• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Alextricity

The Franzen Hate.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

The only reason any of those trades probably wouldn't go through is because of the length of the contract, nothing to do with the ability of each player. If you took the contract factor out of the equation, Franzen would get half of those players in a player for player trade.

The fact that you only take his goals into account is beyond ridiculous. His assists don't matter whatsoever right? His playmaking ability is vastly underrated by many on here and fact is if he never played a game in a Wings jersey, he played his whole career with Florida (or whatever team), he is the exact player people on here would be talking about trading for.

There are 20+ GM's that would love to have a player like Franzen on their team. He IS a top 6 forward in this league (top 3 on many teams), and I believe he has another 2-3 years of pretty solid production left in him yet.

But seems you only like talking about goals, here's a stat for you, Franzen scored 0.3 goals per game last season. There were only two players on your list that scored more goals per game then Franzen, Doan (0.33) and Johansen (0.4).

In the real world, the contract is very much part of the value of a player. In Franzens case his sucks and will continue to do so for 6 more years.

As for talent, I suggest you watch teams other than the RW's once in a while. ALL of the guys I listed are better players today, and most will be in the future as well, than Franzen is today-who will only continue to decline going forward.

As for money, it isn't mine. But I do care about the cap and its impact to add or keep talent in the future. We have one more chance to walk away from Franzen's contract with 0 penalties. That is this summer with a buyout, which is what Holland should do. I doubt he does that would be bold and require some guts. Something he seems to have lost late in his career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the real world, the contract is very much part of the value of a player. In Franzens case his sucks and will continue to do so for 6 more years.

As for talent, I suggest you watch teams other than the RW's once in a while. ALL of the guys I listed are better players today, and most will be in the future as well, than Franzen is today-who will only continue to decline going forward.

As for money, it isn't mine. But I do care about the cap and its impact to add or keep talent in the future. We have one more chance to walk away from Franzen's contract with 0 penalties. That is this summer with a buyout, which is what Holland should do. I doubt he does that would be bold and require some guts. Something he seems to have lost late in his career.

nwwiex.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to agree that Franzen is not anywhere near his potential. But he has played at a 60 pt per 82 game production level the last 4 yrs. The last two years he missed about half the season due to injuries. I can't quite see buying him out and replacing his production for the same amount of money unless you want to give the money to Nyquist (which he certainly deserves), but we already have Nyquist and we're going to keep him.

Could one of the kids give us the same production for the amount of time Franzen plays? Possibly. I've heard great stuff about Sheahan and Jurco. But are they ready?

The question for me is...... how much do we really believe our young kids will give us going forward? I'm talking about Sheahan, Jurco, Andersson, Teemu Pulkkinen, Tatar and, of course Nyquist. These guys need new contracts and they won't play for peanuts anymore. If we want to keep them, and I think we should (not totally convinced on Andersson yet), then let's sign them now for at least 3 or 4 years and get rid of Franzen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For you younger types that believe in advanced metrics, Franzen was our 10th best forward this year offensively. He was 184th in the NHL for those that played at least 500 minutes of 5 on 5 time. That is outside the top 6 category either way. He was 9th in the HARD (defensive) rankings among the RW's forwards.

Now to be far, he was our best on the PP.

But then again, when we are trailing and playing 5 on 5 he drops down to the 12th best forward offensively. In other words, when the team needs him he gets worse!

So Franzen is really good when no one is on the ice to guard him. If he actually has to play vs. someone, he folds like a house of cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For you younger types that believe in advanced metrics, Franzen was our 10th best forward this year offensively. He was 184th in the NHL for those that played at least 500 minutes of 5 on 5 time. That is outside the top 6 category either way. He was 9th in the HARD (defensive) rankings among the RW's forwards.

Now to be far, he was our best on the PP.

But then again, when we are trailing and playing 5 on 5 he drops down to the 12th best forward offensively. In other words, when the team needs him he gets worse!

So Franzen is really good when no one is on the ice to guard him. If he actually has to play vs. someone, he folds like a house of cards.

Yeah and he's 6th on the team among forwards in Corsi Hard

He's also 6th on the team in Corsi HART among forwards playing 500 minutes of 5v5.

And he's tied for 87th in the league among forwards playing 500 minutes of 5v5 in Corsi HART, literally right next to Crosby AND Malkin

That's a top 6 forward

And his Corsi HART is better than Zetterberg's when trailing during 5v5 play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention his Fenwick HARD (which I believe you are using) is also better than Zberg's when trailing during 5v5. R u saying Zberg gives up more than Franzen?!?!?!


Give us the layman's explanation for the Corsi and it's various categories. I'm an old fart & I haven't gotten up to speed on that yet.

I'll let Rich have at that since he wanted to play advanced metrics. He nitpicked stats to suite his argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why bother number9? It's a lost cause... The people that actually watch hockey and have an inkling of knowledge of the game, know that Franzen is a much better hockey player than he gets credit for. He absolutely is a top 6 forward in the NHL. People hate on him so much because people have hated on him so much... if that makes any sense... Basically it's the thing to do. Why bother actually watching the game, because I swear most of you don't, "Franzen sucks", "no heart", "lazy", "mental health issues", "can't play a lick of defense", "doesn't know how to set up a play", "the only thing he can do moderately well is score and he only does that when he feels like it", blah, blah, blah, blah, blaaah...

I guarantee if you did a poll of the 30 GMs, 30 coaches, 300+ players, the TSN analysts, etc, etc, and asked the question, "Is Johan Franzen a top 6 forward in the NHL?" the majority (I would bet 90+%) would say "Yes". But because Richdg, DeGraa55, GoWings1905, Z Winged Dangler, and co think otherwise, he must really suck... I need to rethink this whole thing now... Maybe he really does suck... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well...I've been watching hockey since 1970...I have a bit more than an inkling of hockey knowledge. Franzen is the quintessential floater. He doesn't offer much beyond his infrequent hot streaks and giving him top six minutes is a recipe for heartbreak. He's a 230 lb forward that plays smaller than the 185 lb Tatar.. He has concussion issues to boot. Buy him out now when you can and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give us the layman's explanation for the Corsi and it's various categories. I'm an old fart & I haven't gotten up to speed on that yet.

I am not a big advanced stat guy myself. But here it is in a nutshell. Fenwick and Corsi add up goals and shots, and then divide by 60 mins. So in the example I gave Franzen produced 1.51 shots and goals combined for every 60 mins he played last year. That total was 184th in the NHL for guys that played at least 500 mins of 5 on 5 time. You are also able to look at players for various different situations. How did they do when ahead, or behind, on the PP or SHed, when trailing or leading etc.......

Does it matter? is it a good way to judge performance? Who knows. It is kinda like WAR in baseball. Younger fans tend to follow it, while older fans follow average and HR's.

Well...I've been watching hockey since 1970...I have a bit more than an inkling of hockey knowledge. Franzen is the quintessential floater. He doesn't offer much beyond his infrequent hot streaks and giving him top six minutes is a recipe for heartbreak. He's a 230 lb forward that plays smaller than the 185 lb Tatar.. He has concussion issues to boot. Buy him out now when you can and move on.

Ditto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why bother number9? It's a lost cause... The people that actually watch hockey and have an inkling of knowledge of the game, know that Franzen is a much better hockey player than he gets credit for. He absolutely is a top 6 forward in the NHL. People hate on him so much because people have hated on him so much... if that makes any sense... Basically it's the thing to do. Why bother actually watching the game, because I swear most of you don't, "Franzen sucks", "no heart", "lazy", "mental health issues", "can't play a lick of defense", "doesn't know how to set up a play", "the only thing he can do moderately well is score and he only does that when he feels like it", blah, blah, blah, blah, blaaah...

I guarantee if you did a poll of the 30 GMs, 30 coaches, 300+ players, the TSN analysts, etc, etc, and asked the question, "Is Johan Franzen a top 6 forward in the NHL?" the majority (I would bet 90+%) would say "Yes". But because Richdg, DeGraa55, GoWings1905, Z Winged Dangler, and co think otherwise, he must really suck... I need to rethink this whole thing now... Maybe he really does suck... :rolleyes:

Especially since he ignores every one of my counter points just like every troll in the world

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well...I've been watching hockey since 1970...I have a bit more than an inkling of hockey knowledge. Franzen is the quintessential floater. He doesn't offer much beyond his infrequent hot streaks and giving him top six minutes is a recipe for heartbreak. He's a 230 lb forward that plays smaller than the 185 lb Tatar.. He has concussion issues to boot. Buy him out now when you can and move on.

Well I've been watching hockey since 1917

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55

Well I've been watching hockey since 1917

Really? I've been watching since the beginning of time. The dinosaurs played better. They were all big and physical with lots of fights. It was great for awhile until the fighting led to feeding...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well...I've been watching hockey since 1970...I have a bit more than an inkling of hockey knowledge. Franzen is the quintessential floater. He doesn't offer much beyond his infrequent hot streaks and giving him top six minutes is a recipe for heartbreak. He's a 230 lb forward that plays smaller than the 185 lb Tatar.. He has concussion issues to boot. Buy him out now when you can and move on.

NO NO NO don't buy him out if he is such a great top 6 forward there shouldn't be any problem TRADING HIS LAZY ASS for a player that takes pride in his TEAM and works hard for his MATES.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Franzen love/hate aside, his contract length demonstrates just another aspect of Holland being out of touch and lost on how to deal. Long term contracts for a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom are one thing, but not every fricking player needs to be kept in the "red wings family" for life. He always keeps existing players and rationalizes it by whining about how there is nobody out there to replace so and so. It is always some excuse, but under all that it's clear - he is clueless on having any instincts or skill for deal making and trading and lacks the balls to make any risky move that could really pay off. He's playing it safe, always, and we are paying for it. In short, Franzen is not the disease, he is the a symptom of a gutless risk averse GM who has been riding the coat tails of Yzerman, Lidstrom, Bowman, Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Babcock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Franzen love/hate aside, his contract length demonstrates just another aspect of Holland being out of touch and lost on how to deal. Long term contracts for a Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstrom are one thing, but not every fricking player needs to be kept in the "red wings family" for life. He always keeps existing players and rationalizes it by whining about how there is nobody out there to replace so and so. It is always some excuse, but under all that it's clear - he is clueless on having any instincts or skill for deal making and trading and lacks the balls to make any risky move that could really pay off. He's playing it safe, always, and we are paying for it. In short, Franzen is not the disease, he is the a symptom of a gutless risk averse GM who has been riding the coat tails of Yzerman, Lidstrom, Bowman, Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Babcock.

So he's riding the coat tails of people he either drafted, helped draft, or was part of hiring?

That makes sense.

Some of the opinions I see in here literally have to be trolls.

Theres no way they're not.

Babcocks a horrible coach?

Really?

Because the entire NHL has a different opinion.

Unless you say you know more about hockey than people who do it for a living, some of you should be preparing Crow.

And Holland.

Widely considered around the NHL as one of the best gms ever, in any sport, is a "horrible, and out of touch, gm.

Franzen is a top six forward.

You can make stats say whatever you want them to, but he is a top six forward.

He's big, creates space for other guys, has a nice shot, a good release, and is a decent skater.

Do I wish he was a more consistent scorer, sure, but that's not him.

I don't like the length of his contract, but he single handledly wins multiple games every year, for that alone, im fine with his cap hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't use "Franzen" and "consistent" in the same sentence without also using the word "isn't"

I can do whatever I want, just like I can say franzen is absolutely a top 6 forward who we have at a bargain price, for a longer contract then I would like (however it was signed before the stupid recapture penalty was implemented)

Anyway this thread is dumb, pointless, and irritating

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say what any of you want, but you can't tell me you like that there is a guy on the team that is supposed to be a skilled leader that says after the season is over that he is satisfied with this past season. That should tell you he is complacent and not hungry. I don't know about any of you but I would not be "satisfied" with that season. Unless I won it all, there would not be any satisfaction to be had. Period. That just stinks to me and tells me he isn't pushing himself and makes me question his competitive spirit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say what any of you want, but you can't tell me you like that there is a guy on the team that is supposed to be a skilled leader that says after the season is over that he is satisfied with this past season. That should tell you he is complacent and not hungry. I don't know about any of you but I would not be "satisfied" with that season. Unless I won it all, there would not be any satisfaction to be had. Period. That just stinks to me and tells me he isn't pushing himself and makes me question his competitive spirit.

Idk what post game interview you watched, but all he said was that he was proud of the way we made the playoffs, not the result of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now