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The Franzen Hate.

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Ah....the old Hossa comparison. I think everyone accepts that the GM screwed the pooch on that one, especially as, with a little imagination and forethought, he could have had both.

Is that true? I was under the impression that it was either Franzen or Hossa, and if they chose Hossa they would have had to not resign Darren Helm and maybe another player. With the salary cap, I don't think they could have made it work without sacrificing a couple players from their core.

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Some are making fake arguments. I don't care what Franzen's cap hit is. The question is can he play/produce? Would Cleary be a better player if we only paid him half a million per year? Would datsyuk be a worse player if we only paid him 1 million per year? Of course not. What a player gets paid has nothing to do with how a player currently plays. The big money contracts are awarded in all sports on things you have already done. When Franzen was signed 4 years ago-or was it 5?, the contract was an attempt by the classy Red Wings to cheat the system. Yes I said cheat the system. of course everyone was doing it, but trying to get around the rules is cheating. Back to the point. At that time Franzen had just had his career year and an awesome playoff run. The thought process was a good one. Sign a top performer to a long term deal that benefits the team. makes sense. Since then Franzen has not benefited the team. Now he is not only not benefiting the team, he has become a negative. Every year he has to be coddled and have his hand held because his feelings get hurt or whatever it is.

Now we have 1 chance to get out from under this giant rock that is weighing us down. he is not a leader, he is a bad influence on the young players-lack of effort/drive/focus, and doesn't or can't do what we need him to do. He isn't a top 6 power forward and that is the role we need him to perform. It is time to part company. Buy him out and get rid of the cap hit worries.

No work ethic.

Bad influence on the kids.

Doesn't care.

Lots of empty statements based on prejudice rather than any evidence. We, as fans, don;t have the first idea what he is like apart from when he's on the ice. He may be a cowardly selfish idiot. He may be a model professional who contributes behind the scenes. Chances are, like most people, he's a decent pro with strong enough desire to make him a decent contributor, but not enough to maximise what he's capable of.

Fact is, we don't know.

Discussions about value are all fair. Character assassination of people we have never had any personal contact with and have never read anything negative about bar a dislike for journalists (and I've met a few sports journos...most were parasites) is stupid and pointless.

As for him not performing the role we want him to...this is partially correct. he does sometimes, he doesn't other times. He gets paid like a top 4 or 5 forward, plays like a 5-7 most of the time (despite the odd productive burst that elevates him beyond that level), and we all expect him to play like a no 3 forward because he has at times shown he is capable.

Rather than just junking the guy at massive expense for not fulfilling the role we want him to, surely its better to ask is there a role that he can still provide good value filling? I'd say as a genuine 5th or 6th forward, he's fine.

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Franzen is counted on heavily to produce for us. Especially with the huge amount of injuries that happen every year. If Franzen was in Hossa's shoes playing on a stacked top 6 with a great defense his numbers would be close to Hossa's.

The numbers for our whole team suck because we have nobody that can stay healthy on a team with some glaring weaknesses. If we had a team like 08 I bet Franzen's numbers would shoot back up. This team is built with thrown away pieces and slapped together with no thought other than Babcock arranging this mess in lines that could make sense.

To me it appears like Holland has been buying time these last few years and I really hope he has a plan because the future looks ugly

His plan was Suter and Parise. Oops.

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Is that true? I was under the impression that it was either Franzen or Hossa, and if they chose Hossa they would have had to not resign Darren Helm and maybe another player. With the salary cap, I don't think they could have made it work without sacrificing a couple players from their core.

It wouldn't have been easy...but i would have been workable if the GM thought it was worth trading some lesser value pieces to make it happen - it would have taken longer term thinking, but in hindsight, it was doable. I'm not sure I realised that at the time of course!

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It wouldn't have been easy...but i would have been workable if the GM thought it was worth trading some lesser value pieces to make it happen - it would have taken longer term thinking, but in hindsight, it was doable. I'm not sure I realised that at the time of course!

It would have been nice to have capgeek back then to put everything in and test that theory. According to all the news outlets, it didn't seem possible. I know I wasn't ready to ditch a couple key pieces in order to sign both Hossa and Franzen.

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It would have been nice to have capgeek back then to put everything in and test that theory. According to all the news outlets, it didn't seem possible. I know I wasn't ready to ditch a couple key pieces in order to sign both Hossa and Franzen.

I t probably would have required ditching either Rafalski or two lesser players that were deemed important at the time but proved not to be. It would have a big call and a gamble at the time. Of course in hindsight it would have been the right call. I don't blame Holland for not making it as such, but I remember thinking at the time that looking longer term it would have been my choice...Simply because Hossa and Franzen remain assets for considerably longer than others that we kept instead.

Not everyone on the Freep agrees with the jilted HSJ: http://www.freep.com/article/20140428/COL08/304280030/detroit-red-wings-johan-franzen-drew-sharp

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Looking at it rationally at least to me it's really simple:

This is the last summer where real buyouts are allowed, if you don't use that it can hurt you. The thing with the Mule is for whatever reason he seems to not really be into it maybe he is still dealing with concussion issues, maybe it is another injury or some personal problem whatever it is, here is the problem:

if the guy retries before his contract is up the Wings would be punished for a former legally contract - as an owner I would fight that in court buy anyway - with less available salary off 2 million ...that's two fourth line players

I think for a bit more money he can be replaced with a guy like Moulson, who would other than Vanek leave enough room to sign a guy like Niskanen.

Granted I'm not a GM but these would exactly be my thought process of course the owner has to accept the millions ist would cost so who knows.

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Would you buyout a 50-60 pt player at 4 million?

In his case yes.

He's going on 35, with 5 more years on his contract. He's declining, and will continue to do so, plain, and simple. Will he be worth 4 million per year at 38-40 years old? Highly doubt it. If you're lucky you may get one more 50 point season out of him. Keep in mind he's never had more than 59 points in a season. He's also had quite a few injuries over the last few years, including concussions.

Besides the reasons I've listed above, he is lazy, and unreliable.

Tell me, if you were the GM of another team, what would you give up to get Franzen?

Edited by RedFlag85
DatsyukianDekes likes this

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@asktheduffer: Dany Heatley, the Canadian Franzen, has scored for #wild tonight. First playoff G since 2011.

:lol:

I love it when beat writers throw shade.

loutswings likes this

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I like how everyone is talking about s*** from 5 years ago because this current team is rather boring.

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I like how everyone is talking about s*** from 5 years ago because this current team is rather boring.

Simple.... because you DON'T ever let a proven player like Hossa slip through your fingers EVER!!!! He is a career superstar! Franzen at the time looked like he could be but was still relatively unknown.... Worst Ken Holland mistake to date in my opinion.

Hurts even more because we know first hand that even when Hoss isn't scoring he is a wicked defensive player as well where Franzen is completely invisible and contributes nothing in his very loong down periods

Edited by The Secret

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Simple.... because you DON'T ever let a proven player like Hossa slip through your fingers EVER!!!! He is a career superstar! Franzen at the time looked like he could be but was still relatively unknown.... Worst Ken Holland mistake to date in my opinion.

Hurts even more because we know first hand that even when Hoss isn't scoring he is a wicked defensive player as well where Franzen is completely invisible and contributes nothing in his very loong down periods

None of this hasn't been said before. This is the same post over and over and over and over and over and over.....

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Simple.... because you DON'T ever let a proven player like Hossa slip through your fingers EVER!!!! He is a career superstar! Franzen at the time looked like he could be but was still relatively unknown.... Worst Ken Holland mistake to date in my opinion.

Hurts even more because we know first hand that even when Hoss isn't scoring he is a wicked defensive player as well where Franzen is completely invisible and contributes nothing in his very loong down periods

Lol. Hossa is good. He's no superstar though. People around here act like we let ovechkin walk or Crosby. Let it go!! 5 years

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None of this hasn't been said before. This is the same post over and over and over and over and over and over.....

and over and over and over... and will be continued to be said over and over while Hoss is being his consistent productive self and Franzen continues to blow big balls and waste a roster spot. Hossa is fast, strong, shoots, scores, plays defense and has the ability to carry the team from time to time, shows up every game.... all for roughly the same salary as Franzen.

Lol. Hossa is good. He's no superstar though. People around here act like we let ovechkin walk or Crosby. Let it go!! 5 years

I think he is a superstar, look at his stats... maybe not Crosby level but I would take Hossa everyday over Ovechkin!

Edited by The Secret

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and over and over and over... and will be continued to be said over and over while Hoss is being his consistent productive self and Franzen continues to blow big balls and waste a roster spot. Hossa is fast, strong, shoots, scores, plays defense and has the ability to carry the team from time to time, shows up every game.... all for roughly the same salary as Franzen.

I think he is a superstar, look at his stats... maybe not Crosby level but I would take Hossa everyday over Ovechkin!

Hossa is not a superstar, that's not opinion. It's fact

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Hossa is not a superstar, that's not opinion. It's fact

Superstar? Probably not. Hossa is absolutely an elite two-way forward, though.

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Superstar? Probably not. Hossa is absolutely an elite two-way forward, though.

I can agree with that

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In his case yes.

He's going on 35, with 5 more years on his contract. He's declining, and will continue to do so, plain, and simple. Will he be worth 4 million per year at 38-40 years old? Highly doubt it. If you're lucky you may get one more 50 point season out of him. Keep in mind he's never had more than 59 points in a season. He's also had quite a few injuries over the last few years, including concussions.

Besides the reasons I've listed above, he is lazy, and unreliable.

Tell me, if you were the GM of another team, what would you give up to get Franzen?

Franzen has trade value. I don't want to speculate on what he'd net in a trade bc it's so subjective, but he definitely has value.

keep in mind he's been on pace for over 60 pts more than a a few times as well. A guy who plays around a 60 pt pace is well worth 4 million to a lot of teams. Yes his contract is long, but why buy him out now? Buy him out when he actually hits 38 or 39 and completely drops off, if he does. Buying him out now is beyond ridiculous.

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Hossa got 30/30/60 this year with +28. That tops every Red Wings player. Arguing superstar vs. Elite is semantics. Arguing Franzen vs. Hossa, though, is laughable. Hossa is the dominant player by a wide margin.

DatsyukianDekes likes this

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Hossa got 30/30/60 this year with +28. That tops every Red Wings player. Arguing superstar vs. Elite is semantics. Arguing Franzen vs. Hossa, though, is laughable. Hossa is the dominant player by a wide margin.

This is very accurate.

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define superstar? It is a subjective standard, so saying Hossa is a superstar is not wrong. It's not like saying he is a top 5 player in the NHL or something along those lines.

Pretty sure he is going to be a Hall of Famer

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I doubt he will be a hall of famer, but you never know. I consider superstars to be franchise players, guys like Stamkos, Malkin, The Sedins in 2012, and Crosby (as much as i hate him)

Hossa could be considered elite, but superstar he is not

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