team and, tonight, we lost this game as a team.

Mike Babcock for the first time in a while, was completely out coached tonight. We started game 2 with his original lines, went down 2-0 and he switched the lines up and the Wings woke up and started to compete. So what does he do? Starts game 3 with his original lines again and we go down 2-0 and lack energy. That is on Babcock for not knowing when to give up on his awful lines. Franzen NEVER EVER EVER works with Pav ever. I never want to see that again. Not only that, but the kids have been far too quiet so far in this series and are lacking their usual energy. I think it is time to COMPLETELY change the lines for game 4, which is a must win game.

I thought the best player on the ice for us was Brendan Smith, by far! He was skating magically tonight and was one of our few players that had energy each shift. Yet, the only Dman to play less then him was Lashoff! That is a joke. Babcock needs to wake up and stop playing freakin Kindl so much as he is by far our worst player almost every game. I want to see more Smith and less Kindl, and Smith on the PP as well! Also, we have scored 2 goals in 3 games. We have no one going to the net and everyone seems to be timid out there. I say Abby is absolutely not working well on Pav's line so we need to bring in Bert. Say what you want about Bert, but he plays well for us in the playoffs. He is a big body, always uses his size well when playing with Pav, isn;t afraid to go to the net and the dirty areas. I think we absolutely need to play him with Pav. Here are the lines I would go with for game 4:

Bertuzzi- Datsyuk- Tatar (Tatar has looked way too off so far, putting him with Pav will do wonders and will get both him and pav going along with bert)

Franzen- Legwand- Nyquist (This is when Nyquist was at his best, so go back to it. Also, makes no sense for Legwand to be on the 4th line, this gives us a much more consistent 2nd line)

Jurco- Sheahan- Alfredsson (Solid 3rd line along with the veteran Alfie to chip in with some scoring)

Glendening- Helm- Miller/ Abby (solid 4th line)

PP1:

Bertuzzi- Datsyuk- Tatar (Tatar is a SHOOTER and thus makes sense to play him with Pav)

Alfie- Kronners (No reason why Alfie was ever taken off the 1st pp unit)

PP2:

Franzen/Jurco- Legwand- Nyquist

Dekeyser- Smith (NO MORE KINDL. Smith has soooooooooooo much more talent it is not even funny)

I think this would give the red wings the best chance against the bruins in game 4. We are not out of it as you can never say never with this years Red Wings team. Babs just needs to make the right changes moving forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot to add it, though it should be mentioned Brendan Smith was terrific in the game. His confidence is on another level when paired with Kronwall. Such a smooth skater and has done a nice job leading the rush in this series.

Now if only there was a solution for the AHL calibre play of Kindl and Lashoff...

Edited by GoWings1905
Hockeymom1960 and wings7 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you've got an analytical mind and you really want to piss yourself off, mosey on over to the box score and have a look at the ice times for various Red Wings. Here's a couple fun things that stand out...

1. Jurco and Legwand nearly had as little 5-on-5 ice time as Shawn Thornton: If these two didn't run a train on Bab's wife to get in his doghouse, they probably should now so they'll at least deserve the punishment.

2. Andersson, 8:17 seconds: If you aren't going to play him why call him up? Surely Bertuzzi is better than Andersson for 8 minutes a night.

3. Kindl, 18:02: Lol.

4. Legwand, 15 shifts: 2 more than Jordan Caron, Boston's worst player. 7 fewer than Brian Lashoff, our worst player.

Hockeymom1960 and wings7 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dudes!! I’m very much afraid that blaming Howard for this loss or the loss in the last game puts us very definitively in "Leaf-Land". Toronto blamed Reimer for their epic meltdown.

Do we really want to start acting like Leaf fans? :blind:

The truth is, the Leafs missed the playoffs, not because of Reimer, Phanuef, or Clarkson. They missed because, as a team, they were soft between the ears, lacked character, and leadership.

Now Detroit’s problems don’t run this deep obviously, but maybe we’re down 2-1 to Boston because of team play.

Also, the Bruins just might be the better team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you've got an analytical mind and you really want to piss yourself off, mosey on over to the box score and have a look at the ice times for various Red Wings. Here's a couple fun things that stand out...

1. Jurco and Legwand nearly had as little 5-on-5 ice time as Shawn Thornton: If these two didn't run a train on Bab's wife to get in his doghouse, they probably should now so they'll at least deserve the punishment.

2. Andersson, 8:17 seconds: If you aren't going to play him why call him up? Surely Bertuzzi is better than Andersson for 8 minutes a night.

3. Kindl, 18:02: Lol.

4. Legwand, 15 shifts: 2 more than Jordan Caron, Boston's worst player. 7 fewer than Brian Lashoff, our worst player.

This whole thing is just insane. Babs is just bracing Jurco and Kindl for next year, when a) Jurco is back in GRs and b) Kindl is on the 2nd pairing. :w00t:

kipwinger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you've got an analytical mind and you really want to piss yourself off, mosey on over to the box score and have a look at the ice times for various Red Wings. Here's a couple fun things that stand out...

1. Jurco and Legwand nearly had as little 5-on-5 ice time as Shawn Thornton: If these two didn't run a train on Bab's wife to get in his doghouse, they probably should now so they'll at least deserve the punishment.

2. Andersson, 8:17 seconds: If you aren't going to play him why call him up? Surely Bertuzzi is better than Andersson for 8 minutes a night.

3. Kindl, 18:02: Lol.

4. Legwand, 15 shifts: 2 more than Jordan Caron, Boston's worst player. 7 fewer than Brian Lashoff, our worst player.

That's freaking insane. Why the hell did we even trade for Legwand if we're not even going to play him???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THE problem is that we've scored 2 goals in 3 games. That's it ... right there folks.

So if Carey Price was our goalie, we'd have won two games by a score of 1-0, and lost the other game by a score of 1-0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's freaking insane. Why the hell did we even trade for Legwand if we're not even going to play him???

Could he be hurt? Seems hard to imagine why he wouldn't be getting more ice time at this point otherwise.

This whole thing is just insane. Babs is just bracing Jurco and Kindl for next year, when a) Jurco is back in GRs and b) Kindl is on the 2nd pairing. :w00t:

Kindl on the 2nd pairing. That sentence hurts my eyes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now