Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 1 votes

The Franzen Hate.


  • Please log in to reply
407 replies to this topic

#1 Alextricity

Alextricity

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 27 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:12 PM

You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right?

 

And if it's only the playoffs that matter, why did the Tigers ever get rid of Jhonny Peralta or Delmon Young? They weren't great during the season, but always showed up in the playoffs. People need to make up their minds.

 

Now, flame me.



#2 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,926 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

Franzen has 11 playoff points the last 3 years. Scored 1 goal the last 3 months of the year until our eventual elimination. Those 5 goals in 7 games is a streak he should have gone on 4-5 times in a year not once.

Gus has 23 goals in 28 games. Now that's a real streak that got us into the playoffs, not Franzen's 5 goals in February

#3 Wings_Toledo

Wings_Toledo

    Seeing Red

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 788 posts
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

He hasn't really done anything in the last 2-3 months and looks lazy and unable to create offense in the playoffs this year.  No, he's not being paid to put up numbers like Stamkos or anything but he is clearly past his prime and should not have a roster spot just because of his perfomance from 6 years ago.


Edited by Wings_Toledo, 25 April 2014 - 01:21 PM.


#4 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,866 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

The ultimate goal in Detroit is to win the Stanley Cup, not to make the playoffs. It's nice that the streak was kept alive, and Franzen's performance for two months out of the season helped secure that streak, for sure, but he doesn't get a pass for being lazy for half the season + playoffs because he was carrying the team for a few weeks.
The bottom line is Franzen is an NHL player, and he's getting paid an NHL player's salary. It's expected that he gives it his all every night, whether he puts up points or not. I'm not seeing that, and considering the Wings need his effort right now more than any other point this season, it's disappointing that he's not elevating his game to where he's capable of playing.

#5 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,926 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:24 PM

Also it's not hard to see why he's not scoring. Look at tape of all his goals they're all around the crease. Franzen's too scared to go to the front of the net against the Bruins. I'm seeing a guy who wants to win and compete hard but is not willing to pay the price. He needs an early goal in order for him to be engaged and do what got him his contract in the first place

#6 roboturner

roboturner

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 439 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:29 PM

You guys may want to refer to the graph/article I posted in the http://www.letsgowin...-holland/page-5 Thread (and the ongoing conversation). It's only going to get worse from here.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#7 The Greek

The Greek

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Location:L-Town

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:33 PM

You don't deserve to be flamed for having an opinion. However, acting as if franzen is above reproach does nothing to help your argument. He definitely had a good streak, but has been invisible since.

This will be the wings' last opportunity to buy him out. It is a decision that does deserve to be weighed objectively. He definitely provides good value for the numbers he produces. However, you cannot deny that a lot of his numbers are inflated by scoring in bunches and/or during garbage time. I'm not saying that's how he gets all of his points, but it definitely affects his statistics. Also, the guy's playoff production (his justification for being here for some) have dropped off the cliff. He had 59 points in 51 playoff games 08-10. Since then, he has 11 points in 31 playoff games, and has been a minus player in every playoff since 2010. I don't know what baseball has to do with anything, but those are not good numbers for hockey.

Franzen has shown a very sharp decline. When you couple these facts with the length of his contract, you have to at least considers buyout.

#8 AtomicPunk

AtomicPunk

    Nobody rules these streets at night like me...

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,099 posts
  • Location:Home of the Wings

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:39 PM

It's not 2008 or even 2010 any more. Mule has been a middling player for a while now, not great, not total garbage, the frustrating thing is knowing what he is capable of and not getting it consistently from him. Frankly, I'm done with him.


I am a victim of the science age...the underground.

Feed the Swede! - RETIRED 2012

#9 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,926 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:42 PM

The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either

#10 Alextricity

Alextricity

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 27 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:42 PM

Seems like the majority of the people here enjoy conclusion jumping.

 

I don't like Franzen either. He should be bought out after this season. I'd've said that about Weiss, but I'd sooner have Weiss over Franzen. Johan is a waste of salary and space. I'm just wondering what's with the inconsistencies in opinions I see.

 

"He sucks during the season! He's only good during the playoffs!"

"He sucks during the playoffs! He's only good during the season!"

 

I agree that all that really matters is the Cup, but a lot of people don't realize how stupid they sound. So yes, I agree that Franzen should be off the team, but he's a good reason why the team got to the playoffs in the first place.


Edited by Alextricity, 25 April 2014 - 01:43 PM.


#11 AtomicPunk

AtomicPunk

    Nobody rules these streets at night like me...

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,099 posts
  • Location:Home of the Wings

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:46 PM

With a little work / GM skills, you could find a forward to put up 41 points a season AND give an effort every night. For considerably less what he is making on his long term deal. He is getting treated like a superstar without the superstar play.


Edited by AtomicPunk, 25 April 2014 - 01:47 PM.

I am a victim of the science age...the underground.

Feed the Swede! - RETIRED 2012

#12 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 650 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:50 PM

I don't hate him.

 

I've learned to accept him for what he is. A streaky inconsistent forward who could stand to use his size more, but still produces at a 20+ goal a season rate when healthy and on the right streak. He isn't the only player in the NHL like that, and won't be the last.

 

What I find funny is that some of the same people on here that "hate" him were also gung-ho for Kenny signing Clarkson or trading for Drew Stafford, who both have the same inconsistent label...

 

I still however think that he's a bargain for what his cap hit is and his production would be tough to replace for the same price.

 

If they did use a compliance buyout on him this summer, he'll probably immediately be close to the top of a lot of teams UFA wish list.

 

I just don't see who they could get to replace him without giving up valuable assets in a trade or overpaying for a UFA.



#13 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,180 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:51 PM

You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right?

 

And if it's only the playoffs that matter, why did the Tigers ever get rid of Jhonny Peralta or Delmon Young? They weren't great during the season, but always showed up in the playoffs. People need to make up their minds.

 

Now, flame me.

But if he had made contributions earlier in the season and was more consistent, they would not have needed a late season surge to get into the playoffs.  His "beast mode" stretches were shorter and his ghost mode stretches were more the norm this season.  

 

FWIW, the Tigers got rid of Peralta because he was a UFA who was demanding a long term high salary deal on a team that had to pay other players (Verlander, Miggy, Scherzer)  Then of course there was the  PED suspension. Peralta had several solid regular seasons and wasn't a playoff only type of player. They parted with Delmon Young because he entirely one dimensional with an embarrassingly low OBP, was slower than snot and was pathetic defensively.  Then add in the off the field issues.  

 

To me, the benefits of buying out Franzen far outweigh the advantages of keeping him.  As was mentioned, this will be the only time the Wings can escape the albatross of a contract he has.  I shudder to think of how he will be 5 years from now.  Add to that he seems to have physical and mental issues going on.  I'm willing to take the risk of losing him to another team and him somehow being able to find his magic touch on a consistent basis.  I'd be curious to see if he'd even stay in the NHL.  He strikes me as being content to take the cash and return to Sweden where there's less of a spotlight, a shorter season and less physical play.



#14 nawein

nawein

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 320 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:53 PM

I'd trade him for Dwight Kings rights. Someone will give something for him.

#15 The Greek

The Greek

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Location:L-Town

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:55 PM

Seems like the majority of the people here enjoy conclusion jumping.
 
I don't like Franzen either. He should be bought out after this season. I'd've said that about Weiss, but I'd sooner have Weiss over Franzen. Johan is a waste of salary and space. I'm just wondering what's with the inconsistencies in opinions I see.
 
"He sucks during the season! He's only good during the playoffs!"
"He sucks during the playoffs! He's only good during the season!"
 
I agree that all that really matters is the Cup, but a lot of people don't realize how stupid they sound. So yes, I agree that Franzen should be off the team, but he's a good reason why the team got to the playoffs in the first place.

What?

#16 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,180 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:59 PM

The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either

He doesn't play like 6'3, 225, he plays much smaller. Add that to all the other frustrating aspects of his game.  Darren Helm is a little guy, but he's out there busting his ass every single shift.  



#17 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,745 posts

Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:03 PM

And you didn't use one of the countless existing Franzen threads because?

 

i.e http://www.letsgowin...bly/?hl=franzen


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#18 PaZel

PaZel

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 65 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor

Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:39 PM

You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right?

 

And if it's only the playoffs that matter, why did the Tigers ever get rid of Jhonny Peralta or Delmon Young? They weren't great during the season, but always showed up in the playoffs. People need to make up their minds.

 

Now, flame me.

 

I'm a little confused by his "ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season".

Franzen had 1 goal and 7 points in the last 18 games of the regular season  :eh:

Are you confusing Franzen with Nyquist?

 

Granted, Franzen had 12 points in the 6 games prior to that slump. Which of course makes his stat-line look better when looking at the last 24 regular season games - 19 points in 24 games. However, that deceiving state-line doesn't change the fact that he wasn't producing for the last 18 games of the regular season.

 

So I would agree that the wings wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for Franzen's "ridiculous surge for six games with about a quarter of the season left to play". But, I would also agree that if Franzen actually would've showed up for the last 18 games of the season we would have easily made the playoffs and probably would be playing the Pens rather than the Bruins.

 

He absolutely does not deserve praise for helping us make the playoffs. There's a reason the credit is going to all of the "kids" on the team.


"I didn't know the draft was in alphabetical order." - Henrik Zetterberg

#19 GoalieManPat

GoalieManPat

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,363 posts
  • Location:Swartz Creek, MI

Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:49 PM

The problem is that Holland has neglected size in this line up. We have capable top 6 youngsters but we need a big winger or two. Losing Franzen we are shrimps up front. I don't see too many high end power forwards on the market either

 

This would be true if Franzen actually used his size. Franzen plays like hes 5 foot 6. 

 

You do realize we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for his ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season, right?

 

You do realize if he hadn't completely disappeared for the last month and a half of the season when the team needed him most they wouldn't have been an 8 seed. Nyquist hot streak was what really got the Wings in the playoffs. Its not just that Franzen wasnt producing points. He wasnt doing ANYTHING on the ice that could be considered productive.


Edited by GoalieManPat, 25 April 2014 - 02:50 PM.


#20 MabusIncarnate

MabusIncarnate

    The Truth Is Out There

  • Silver Booster Mod
  • 2,203 posts
  • Location:Monteagle, Tennessee

Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:58 PM

 

I'm a little confused by his "ridiculous surge in the latter part of the season".

Franzen had 1 goal and 7 points in the last 18 games of the regular season  :eh:

Are you confusing Franzen with Nyquist?

 

Granted, Franzen had 12 points in the 6 games prior to that slump. Which of course makes his stat-line look better when looking at the last 24 regular season games - 19 points in 24 games. However, that deceiving state-line doesn't change the fact that he wasn't producing for the last 18 games of the regular season.

 

So I would agree that the wings wouldn't have made the playoffs if it weren't for Franzen's "ridiculous surge for six games with about a quarter of the season left to play". But, I would also agree that if Franzen actually would've showed up for the last 18 games of the season we would have easily made the playoffs and probably would be playing the Pens rather than the Bruins.

 

He absolutely does not deserve praise for helping us make the playoffs. There's a reason the credit is going to all of the "kids" on the team.

I think what he is referring to is the 7-8 game hot streak he went on immediately after the Olympics. In that respect I do agree, had he not played that well for those games we likely lose 2-3 of them instead of winning and possibly miss the playoffs altogether. 

 

What the key here is, and it's how most around here feel about him, putting in that effort for only 20% of the season isn't going to cut it and the money can be spent better elsewhere. On a fan forum for a sports team, there will always be those players that people are going to target and they will be on again and off again about depending on performance. If everyone held the same opinion of everything always, this forum would be pretty boring. Attempting to gain justification of someone's opinion on a discussion board to me is a lost cause.


13585921555_24551f5658.jpg






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users