• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Datsyukian-Deke

2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Rate this topic

1,817 posts in this topic

I'm so tired of this, "if we weren't injured" argument. Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't injured when we lost in the first round to San Jose in 2010. They weren't injured when we lost in the second round to San Jose in 2011. They weren't injured when we got embarrassed by Nashville in 2012. They weren't injured when we blew a 3 games to 1 lead against Chicago a year ago. And they very likely weren't the only people playing injured in this year's mauling by Boston.

Another thing, people play hurt in the playoffs all the time. Bergeron was nearly dead a year ago and Boston had no trouble making it to the finals. Anybody that thinks a healthy Pavel or Hank change the outcome of our series isn't looking at recent history, and isn't taking into account the fact that injuries don't only happen to Detroit.

We lose because our "elite" players aren't good enough anymore. Our up and comers aren't good enough yet. And everybody else is just average.

Took the words out of me wanted to post exactly that. Bergeron played through a tremendous amount of injuries, Quick played with a wrist hernia guys it's the playoffs nobody is 100 %. Even in 2009 we lost against a better and grittier Pens team, they've had injuries too so no excuses.

We have 2 aging superstars, lot's of questionable prospects with unknown updside and an atrocious defense don't even want to think about where they would be without Danny D.

this team hasn't been good enough since our last stanley cup run, period.

Internet.Unknown likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so tired of this, "if we weren't injured" argument. Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren't injured when we lost in the first round to San Jose in 2010. They weren't injured when we lost in the second round to San Jose in 2011. They weren't injured when we got embarrassed by Nashville in 2012. They weren't injured when we blew a 3 games to 1 lead against Chicago a year ago. And they very likely weren't the only people playing injured in this year's mauling by Boston.

Another thing, people play hurt in the playoffs all the time. Bergeron was nearly dead a year ago and Boston had no trouble making it to the finals. Anybody that thinks a healthy Pavel or Hank change the outcome of our series isn't looking at recent history, and isn't taking into account the fact that injuries don't only happen to Detroit.

We lose because our "elite" players aren't good enough anymore. Our up and comers aren't good enough yet. And everybody else is just average.

Epic post dude. Couldn't agree more.

Internet.Unknown likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what about the injuries? Even if the key guys are healthy, we now have younger, hungrier, speedier depth with our kid 3rd line to start with.

Injuries while debilitating, aren't a total excuse. But there's no denying what we could have done if we had Dekeyser 2 years ago for the Chicago series.

And why not be optimistic about this season? A full season from Sheahan, Jurco and Tatar could generate 60 goals between them. 20 more from Nyquist. Maybe 15-20 from a healthy Weiss too. That's nearly 80 goals that we didn't have this season. I'm not saying it'll turn us into world beaters, but we've definitely got more talent now than we had a couple of years ago.

And yes you can say that the kids went to sleep against Boston. But how many playoff years did it take Datsyuk and Z to figure it out and elevate their play to the next level in the postseason? There's a reason why the Cup is the hardest trophy to win in pro sports.

Frankly I don't care what's gone before anymore. The point is, we're starting a new season, with a roster that is good enough IMO to make the playoffs. Once you get in, who the hell knows what might happen.

Edited by wings4thecup06

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And why not be optimistic about this season? A full season from Sheahan, Jurco and Tatar could generate 60 goals between them. 20 more from Nyquist. Maybe 15-20 from a healthy Weiss too. That's nearly 80 goals that we didn't have this season. I'm not saying it'll turn us into world beaters, but we've definitely got more talent now than we had a couple of years ago.

And we still have no defense...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly I don't care what's gone before anymore. The point is, we're starting a new season, with a roster that is good enough IMO to make the playoffs. Once you get in, who the hell knows what might happen.

If recent history is any indication we'll get butchered by a better team in rounds one or two. That's not going to change with a bad defense, an average goalie, and a bunch of kids who are improving just as fast as our core players are declining.

And it's most definitely not going to change if Ken Holland, and his apologists, have an endless list of excuses for not making the team better.

Every other team in the league has young talent playing for it too. If our strategy is to "just let the kids develop" without doing anything else, how are we any better off than any other team who's letting their young players improve as well? You think Boston and Pittsburgh don't have young guys who are getting better too?

frankgrimes likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly I don't care what's gone before anymore. The point is, we're starting a new season, with a roster that is good enough IMO to make the playoffs. Once you get in, who the hell knows what might happen.

Getting swept or wiped out against one of the top teams (i.e Pittsburgh, Boston)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If recent history is any indication we'll get butchered by a better team in rounds one or two. That's not going to change with a bad defense, an average goalie, and a bunch of kids who are improving just as fast as our core players are declining.

And it's most definitely not going to change if Ken Holland, and his apologists, have an endless list of excuses for not making the team better.

Every other team in the league has young talent playing for it too. If our strategy is to "just let the kids develop" without doing anything else, how are we any better off than any other team who's letting their young players improve as well? You think Boston and Pittsburgh don't have young guys who are getting better too?

Let me set this straight. I'm for upgrading and improving our team. Obviously, I'd like us to win a cup sooner rather than later, but I also realise, that by being consistently successful and not therefore getting high draft picks, drafting well is important. Which we have done. Personally, I feel that we now have enough youth that are either in our lineup right now or in GR to actually ice a very competitive team in the next 2 years.

Would I have liked KH to have been able to sign one of the D men we have been debating on here for the last week or two? Sure I would. But it didn't happen. I'm not blind to the fact that we need to improve our D. Another year under the belts of Smith and Dekeyser will go a long way to helping things. But yes, I'm disappointed in KH for not being able to acquire someone better, but it is what it is. IMO, there isn';t much point sitting around throwing s*** about how bad a GM he is. Yes he hasn't made some great decisions lately, and I'll say that. What I will say however is that he has put us in a position to be continually competing, and with our current crop of forwards things look bright. If our kids get a chance on the back end, then we'll be better too.

Some of you want sweeping changes across the board. And I would agree with you if we didn;'t have a dearth of young talent in our lineup right now, if we had no prospects in GR who are ready to help and will be given (by the sounds of it) every opportunity to help the team. If we were having losing seasons and had no bright sparks for the future, then by all means, blow it up and fire everyone.

As for getting into the playoffs. Anything can happen, and I couldn't give a damn about how two teams stack up on paper. Yes Boston beat us in 5, but you can't sit here and say that we didn't play well enough to at least get that to 6 games. And the year before. How many people can honestly say they picked the Wings to knock off the Ducks? The team we have right now is a hell of a lot better than that one was.

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. Nor drinking the cool aid. What I can see though is that patience, and timely additions in the next 2 season will put this team back where it all belongs. And I firmly believe that this season will be better than the one that has just gone. If people disagree, then that is their prerogative, but I won't' call for an overhaul when it's clearly not worth it, especially when we can ice a competitive team in a weak conference.

Edited by wings4thecup06
krsmith17 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me set this straight. I'm for upgrading and improving our team. Obviously, I'd like us to win a cup sooner rather than later, but I also realise, that by being consistently successful and not therefore getting high draft picks, drafting well is important. Which we have done. Personally, I feel that we now have enough youth that are either in our lineup right now or in GR to actually ice a very competitive team in the next 2 years.

Would I have liked KH to have been able to sign one of the D men we have been debating on here for the last week or two? Sure I would. But it didn't happen. I'm not blind to the fact that we need to improve our D. Another year under the belts of Smith and Dekeyser will go a long way to helping things. But yes, I'm disappointed in KH for not being able to acquire someone better, but it is what it is. IMO, there isn';t much point sitting around throwing s*** about how bad a GM he is. Yes he hasn't made some great decisions lately, and I'll say that. What I will say however is that he has put us in a position to be continually competing, and with our current crop of forwards things look bright. If our kids get a chance on the back end, then we'll be better too.

Some of you want sweeping changes across the board. And I would agree with you if we didn;'t have a dearth of young talent in our lineup right now, if we had no prospects in GR who are ready to help and will be given (by the sounds of it) every opportunity to help the team. If we were having losing seasons and had no bright sparks for the future, then by all means, blow it up and fire everyone.

As for getting into the playoffs. Anything can happen, and I couldn't give a damn about how two teams stack up on paper. Yes Boston beat us in 5, but you can't sit here and say that we didn't play well enough to at least get that to 6 games. And the year before. How many people can honestly say they picked the Wings to knock off the Ducks? The team we have right now is a hell of a lot better than that one was.

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. Nor drinking the cool aid. What I can see though is that patience, and timely additions in the next 2 season will put this team back where it all belongs. And I firmly believe that this season will be better than the one that has just gone. If people disagree, then that is their prerogative, but I won't' call for an overhaul when it's clearly not worth it, especially when we can ice a competitive team in a weak conference.

It's a long post, so I bolded the things I agree with, and italicized the things I don't. My main counterpoints are as follows: 1) The fact that we're not having losing seasons is not a good reason to avoid making smart personnel moves. Pittsburgh fired their GM and coach after 4 or 5 early playoff exits. We pat ours on the back and tell them they did a good job because at least they weren't as bad as Buffalo 2) Our standards as an organization should be higher than "competing in a weak conference". Holland used to say he wanted to challenge for the cup every year. Now he's content to scrape into the playoffs and "see what happens. 3) It's not either/or when it comes to letting kids play vs. acquiring pieces we need. We've got more kids than spots. Some of them can be used to acquire players that help us now. We can't give all of Quellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, and Jenson spots. Not while keeping Knonwall, Ericsson, Smith, and Dekeyser. Likewise there's probably not enough room for all of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Mantha with the roster we have. And IF you keep all those guys then there's definitely not room for all of Helm, Glendening, Miller, Abby. And all of that is assuming that Kindl is traded, Lashoff is traded, Andersson is traded.

Oh, and before the ill advised Quincey signing we also had about 14 million in cap space to do it.

Fact is, we've got more than enough assets to make our team competitive now without mortgaging the organization's future. So why not do it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting swept or wiped out against one of the top teams (i.e Pittsburgh, Boston)

We met the worst matchup last year, if we got Pittsburgh it could have been a totally different outcome. Last year everyone wanted to match up against Pittsburgh because we had a chance to beat them, now all of a sudden we can't beat them with the exact same team and they have gotten worse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know him! It's Ziggerwaggelitus and Figglywigbandersnatch's son. What a lovely family. I have to remember to send them a Christmas card this year.

I don't think they celebrate Christmas where those names are from. :lol:

kipwinger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We met the worst matchup last year, if we got Pittsburgh it could have been a totally different outcome. Last year everyone wanted to match up against Pittsburgh because we had a chance to beat them, now all of a sudden we can't beat them with the exact same team and they have gotten worse?

Guess what ? Good teams overcome adversity and if you expect wo win the cap, you have to able to beat everyone, period.

IF's don't win you games or change the outcome, a good, hardworking well built team is what's going to win. IF's in my mind are a shorter term for excuse something we've been hearing since 2009 and then even more of it after King Lids retired. I'm for one sick of it and looking at the job Yzerman and Nil have been doing makes we wish, we could switch GMs, period.

Just to make one thing clear, I know Holland has done a lot of great things for this organisation but I also feel he lacks the fire and willingness to take the much needed risks and trade some guys for help on the backend. So why not become the VP of hockey operations and help a young but coming GM out with your experience ?

Edited by frankgrimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly I don't care what's gone before anymore. The point is, we're starting a new season, with a roster that is good enough IMO to make the playoffs. Once you get in, who the hell knows what might happen.

You might take Cinderella to the ball but she ain't going home with you that night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this year we have to split Z and Dats up at least until Weiss settles in:

Weiss - Datsyuk - Mantha

Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco

Abdelkader - Helm - Glendening

Miller - Andersson

Our forward group is actually pretty good. However the D is just a disaster:

Kronwall - Smith

Dekeyser - Quincey

Ericsson - Marchenko/Kindl

Lashoff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Low-risk, high-reward deal for the Penguins with Steve Downie.

Also, John Scott to San Jose on a 1-year deal.

Not really sure how I feel about the Grabovski and Kulemin deals for the Islanders. Both seem too long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My hope is that we can trade for Green, Boychuk, Yandle, Myers, or Franson..... then I'll be okay and happier at least. We'll see if Holland can pull this disaster of a UFA period out of the dumps and do something positive, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone actually think Holland will make a trade for a quality Dman? I used to get excited that something may happen but at this point I'm so deflated from his inability to do anything the last while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My hope is that we can trade for Green, Boychuk, Yandle, Myers, or Franson..... then I'll be okay and happier at least. We'll see if Holland can pull this disaster of a UFA period out of the dumps and do something positive, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I will only be happy if we get one of them and not give up Tatar/Nyquist/Jurco/Mantha but that will be very difficult. Oh and I don't want to lose our 1st rounder next year lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember guys, Holland doesn't trade. He "reacquires".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will only be happy if we get one of them and not give up Tatar/Nyquist/Jurco/Mantha but that will be very difficult. Oh and I don't want to lose our 1st rounder next year lol.

I’d trade next year’s first (which will surely be top 15) + Nyquist for Yandle in a heartbeat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I refuse to trade nyquist, i would rather trade tats or sheahan, peomblem is if u split tats or jurco, they lose chemestry

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign me up aboard the Myers train. I've always liked the guy. I don't have much more to add other than the obvious which has already been said (he's huge Dman RH shot). But are there any rumours out there that were actually going for him??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now