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2015 Draft

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1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Geezus! Montreal has FOUR 2nd rounders this draft! They'll get a stud in the 1st and then four very solid players in the 2nd!

If they're smart (Bergevin isn't), they'll look to package a couple of those 2nd's to get another 1st... I'm still hoping Holland has a trade or two up his sleeve to improve our draft position (after 6), but I doubt he'll do much of anything...

EDIT: wrong thread...

Edited by krsmith17

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On 5/15/2018 at 7:34 PM, krsmith17 said:

What if only Svechnikov makes it as a middle six winger?

He was drafted 19th overall. I would be OK with a middle six winger. If he was drafted in the top 10 or 15, then I would be very, very, very disappointed. What disappoints me the most is that Brock Boeser was taken 4 picks later. Obviously, i would rather have picked him.

Saarajarvi was a 3rd rounder. If he at least turns out to be a 3rd pairing, I would be OK with that. I am just not going to expect Datsuk, Zetterberg type picks anymore. Those days are gone.

So even if all we have to show from that draft is a middle six winger and a 5/6 dman, its okay. Not every year is going to be a home run. 2014 was a decent draft for us and 2016 was tremendous. I am OK with 2015 being a little light.

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On 6/28/2015 at 4:56 PM, PumpkinEscobar said:

Hakan liked him a lot

Hakan is still riding a rep built on a few guys he found decades ago.

On 5/15/2018 at 8:34 PM, krsmith17 said:

What if only Svechnikov makes it as a middle six winger?

If they get a winger who consistently scores 20-25 goals and another 20 assists, it won't be bad, just won't live up to the hype some people put on him.  Therefore he "sucks."

Like most prospects, I'd trade him for a young proven NHL player in a second, though.

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4 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Hakan is still riding a rep built on a few guys he found decades ago.

If they get a winger who consistently scores 20-25 goals and another 20 assists, it won't be bad, just won't live up to the hype some people put on him.  Therefore he "sucks."

Like most prospects, I'd trade him for a young proven NHL player in a second, though.

Perhaps you need to read my original post again. I don't think he "sucks" because he's only going to be a 40 pt winger. I think he "sucks" cause he's not good enough to play in the NHL at all. Hope that's clear enough for you.

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Perhaps you need to read my original post again. I don't think he "sucks" because he's only going to be a 40 pt winger. I think he "sucks" cause he's not good enough to play in the NHL at all. Hope that's clear enough for you.

Let's give him a little time to develop, shall we?

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2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Maybe just a tiny bit?

giphy.gif

No

Svechnikov is not good. At most he is a Riley Sheahan. AKA completely replaceable. And Sheahan at least plays responsible center defense. Name one thing impressive about Evgenys game... you cant bc he doesnt do anything exceptionally well. Hes average AF. And off the puck hes not fast, postionally sound, or gritty. He screams trade ASAP b4 other teams figure this out.

Remember golden boy Mrazek? Everyone fought me tooth n nail, but the golden boy was in the end a failure. Sechnikov is the same story... but Im a patient man. Ill wait and tell you "ha ha told ya so" when the time comes... just dont be surprisedin 2 years when it happens

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7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No

Svechnikov is not good. At most he is a Riley Sheahan. AKA completely replaceable. And Sheahan at least plays responsible center defense. Name one thing impressive about Evgenys game... you cant bc he doesnt do anything exceptionally well. Hes average AF. And off the puck hes not fast, postionally sound, or gritty. He screams trade ASAP b4 other teams figure this out.

Remember golden boy Mrazek? Everyone fought me tooth n nail, but the golden boy was in the end a failure. Sechnikov is the same story... but Im a patient man. Ill wait and tell you "ha ha told ya so" when the time comes... just dont be surprisedin 2 years when it happens

The thing is, no one is saying Svechnikov is awesome or irreplaceable or anything close to that. Most see him as a middle six winger, which is probably where he'll end up. Are middle six wingers replaceable? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should trade every future middle six winger in the system. I'd trade him, but not just to get rid of him. If he can be packaged with another piece to fill an area of need (defense), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'll give you credit for calling some of the past duds, like Smith, Jurco and Mrazek, but let's hope Svechnikov doesn't follow the same path... All three of those guys had the raw skill, but couldn't keep their head on straight for one reason or another (not getting into that again). The difference with Svechnikov is that he has the raw skill, the hockey IQ, and desire to get better every day. He's a big body that moves well, isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas, has soft hands and a quick release. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Jurco. So again, hopefully he can break through and actually become what most of us expected from Jurco, a solid middle six winger...

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4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The thing is, no one is saying Svechnikov is awesome or irreplaceable or anything close to that. Most see him as a middle six winger, which is probably where he'll end up. Are middle six wingers replaceable? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should trade every future middle six winger in the system. I'd trade him, but not just to get rid of him. If he can be packaged with another piece to fill an area of need (defense), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'll give you credit for calling some of the past duds, like Smith, Jurco and Mrazek, but let's hope Svechnikov doesn't follow the same path... All three of those guys had the raw skill, but couldn't keep their head on straight for one reason or another (not getting into that again). The difference with Svechnikov is that he has the raw skill, the hockey IQ, and desire to get better every day. He's a big body that moves well, isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas, has soft hands and a quick release. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Jurco. So again, hopefully he can break through and actually become what most of us expected from Jurco, a solid middle six winger...

I just think he'd be overvalued around the league right now. Carolina might want him to pair with his brother... maybe hes the piece that nets us Faulk or something?

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41 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I just think he'd be overvalued around the league right now. Carolina might want him to pair with his brother... maybe hes the piece that nets us Faulk or something?

Exactly what I've been saying... I'd trade him in a package for almost any of their defensemen.

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I just think he'd be overvalued around the league right now. Carolina might want him to pair with his brother... maybe hes the piece that nets us Faulk or something?

Train wreck of an AHL season and did next to nothing in his stint with the Wings. What could possibly make you think "he'd be overvalued around the league right now"? I'd expect the exact opposite if anything. Even if there is something there to see that would lead you to the conclusion that he won't be any good, I'm sure all the scouts around the league have seen it as well. They've probably seen more of him than you have.

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For what it's worth, here's a view of Svechnikov from a scout that writes for The Athletic:

"

Evgeny Svechnikov

As a first-round pick in 2015, Svechnikov is going to be looked upon to be a big piece of Detroit’s future. At first glance on video, he’s one of those guys that as a scout you say:

“He looks like a hockey player, he smells like a hockey player but is he a hockey player?”

All the tools are there. He’s big, he can skate, he has skill and can handle a puck really well. While watching him skate up and down the ice, it certainly looks like he belongs.

But looking at the stats and doing some research, it sounds like the kid is having a tougher transition this year. As a 21-year-old, that can happen. Lately, he has looked more and more comfortable in a Red Wings uniform the more games he has played with the big club. He had his best game against the Philadelphia Flyers and was rewarded with a goal.

His biggest strength is in his puck protection. As a big body, he does a really good job using his size to protect the puck from defenders. He made some nice plays in the corners bringing pucks to the net, and by playing a big-man’s game he scored his first career goal by getting to the net. Check out the clips below:

 

I saw some little things that he does well too, details of the game that coaches love from their players. A lot of times, it takes young players a really long time to buy in to these little details (see: Andreas Athanasiou), but they are a huge part to winning games. In the clips below, you’ll see Svechnikov getting pucks out, getting pucks in, making good decisions at the bluelines, good defensive positioning (and nice skill hitting the puck out of mid-air) and finally sacrificing his body to block a shot:

 

I’d love to see more of Svechnikov. If this is a guy that you are planning to have as a big part of your future, the Red Wings should play him more and play him with better players. He has yet to hit 10 minutes of ice time in a game or have more than 15 shifts. He has been playing with Luke Glendening and Marty Frk. I’d love to see him on the wing with Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha, instead of Darren Helm … or with Henrik Zetterberg and Gustav Nyquist instead of Tyler Bertuzzi.

I understand that you have to earn it, as coach Jeff Blashill has pointed out after games. That’s the Red Wings' mantra. But with two weeks now left in the season, let’s see what the kid can do in an elevated role."

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51 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I’d love to see more of Svechnikov. If this is a guy that you are planning to have as a big part of your future, the Red Wings should play him more and play him with better players. He has yet to hit 10 minutes of ice time in a game or have more than 15 shifts. He has been playing with Luke Glendening and Marty Frk. I’d love to see him on the wing with Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha, instead of Darren Helm.

This, so much.

Give the kid an opportunity with skilled players to see what he can do.

Some people won't admit that this organization has in the past, mismanged players. They have, and if they're not careful, Svechnikov will be the next to go by the wayside...

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Well, that's tricky right ? If I'm reading this guy's message clearly he thinks Svechnikov is playing a responsible game already, doing all the little things right, and therefore he deserves more ice time.  I think that's a little different than Jurco or Pulkkinen, for instance, in that they didn't seem to be doing all those little things.  And I tend to agree with him, a young guy who's playing the game the right way will rocket up the depth chart in Detroit (see Bertuzzi and Larkin), guys who are doing it part of the time will get part time minutes (see Mantha and AA), and guys who never learn to do it won't play.  That's probably the way it should be.

Edited by kipwinger

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On 5/18/2018 at 4:58 PM, Buppy said:

Train wreck of an AHL season and did next to nothing in his stint with the Wings. What could possibly make you think "he'd be overvalued around the league right now"? I'd expect the exact opposite if anything. Even if there is something there to see that would lead you to the conclusion that he won't be any good, I'm sure all the scouts around the league have seen it as well. They've probably seen more of him than you have.

Because hes a 21 year old former first rounder. The longer we hold on to him while the suck continues, the more value he loses. Pretty basic stuff. If we want to get the most value for him we should act now.

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23 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because hes a 21 year old former first rounder. The longer we hold on to him while the suck continues, the more value he loses. Pretty basic stuff. If we want to get the most value for him we should act now.

You'll enjoy this then:

https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2018/5/19/17364276/noah-hanifin-andrei-svechnikov-and-the-red-wings-flagging-down-canes-country-for-some-trade-talk

The big deal

In talking about what makes sense, Brian did bring up that there is a bit of smoke around Noah Hanifin. The 5th overall pick in that same 2015 draft in which the Red Wings took Svechnikov. While obviously you’re not getting that one-for-one, but in including Andreas Athanasiou, it seems we struck a balance that was the right kind of uncomfortable for both sides. Detroit would be giving up two wingers who add scoring from a team that needs a lot more scoring while Carolina would be pulling the plug on an all-star defenseman to take a gamble on an unproven guy and an electrifying-but-inconsistent youngster.

To be perfectly honest, this is probably a deal that requires Detroit to throw in slightly more value, but there’s a decent chance that the extra intangible value of the Svechnikov brother connection doesn’t boot this off the table from the get-go.

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20 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You'll enjoy this then:

https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2018/5/19/17364276/noah-hanifin-andrei-svechnikov-and-the-red-wings-flagging-down-canes-country-for-some-trade-talk

The big deal

In talking about what makes sense, Brian did bring up that there is a bit of smoke around Noah Hanifin. The 5th overall pick in that same 2015 draft in which the Red Wings took Svechnikov. While obviously you’re not getting that one-for-one, but in including Andreas Athanasiou, it seems we struck a balance that was the right kind of uncomfortable for both sides. Detroit would be giving up two wingers who add scoring from a team that needs a lot more scoring while Carolina would be pulling the plug on an all-star defenseman to take a gamble on an unproven guy and an electrifying-but-inconsistent youngster.

To be perfectly honest, this is probably a deal that requires Detroit to throw in slightly more value, but there’s a decent chance that the extra intangible value of the Svechnikov brother connection doesn’t boot this off the table from the get-go.

I hate wingingitinmotown, but yea i f***s wit it

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17 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because hes a 21 year old former first rounder. The longer we hold on to him while the suck continues, the more value he loses.

That's assuming he continues to suck. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't -- but, personally, I'm willing to bet his current trade value is pretty negligible anyway. We'd be selling low.

Like I said, he might have some value as a deal-clinching sweetener. But I reckon that's about the extent of his trade value right now.

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4 hours ago, Dabura said:

That's assuming he continues to suck. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't -- but, personally, I'm willing to bet his current trade value is pretty negligible anyway. We'd be selling low.

Like I said, he might have some value as a deal-clinching sweetener. But I reckon that's about the extent of his trade value right now.

I have cursed him with the suck. Now we must trade. 

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4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I love AA, but if him in a package brings us Hanifin, f***in A do it!

AA, Svech, VEG 1st. (If we still have it.)

That's too much. AA, Svech, First of 2 Second Rounders for Hanifin and Carolina's 3rd Rounder is where I start. I would bump it up to the VGK 1st rounder to get it done, but there has to be more than just Hanifin coming back.

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Part of me sort of believes this... 

No amount of your B. Smith/Jurco voodoo can save him now.

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