Be honest..

[Richdg 267]

6 hours ago, kliq said:

So essentially we drafted 4 players top 10 (Yzerman, LaPointe, Ward, Primeau) and of those four, two (if you count Primeau as Shanny though dont forget Coffey was involved in that trade) were major parts of our cup wins. Everyone else and the majority were late round picks which kind of goes against your narrative. You can't count  Murphy as a high pick, we traded for him. That would be like counting Vanek as a high pick now. 

I agree with you that it took years to develop as a team, but that is really no different then what the Wings are doing now as far as homegrown talent growing and maturing together goes, the big difference is that our players back then were much better. The major reason why they were better, because our foreign scouting was the best in the NHL by a mile.

You can say the 1997 and 1998 cups were due to "re-building", I believe they were due to our ability to draft amazing players in the late rounds. Something that would have been done regardless of how bad we were at any particular time.

Ward wasn't our pick we traded for him. Coffey was toast and being run out of town. He had 0 value at that point. Even though we traded for Ward and Murphy they were still top 5 picks. Murphy was a HOFer. As I have said many times you need top talent. Don't care if you draft it, trade for it, or sign it as a UFA. But the top talent is top 5 in the draft year after year. With the UFA market dead and Holland unwilling/unable to make trades that leaves us with one option. Draft it.

But heck, we can't even play the 1st round picks we do have and most of them over the last 25 years haven't worked out. Eriksson, Fischer, Kusnetsov, Wallin, Kindl, Smith, etc... and the yet to be seen MANtha, Larkin, Svechnikov, and last years pick.

[krsmith17 7,191]

33 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Coffey was toast and being run out of town. He had 0 value at that point.

Coffey was toast? Zero Value? He was still over a point per game defenseman... Put all of our current defenseman together and we still wouldn't get a player as good as Coffey was, even at 34 years old...

[kickazz 5,459]

16 hours ago, kliq said:

You know whats actually going to be key is seeing the intentions of the owners....what the Tigers do. With all the talk about potentially trading away Miggy and JV, if ownership decides to pull the trigger it could be foreshadowing for the Wings. I would put money on it that Holland does not have the green light right now to trade away the vets and do any type of not on the fly re-build. I believe his mandate is to make the playoffs. It will be interesting to see

I believe mathematically speaking the organization would have more guaranteed profit/revenue $$$ on making the playoffs every year than tanking for the next 8 years. 

If my hypothesis is correct... we already know what Mike Illitch's answer to this poll would be. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by kickazz

[Richdg 267]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Coffey was toast? Zero Value? He was still over a point per game defenseman... Put all of our current defenseman together and we still wouldn't get a player as good as Coffey was, even at 34 years old...

Yes. he was single handley blamed for our loss in the 95 Cup for his complete lack of defense. He didn't even try to play and Bowman ran him out of town because of it. His value was low because of his age, salary, and lack of D.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

10 hours ago, Richdg said:

I swear some of us most be losing our minds. When we made our first cup in 95 and finally won in 97, that was the end of 12+ years of rebuilding the team. It wasn't done on the fly and yes we had some bad years along the way.

Lets review the roster:

Stevie 4th pick in 83.

Kozlov 45th pick in 90.

Shanahan 2nd pick in 87. Picked up in a trade for Primeau 3rd pick in 90.

Lapointe 10th pick in 91.

McCarty 46th pick in 92.

Lidstrom 53rd pick in 89.

Pushor 32nd pick in 91.

Ward 5th pick in 91.

Murphy 4th pick in 80.

Point is it took years to bring all of those guys in and develop the team. Then there was the Russians all of which were drafted much lower than their talent warrented because no one knew if we could get them out from behind the iron curtian. Jimmy D did a GREAT job drafting, trading, and signing UFA's. Yes this was before the cap, but everyone was also in the same boat.

 

Which is why I said we built on the fly. Of all those players mention, we only missed the playoffs twice and that was before 1990. We never tanked it for higher picks, we never tanked it for eight years to only win once in 10. We drafted better, made trades when players weren't working out, we made moves that made UFA'S want to come play here AND  for less money than on the open market. That is what Jimmy D, Bryan Murray and Scotty brought us...Holland is nowhere near their talent, he hands out too many loyalty contracts to mediocre players, wastes our cap on mediocre players and that makes it hard to trade plus makes it unattractive for higher end UFA'S. Who wants to play with broken players with multiple years left in their deals? Who wants to play with mediocrity for the next 5+ years? Nobody. Holland has handcuffed himself with these contracts and now he can't move a 1st for a D-Man we need, there's no cap. He cannot trade anyone because they are albatross contracts. If he'd even trade someone from his precious "core." You can have Mantha, but don't ask about Nyquist? Give me a break. Holland is the problem and Blashill is handcuffed into playing this crap Holland gives him. Don't get me wrong, I praised the Vanek signing, but he was a gamble that no other team wanted. So it's not like Holland landed to best ufa on the market at the time of the signing. 

[Richdg 267]

Over the last 25 years here are our 1st round draft picks, sorry if I mispell or forget someone:

92 Bowen-nothing

93 Eriksson-nothing

94 Golubovsky-nothing

95 Kuznetsov-very little

96 Wallin-nothing

98 Fischer-very little, only one because of health/injuries

00 Kronwall-long and successful career

05 Kindl-very little

07 Smith-very little moving into the bust range

08 McCollum-nothing

10 Sheahan-3rd liner at best

13 Mantha-still too early to know

14 Larkin-still too early to know

15 Svechnikov-too early to know

16 Cholowski-way to early to know

That is 15 1st round picks over the last 25 years. I am and was completely fine with trading away the picks we moved. It helped us win cups. But look at the guys we drafted. The first 12 names on the list were all taken in the last 1/3 of the draft-pick 20 or later. Only 1 amounted to anything-Kronwall and only 1 still has a chance to do so-Mantha. The last 3 it is still too early to know anything.

The NHL average is 2 out 3 1st round picks turn into regular NHL players. We are below that. The first 11 guys have all been around long enough to have real actual info on. 3 have made it, 8 failed. TBH this is terrible drafting/developing. If it wasn't for the luck we had 20 years ago with Z, D, and Homer we would have been drafting top 5 a long time ago.

For anyone to believe that we can build through the draft without having top 5 picks, the facts don't lie. We as an organization have shown 0 ability to do that. Only 1 of our last 15 1st round picks have made it. Only 1 of those 15 is due to bad luck-Fischer. Yes the last 4 still have hope and promise. Just don't expect all 4 to make it/become stars.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

19 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Yes. he was single handley blamed for our loss in the 95 Cup for his complete lack of defense. He didn't even try to play and Bowman ran him out of town because of it. His value was low because of his age, salary, and lack of D.

When we first acquired Coffey, John Brophey was a pro scout for us. I was a Sky cap at the old Delta Airlines back then. I carried his luggage for him and we actually talked about Coffey. He asked if I was excited about him, i said of course. He told me to watch him without the puck. He is a great offensive talent, but his D us suspect. 

They knew what they were getting when they got him. Also, when Bowman came in, the talk was what's going to happen to Coffey, because bowman hated him in Pittsburgh and traded him out of there. His days were numbered when Bowman became GM.

[Richdg 267]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Which is why I said we built on the fly. Of all those players mention, we only missed the playoffs twice and that was before 1990. We never tanked it for higher picks, we never tanked it for eight years to only win once in 10. We drafted better, made trades when players weren't working out, we made moves that made UFA'S want to come play here AND  for less money than on the open market. That is what Jimmy D, Bryan Murray and Scotty brought us...Holland is nowhere near their talent, he hands out too many loyalty contracts to mediocre players, wastes our cap on mediocre players and that makes it hard to trade plus makes it unattractive for higher end UFA'S. Who wants to play with broken players with multiple years left in their deals? Who wants to play with mediocrity for the next 5+ years? Nobody. Holland has handcuffed himself with these contracts and now he can't move a 1st for a D-Man we need, there's no cap. He cannot trade anyone because they are albatross contracts. If he'd even trade someone from his precious "core." You can have Mantha, but don't ask about Nyquist? Give me a break. Holland is the problem and Blashill is handcuffed into playing this crap Holland gives him. Don't get me wrong, I praised the Vanek signing, but he was a gamble that no other team wanted. So it's not like Holland landed to best ufa on the market at the time of the signing. 

12 years is not on the fly. It was a long time coming. Yes Holland is completely to blame for this team. Everything about it is because of him-be it good or bad.

If you read my post before this it shows how bad we have been at drafting. Fact is Holland got lucky 20 years ago with Z, D, and Homer. If we hadn't we would have been drafting top 5 years ago.

Yes it is interesting that all the trade rumors that we are involved in have never have names like Nyquist or Tatar in them. Why is that? maybe because they just don't have any trade value?

[LeftWinger 5,153]

7 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Over the last 25 years here are our 1st round draft picks, sorry if I mispell or forget someone:

92 Bowen-nothing

93 Eriksson-nothing

94 Golubovsky-nothing

95 Kuznetsov-very little

96 Wallin-nothing

98 Fischer-very little, only one because of health/injuries

00 Kronwall-long and successful career

05 Kindl-very little

07 Smith-very little moving into the bust range

08 McCollum-nothing

10 Sheahan-3rd liner at best

13 Mantha-still too early to know

14 Larkin-still too early to know

15 Svechnikov-too early to know

16 Cholowski-way to early to know

That is 15 1st round picks over the last 25 years. I am and was completely fine with trading away the picks we moved. It helped us win cups. But look at the guys we drafted. The first 12 names on the list were all taken in the last 1/3 of the draft-pick 20 or later. Only 1 amounted to anything-Kronwall and only 1 still has a chance to do so-Mantha. The last 3 it is still too early to know anything.

The NHL average is 2 out 3 1st round picks turn into regular NHL players. We are below that. The first 11 guys have all been around long enough to have real actual info on. 3 have made it, 8 failed. TBH this is terrible drafting/developing. If it wasn't for the luck we had 20 years ago with Z, D, and Homer we would have been drafting top 5 a long time ago.

For anyone to believe that we can build through the draft without having top 5 picks, the facts don't lie. We as an organization have shown 0 ability to do that. Only 1 of our last 15 1st round picks have made it. Only 1 of those 15 is due to bad luck-Fischer. Yes the last 4 still have hope and promise. Just don't expect all 4 to make it/become stars.

That's the point though, you have to make trades as well. Eriksson got us Chelios, Golubovsky got us Larionov back, Kuznetsov got us Stuart. For some reason Holland just won't make the deals that need to be made. No I don't want to deal Larkin, but all of your kids aren't going to make it to Detroit, it'll be ok to deal a couple or some picks to make the team better.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm well aware of Coffey's lack of defense, but he absolutely had value as a point per game defenseman at 34 years old... Erik Karlsson plays a similar game. Does he have value? Will he have value in 8 years if he's putting up similar numbers? Absolutely.

When Holland picks a stud in the 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th / 7th round, its luck, but if he picks a dud in the 1st or 2nd, he sucks... Got it!

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I hear what you're saying, but Holland won't do what it takes to make this team better. We don't need to tank, we just need better management. 

Btw, Holmstrom was drafted in 94.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

13 minutes ago, Richdg said:

12 years is not on the fly. It was a long time coming. Yes Holland is completely to blame for this team. Everything about it is because of him-be it good or bad.

If you read my post before this it shows how bad we have been at drafting. Fact is Holland got lucky 20 years ago with Z, D, and Homer. If we hadn't we would have been drafting top 5 years ago.

Yes it is interesting that all the trade rumors that we are involved in have never have names like Nyquist or Tatar in them. Why is that? maybe because they just don't have any trade value?

But in those 12 years we never tanked it to get a higher pick. We don't need 8 years of top 5 picks to win. How has that worked out for Edmonton? It worked for Chicago, but they have the Bowman's. They have traded, signed and drafted throughout their run. Traded high end talent, draft picks and signed vets because they made it an attractive place to play.

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

I believe mathematically speaking the organization would have more guaranteed profit/revenue $$$ on making the playoffs every year than tanking for the next 8 years. 

If my hypothesis is correct... we already know what Mike Illitch's answer to this poll would be. 

 

A run to the finals would make just as much money as a whole bunch of first round exits. I bet the Blackhawks are killing it these days with deep playoff runs almost every year. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

13 hours ago, kliq said:

I don't buy the whole conspiracy angle. Why would so many journalists lie, we are not talking bloggers here, we are talking tsn guys. 

I guess its easier to cry conspiracy then to admit you may have been wrong.

who said it was a conspiracy?  writers, even TSN writers, get rumors wrong all the time.  I believe that there were teams interested in him, but not at 5 years for almost $4 mil a year, especially with the NTC thrown in.

I'd rather win the Cup every 8-10 years and miss the playoffs a few times between wins than make the playoffs every year and not win a Cup.  The Cup is the goal, not the playoffs.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Just to defend Coffey some, in 1995 he won the Norris and was 4th in Hart voting. In 1996 he had 74 points in 76 games. He was hardly toast, nor did he have zero value. Just to compare points, lidstrom only cracked 70 points like 3 or 4 times. Coffey wasn't brought here for D. Although his +/- was really  not that bad here.

 

He was basically our best D for offense. Scotty traded him to upgrade our forward position with Shanny. Plus to allow Lidstrom to take over and developer into the leader back there. For comparison if it was today and Holland had the same choice, he'd keep Coffey and suppress the youngster. That's the difference.

Edited November 16, 2016 by LeftWinger

[Barrie 900]

I get this poll, but it wouldn't take 8 years to build a cup contender again.

[kliq 3,763]

3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

who said it was a conspiracy?  writers, even TSN writers, get rumors wrong all the time.  I believe that there were teams interested in him, but not at 5 years for almost $4 mil a year, especially with the NTC thrown in.

I'd rather win the Cup every 8-10 years and miss the playoffs a few times between wins than make the playoffs every year and not win a Cup.  The Cup is the goal, not the playoffs.

Sorry but I don't buy it. If one reporter said it about one team, sure I could see it. But we are talking pretty much every reporter, and they were all saying that Helm had offers from a variety of teams. Not to mention, on July 1st these guys were pretty much bang on with everything they said.

I get it, you will never saying anything positive about the Helm or Abby contracts and everything you say about them will have a cynical/negative tone. There is no need to continue this conversation we have had 50 times since July 1st.

Edited November 15, 2016 by kliq

[LeftWinger 5,153]

33 minutes ago, Barrie said:

I get this poll, but it wouldn't take 8 years to build a cup contender again.

Exactly, it'll take strategic trades and cutting ties with players.  You have to make a deal for 1 or 2 top defenders.  DD seems to be struggling in the top 2.  You have to keep your young assets here permanently.  Larkin, AA, Mantha, Bert, Svech. and I'm liking what I hear about Givani Smith (although he may be still a tad young.)

You have to choose a goalie and go with him, thick and thin.  Mrazek is supposed to be the future, so roll with him.

Some how, some way, if possible,  cut ties with Kronwall, Ericsson, Glenny, Miller, (one of) Tatar/Nyquist, possibly B. Smith (in acquiring your top D) Howard, and possibly Sheahan.  That's a ton to get rid of and I'm not saying do it all now. Plus, I know, acquiring top end D with cost some young prospects(s.) If this is the case, so be it. I'd be ok with trading some if it gets us some players like the D we've mentioned all season long. Of course if you could just dump those guy for picks, to waivers or to retirement, then it opens up cap and spots to bring up the kids.

IMO, if all we can get is Fowler this year, that is fine.  Maybe if we clean some house, we might be able to attract Shatty to the mix via UFA.  We are probably stuck with E (unless he goes via expansion) and IMO, we can let Smith walk come July. Kronner will be LTIR sooner or later, we won't have to worry about him. You can let Miller walk, trade Glenny and one of Tats/Nyq. and most definitely Howard. That'll open up room for Fowler's salary and I believe enough to try to entice Shatty here. If we're opening up LCA with a D Corps like this:

Fowler - Shatty

DD - Sproul

Ericsson - Green

Marchy

....I think we're looking pretty good. If you have to include Marchy in deal and keep XO, that's cool too. I'd keep XO.

Now if you're replacing Glenny, Miller, Tatar with AA, Bert, Svech you have the makings of a nice kid core, with some vets to help pave the way. And yes, I am re-signing Vanek and Ott.

So here would be my lineup in order to move forward starting in 17.

Z - Larkin - Vanek

Svech - Nielsen - Nyquist

Bert - AA - Abby

Jurco - Helm - Ott

Tangradi (or who ever earns the 13th and 14th spots)

Fowler - Shatty

DD - Sproul

Ericsson - Green

XO

Mrazek

Coreau

 

Too much to ask for I know, but this could start the rebuild on the fly, and I think we'd still make the playoffs.

The most important thing(s) to do, Trade for Fowler this season, clear enough cap space to re-sign Vanek and offer Shatty a bunch. Those, along with allowing Miller and Smith to move on, we'd be much better. For the record, over the course of this season and before next I trade Mantha, Marchy, Tatar, Howard, Sheahan and Glenny. I betting on Kronwall being LTIR before too long. But.....Holland. Nuff said.

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Sorry but I don't buy it. If one reporter said it about one team, sure I could see it. But we are talking pretty much every reporter, and they were all saying that Helm had offers from a variety of teams. Not to mention, on July 1st these guys were pretty much bang on with everything they said.

I get it, you will never saying anything positive about the Helm or Abby contracts and everything you say about them will have a cynical/negative tone. There is no need to continue this conversation we have had 50 times since July 1st.

I didn't like the contracts, but I do have both on my team moving forward with the rebuild...

[kliq 3,763]

8 hours ago, Richdg said:

Ward wasn't our pick we traded for him. Coffey was toast and being run out of town. He had 0 value at that point. Even though we traded for Ward and Murphy they were still top 5 picks. Murphy was a HOFer. As I have said many times you need top talent. Don't care if you draft it, trade for it, or sign it as a UFA. But the top talent is top 5 in the draft year after year. With the UFA market dead and Holland unwilling/unable to make trades that leaves us with one option. Draft it.

But heck, we can't even play the 1st round picks we do have and most of them over the last 25 years haven't worked out. Eriksson, Fischer, Kusnetsov, Wallin, Kindl, Smith, etc... and the yet to be seen MANtha, Larkin, Svechnikov, and last years pick.

Coffey was not "toast" in 1995, he won the Norris that year. Talk about revisionist history. The guy may have had shortcomings, but you are going way over the top with your assessment.

The fact that we didnt draft Ward just add's to my point. It's not about drafting top 5, its about acquiring talent. I couldn't care less where a player is drafted if he is a contributor. Sure being drafted top 5 increases your probability of becoming a start, but its by no means any guarantee. If it were, teams like the one's I mentioned earlier would be elite by now.

Either way, its pointless going back to the 90's as a comparison. If Holland had no salary cap now, and more funds then most, I guarantee that our team would be better. Its apples and oranges.

Trading for guys that were top 5 picks 6-15 years prior to a cup win is not an argument for tanking. I feel like you are trying to create an argument where your point is that to win a cup, you need talent on your team. I dont think anyone would argue this, so I am not sure why you are making it.

Here is a question, and I honestly dont know the answer as I dont have the time right now to look it up. How many top 5 picks did our 2008 cup winning team have on it? That is probably the most recent cup winning "re-build on the fly" team other then maybe Boston.

3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Too much to ask for I know, but this could start the rebuild on the fly, and I think we'd still make the playoffs.

The most important thing(s) to do, Trade for Fowler this season, clear enough cap space to re-sign Vanek and offer Shatty a bunch. Those, along with allowing Miller and Smith to move on, we'd be much better. For the record, over the course of this season and before next I trade Mantha, Marchy, Tatar, Howard, Sheahan and Glenny. I betting on Kronwall being LTIR before too long. But.....Holland. Nuff said.

I didn't like the contracts, but I do have both on my team moving forward with the rebuild...

I'll give you credit Lefty, you hated the Helm contract but when Helm was playing well at the beginning of the season, you gave him his due. Some posters, when things don't go as bad as they predict, they just lurk in the shadows and wait for a losing streak to post again.

[kickazz 5,459]

7 hours ago, marcaractac said:

A run to the finals would make just as much money as a whole bunch of first round exits. I bet the Blackhawks are killing it these days with deep playoff runs almost every year. 

I disagree. Here's why.

Just look at our attendance rate every season in the link below. We're one of the best selling franchises in the continent. In fact we sell more tickets now  than we did in 07-08. Last season (2015-16) we sold almost as many tickets as we did in the 2001-2002 season. This is my whole point. This is exactly why Mike Illitch and family would never go for tank job. They honestly have no reason to because regardless of whether we're number 1 in the conference or number 8 and squeezing into the playoffs, the franchise is still a top selling team as far as attendance is concerned. 

Check out the link and the different years. You'll be surprised. 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/homeTotal

And with the new arena opening and ticket prices likely going up, they'll continue to have the sell out crowds and just end up making more $$ per ticket sold. Making playoffs is a win-win for them as far as dollars are concerned. Missing the playoffs and tanking for 8 years straight doesn't guarantee we make the finals. But it probably will cause them to lose faithful fans.

8 years of playoffs and 82 sold out/ nearly sold out games and maintain high ticket prices? 

8 years of tanking and by year 4 drop in attendance rate and ticket prices? 

Edited November 16, 2016 by kickazz

[kliq 3,763]

You hit the nail on the head. I 100% agree with you kickazz.

I will use myself as the perfect example. I have a season ticket package (10 game pack), I have signed up for it every year for I believe the past 4 years. If the Wings tanked and become a garbage, and I mean true garbage (not this hyperbole that fans spew on here now of how we stink) I would not renew as I have no desire to make the trip over the US (I live in Windsor) to see the Wings get killed the majority of the time.

Edited November 16, 2016 by kliq

[Richdg 267]

12 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

But in those 12 years we never tanked it to get a higher pick. We don't need 8 years of top 5 picks to win. How has that worked out for Edmonton? It worked for Chicago, but they have the Bowman's. They have traded, signed and drafted throughout their run. Traded high end talent, draft picks and signed vets because they made it an attractive place to play.

90 and 91 were bad years. That is how we ended up with the 3rd overall and 10th overall picks: Primeau and lapointe.

[Richdg 267]

10 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Just to defend Coffey some, in 1995 he won the Norris and was 4th in Hart voting. In 1996 he had 74 points in 76 games. He was hardly toast, nor did he have zero value. Just to compare points, lidstrom never cracked 70 points. Coffey wasn't brought here for D. Although his +/- was really  not that bad here.

 

He was basically our best D for offense. Scotty traded him to upgrade our forward position with Shanny. Plus to allow Lidstrom to take over and developer into the leader back there. For comparison if it was today and Holland had the same choice, he'd keep Coffey and suppress the youngster. That's the difference.

Coffey was a throw in. Bowman wanted him gone and Hartford wanted Primeau. That was why he was traded away by Hartford after 20 games. I realize this was 20 years ago now but Coffey was driven out of town by the greatest coach in NHL history for nothing.

[Richdg 267]

Forget the 8 year thing that the OP started this with. It doesn't take that long. The Hawks, Pens, Kings, etc... all have 3-5 top 10 picks, not 6 or 7 or 8. The Pens have Crosby, Malkin, and MAF. The Hawks have Kane, Toews, Hossa, and.......I am forgeting one.

Back to our drafting history, how many of the 10 picks we traded away ever turned into anything? 1 or 2? Green is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. So its not the teams drafting, it is the position that all the teams are drafting in. Below 20 and the returns are slim.

[kliq 3,763]

 

16 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Forget the 8 year thing that the OP started this with. It doesn't take that long. The Hawks, Pens, Kings, etc... all have 3-5 top 10 picks, not 6 or 7 or 8. The Pens have Crosby, Malkin, and MAF. The Hawks have Kane, Toews, Hossa, and.......I am forgeting one.

Back to our drafting history, how many of the 10 picks we traded away ever turned into anything? 1 or 2? Green is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. So its not the teams drafting, it is the position that all the teams are drafting in. Below 20 and the returns are slim.

It may take 5 years if you get your picks perfect, but when you get a couple wrong it takes ALOT longer, and that's if you ever get it right.

Chicago made the playoffs 1 time in 11 years between 1997 and 2008

LA didnt make the playoffs for 7 years.between 2002 and 2009

Pittsburgh didn't make the playoffs for 5 years, their re-build was actually done fairly quickly but lets not forget they got lucky with Crosby as that was the year where it had nothing to do with standings. but rather a random lottery where every team had a 1/30 chance to land him.

Lets not forget, these are the best 3 examples.

Lets look at some other team that have done this and not had the same success with the "top 5 picks guarantee everything to change" philosophy:

Columbus Blue Jackets - Came into the league in 2001, missed the playoffs 13 times, made the playoffs twice and did nothing. All those high picks did nothing for them. But hey, they got Nash.

Atlanta/Winnipeg - Came into the league in 2000, missed the playoffs 14 times, made the playoffs twice and did nothing. All those high picks did nothing for them. But hey, they got Heatley/Kovie/Kari Lehtonen

Carolina Hurricanes - Since their Cup, they have made the playoffs 1 time, missed the playoffs 9 times. Still waiting on their franchise player that is going to lead them to a cup.

I wont even go into the Oilers pre McDavid, its just too easy.

I could do more teams, but what's the point. I hope you see what I am getting at. Sure drafting high gives you a higher probability of finding a franchise player, nobody would deny that. But you are making it sound like re-building is some easy task that will always workout buy constantly bringing up the 3 outliers. Re-building usually fails and leaves a large percentage of the teams out of the race for years, some times up to or over a decade. Do you really want this? Do you want the Wings to become the Lions?

I would prefer the Wings trade away/dump some vets (E, Howard, Ott, Miller) play a combo of kids/vets but put more of the focus on the kids. I don't want to see every decent player older then 25 gone and traded for picks. It's not like players like Tatar/Nyquist are going to get you top 5 picks anyways.