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The Franzen Hate.

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The recapture penalty actually wouldn't be nearly as bad as many people seem to think. Holland does have to be careful, though. Lots of kids and lots of cap space is cool, but eventually those kids will be making serious money.

All depends on when he retires. It can be very bad, it could possibly not be all that bad. In the end, not worth the risk as it isn't like the team would know a couple years ahead of time when he'd retire to prepare for it. The cap penalty would basically come out of nowhere which would be disastrous is it were a big one

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No matter what this "mental situation" is he is still making I believe 4 million bucks a year. People who make 10 bucks an hour or less go through crap too but yet we suck it up and still perform at work. His ass has to go.

fixxxer, DatsyukianDekes and Shaman like this

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How much of what is happening to him is due to his "mental situation"?

The Wings were guarded about that earlier this season, but something seems to be going on. Not sure what.

I've wondered about this.

At the end of the day, we (especially me, I guess, given all the s*** I've talked about him in the past four hours) probably aren't getting even half the full story, and he probably deserves the benefit of the doubt. Even by his streaky standards, he was really off here in the final stretch.

It doesnt matter what the reason is be it mental, family, or injury. He is not producing more and more. Its not something new as its been this way for 4 years now. Point being he is not doing what hes paid to do at the most crucial times. Its time cut the dead weight and that includes him. If you only showed up to your job and were productive 1 of 5 days would you expect to keep your job let alone get millions for it?

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Franzen is an OK regular season player but his playoff performance has dropped off significantly. Boy, I miss those days when he has that beast mode gear and score a goal a game.

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Whatever the case may be, he certainly isn't earning his paycheck. I remember when they announced his contract and the length of it how it would likely be a big mistake. And so far it looks to be that way. I mean seriously, a hockey player making that much money going into the tail end of his prime and isn't really zetterberg, datsyuk or Hossa caliber player already just bothers me. Holland has overpaid for quite a few people on this roster, Howard and Ericsson as well. Just wait until those two consistently don't earn their money, and then what? There better be a real shake up this offseason or it will be mediocre hockey for a long time to come. I couldn't even watch most of their games this year because of the poor display of hockey. Holland better shore up the blue line and add some tough hard playing two way wingers or it's bye bye exciting hockey and hello embarrassment.

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The unfortunate reality is, he's not going anywhere. I highly doubt Holland would pull the trigger on any move that would get rid of Franzen, because to replace those points would require a bold move. That's not his style.

Holland will likely shed some of the dead weight (but not as much as most people would like) and tweak things like he always does.

I expect another 50ish points from Mule during the regular season if he stays healthy, and not much from him when the games get hard in the postseason (assuming the Wings make it).

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lefty, the sad part is within a week the franzen supporters will be back taking about who he isn't that bad, the RW's don't just drop loyal players etc........ Some have been beating this drum for several years. he just isn't that good overall. Never has been. 1 great playoff run. That being said, Holland isn't the first GM that has been fooled.


HS, what is the chance he stays healthy? he already has had 3-4 concussions, more will happen. This is part of the problem-he is hurt every year.

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I said when the Wings got eliminated last year Franzen was done. When I saw him smiling in the handshake line when Chicago knocked us out, It was obvious he no longer cared about winning. He got his cup and his contract. Time to take the contract away from him. I can guarantee some team out there would offer him more money than he already makes. Let him become someone else's problem.

I get there are some out there who are disappointed in the kids lack of production. But for some it was their first NHL playoffs against the best defensive team in the league. Remember when Datsyuk didn't produce in the playoffs? The kids just have to learn how to win, much like Dats and Hank have had to.

But with Mule, there are always excuses. It's one thing to have someone playing hurt. But with Franzen there are excuses each and every year. It is time to cut him lose. At his age, his production is only gonna get worst. And trading him is not worth the risk.

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Okay, so everyone thinks he sucks, but yet think he'll get us a decent return for a solid defenseman or at top 6 forward?

Only thing he could get us in return is a broken stick.

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lefty, the sad part is within a week the franzen supporters will be back taking about who he isn't that bad, the RW's don't just drop loyal players etc........ Some have been beating this drum for several years. he just isn't that good overall. Never has been. 1 great playoff run. That being said, Holland isn't the first GM that has been fooled.

HS, what is the chance he stays healthy? he already has had 3-4 concussions, more will happen. This is part of the problem-he is hurt every year.

He had three great playoff runs but don't get me wrong, I'm in no way arguing that the Wings should keep him.

I just feel like they almost certainly will because to cut him loose and replace him requires bold moves by Holland.

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I agree Ericsson is over paid. He hustled us because we absolutely needed him. So much for hometown discount. If we ever get a true top pairing defensemen to play with Kronwall, Ericsson would look like a run of the mill average 2nd pairing guy but thankfully he's paid like a top line defensemen for many years.

I'm starting to think holland will be gone before we get a real defensemen and this bothers me. Howard is overpaid when he plays at the top of his game which is 25 percent of the time not even. Holland has handed out some terrible contracts. I'm all aboard the holland hate train. This guys track record the last 4 years is brutal.

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The unfortunate reality is, he's not going anywhere. I highly doubt Holland would pull the trigger on any move that would get rid of Franzen, because to replace those points would require a bold move. That's not his style.

Holland will likely shed some of the dead weight (but not as much as most people would like) and tweak things like he always does.

I expect another 50ish points from Mule during the regular season if he stays healthy, and not much from him when the games get hard in the postseason (assuming the Wings make it).

Pretty much this...

The chances of Holland moving, or buying out Franzen is pretty slim.

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It sucks because Franzen has been awful, but end of the day his contract is still a bargain. There are plenty of guys that make a lot more and do less. To pick a name off the top of my head clarkson lol (yes I know he is an extreme case) but seriously he makes 3.9 million cap hit. That's only 900k more then Sammy made?

I guess if you look at it two ways. If you want the roster spot you move him. If it's for the cap but and space you don't because anyone you replace him will cost more with the same production.

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It sucks because Franzen has been awful, but end of the day his contract is still a bargain. There are plenty of guys that make a lot more and do less. To pick a name off the top of my head clarkson lol (yes I know he is an extreme case) but seriously he makes 3.9 million cap hit. That's only 900k more then Sammy made?

I guess if you look at it two ways. If you want the roster spot you move him. If it's for the cap but and space you don't because anyone you replace him will cost more with the same production.

Your right Sammy's contract was worse than Franzens but that doesn't mean Franzen should stay. Its contracts like that make me worry about Hollands decisions. Sammy basically got 6 mill to play like s*** for a couple games and then sit in the trainers room injured. Hell even his couple games in the AHL were horrible before he yet again got injured. This was a guy Holland deemed worth 3 mill a season. Franzen is in now way a bargain. When he's not scoring, which now is about 2/3s to 3/4s of the season, a league minimum 4th liner playing 8 minutes has more impact on a game than he does playing 17 minutes plus. That is not a bargain. Players who are consistent are worth 4 mill a season. Streaky players are not. Especially those who go into 20+ game droughts every year.

Unfortunately I only see him leaving if the Wings truly feel Mantha can step right in. Based on Hollands "men's league" comment last season I don't see him doing it even if Mantha is ready. Then we would have lost the buyout chance and be stuck with him getting lazyer and lazyer. His post game comments just show how little he seems to care.

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Edited by GoalieManPat

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I have generally been a franzen supporter and given him the benefit of the doubt but the fact that he is so streaky and goes 20 games without scoring a goal is a problem that I do not see getting any better. The reality is with each season he will get older and slower so I think cutting ties now will benefit us down the road.

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I have generally been a franzen supporter and given him the benefit of the doubt but the fact that he is so streaky and goes 20 games without scoring a goal is a problem that I do not see getting any better. The reality is with each season he will get older and slower so I think cutting ties now will benefit us down the road.

I agree with this and said something similar in another thread. He scores some goals but they impact like 15 games a season lol. If he scores 2 goals in 15 games, that doesn't help as much as it might seem.

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If we don't get rid of him by buyout or trade then put him on the 3rd line and don't move him off of it. No reason he should be in the top 6 doing nothing.

He can chip in when he wants on the 3rd line but he shouldn't be rewarded for being lazy.

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As I've said before, I'm fairly ambivalent. But its always easier to identify with support the guys who give it total effort every game while actually getting sweet FA done. There is no doubt Franzen is in decline and his health/personality issues are increasingly becoming a factor.

Equally, I read the comments on here after and during games (not last night!) and wonder if people are watching different games. He's defensively pretty responsible, still makes good rushes and despite his finishing being all kinds of awful over the last month, he's still been getting chances every game. He's missed with too many, but he had as many decent chances as anyone in our roster not named Datsyuk or a speedster with stone hands.

The criticism he receives online is not a fair reflection of his game, up and down and declining as he is. If he was getting paid 1m less, skated around like a lunatic and put up half the reg season points with a similar plus minus he'd be a lot more accepted.

There are obvious concerns going forwards. But equally, he's still worth the money now. There is certainly an argument for buying him out, but how does Holland convince Chris Ilitch of that.

"So Franzen,,,,we're worried about his cap hit 2-6 years from now. So what you should do is spend $24m of your money buying him out while we can, despite the fact that he still puts up 0.65 PPG in the reg season, and likely will remain above .5ppg for the next couple of years, despite the fact that not only do we have roster short of points scorers and very little with any trade worth AND the fact that we are finally losing the majority of the AWFUL contracts I've been handing out to FA's over the last 3 years. Oh yeah and Franzen's cap hit is still less than my latest FA signing who hasn't played most of the year, has been invisible when he has, and is still injured. And We'll have about 10-15m cap space this summer after signing our RFAs, depending on Alfie.

Would love to be the fly on the wall for that one.....

Getting rid of Franzen resolves a problem down the line, but adds to our current ones. If the playoff streak is as important to the management and board as the Legwand deal would suggest, I just can't see it happening.

And don't forget, if things get as bad as people fear, there is always LTIR for his concussions or 'issues'.

For me, it just doesn't make good management sense to buy him out UNLESS, there is more information regarding his injury or mental issues than we know of.

It would also probably help if Babcock's line combo's actually encouraged chemistry rather than destroying it when its been established. Franzen plays a ton better with Nyquist or Zetts or both than he does with Dats or Helm.


If we don't get rid of him by buyout or trade then put him on the 3rd line and don't move him off of it. No reason he should be in the top 6 doing nothing.

He can chip in when he wants on the 3rd line but he shouldn't be rewarded for being lazy.

No problem with this....especially as heating up can get rewarded with more ice time. Seeing as its so visible when he hits beast mode, it should be easy enough for management to juggle. He makes a very good if slightly overpaid 3rd liner or a massively inconsistent and thus unreliable good-ish value second liner.

Its also worth remembering that his cap hit was back loaded. Pay him less than he's worth for 2-3 years to pay him more than he's worth the rest.

krsmith17 and derblaueClaus like this

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I agree Ericsson is over paid. He hustled us because we absolutely needed him. So much for hometown discount. If we ever get a true top pairing defensemen to play with Kronwall, Ericsson would look like a run of the mill average 2nd pairing guy but thankfully he's paid like a top line defensemen for many years.

Not even remotely. Experienced top-4 defencemen are the most highly sought after commodity on the market, and are paid accordingly when they hit UFA, as per the rules of supply and demand. Just watch how much Quincey will get on the open market this summer - most likely over $4M.

Shinzaki and krsmith17 like this

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