2017 Draft

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Why do you think Holland would go off the board?

I don't necessarily think he would, although he has in the past, as recently as last year with the Cholowski pick. LeftWinger brought up the possibility of him going off the board this year. All I'm saying is that I'd be pissed if he does.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

I don't necessarily think he would, although he has in the past, as recently as last year with the Cholowski pick. LeftWinger brought up the possibility of him going off the board this year. All I'm saying is that I'd be pissed if he does.

I'm asking hypothetically. If he decided to go outside the group you've been told is the to p5, why do you think he would do it?

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm asking hypothetically. If he decided to go outside the group you've been told is the to p5, why do you think he would do it?

He's obviously going to pick whatever player he believes is the best fit for this team going forward. That doesn't necessarily make it the right pick...

I don't think Hischier or Liljegren should be as high on our radar as Patrick, Vilardi or Tippett. That's just my opinion.

I was "pissed" last year when he went off the board with the Cholowski pick, with Gauthier and Jones still available, and I still think he made the wrong choice there... However, I'm still rooting for Cholowski, just like I would / will be rooting for whoever we pick this year. That doesn't mean I'm not going to or shouldn't have a reaction to whatever player we pick.

I'm also going to have a negative reaction if we pick a whole bunch of <6'0", 160lb. players...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

He's obviously going to pick whatever player he believes is the best fit for this team going forward. That doesn't necessarily make it the right pick...

I don't think Hischier or Liljegren should be as high on our radar as Patrick, Vilardi or Tippett. That's just my opinion.

I was "pissed" last year when he went off the board with the Cholowski pick, with Gauthier and Jones still available, and I still think he made the wrong choice there... However, I'm still rooting for Cholowski, just like I would / will be rooting for whoever we pick this year. That doesn't mean I'm not going to or shouldn't have a reaction to whatever player we pick.

I'm also going to have a negative reaction if we pick a whole bunch of <6'0", 160lb. players...

That's kind of my point. He's going to select who he and his scouts believe will be the best player. If they believe that is Hirscher, I don't see any reason to be pissed about that selection. Much too soon to be upset about players that we have no idea about, and I tend to lean more towards professional opinion than online journalists.

Besides the very first pick, the top 5 almost never shakes out the way the media tells us it will. Probably because they only have a general idea on how teams value these guys.

[BadgerBob 297]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So, What If We Get #4 And Holland pulls one of his "experiment" picks in hopes he becomes  a diamond? Drafts a kid not even touted in the top 10? Would you still support Holland? I think if he drafts anyone that's not being discussed in the top 5 around the league that he should be fired and burned at the stake. I'm also going to be very angry if one of the top 3 centers or tippet is sitting there and he drafts Liljegren or that small under sized center Hischier...

So like when he picked Cholowski? Wasn't he rated like a late 2nd round pick?

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That's kind of my point. He's going to select who he and his scouts believe will be the best player. If they believe that is Hirscher, I don't see any reason to be pissed about that selection. Much too soon to be upset about players that we have no idea about, and I tend to lean more towards professional opinion than online journalists.

Besides the very first pick, the top 5 almost never shakes out the way the media tells us it will. Probably because they only have a general idea on how teams value these guys.

I'm a big fan of the draft, look forward to it every year. I get the impression, you're not, and you'd prefer to just wait and see how each player turns out. Is that a fair assumption? You probably won't care if we take Patrick or Hischier, because you trust in Holland and his staff. You won't have much of a reaction one way or the other, and will see how it turns out 3-5 years from now? Me on the other hand, I will react to each and every pick, in every round, whether just or not. I'm usually pretty level headed, but if I'm pissed off about a selection, or stoked about a selection, I'll say so, after all this is a discussion board, thread on the upcoming draft...

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't know who "will be better", but I know "who is projected to be better" based on scouting reports and mock drafts. We should be drafting the best player available that suits the team needs. We don't need another undersized, play-making center. Who knows, maybe Hischier develops into the best player in this draft, 3-5 years from now, but as it sits today, I'd take any of the 3 ahead of him.

I don't doubt for a second that there are much smarter hockey brains in that room than you or I, but that doesn't mean we can't question decisions they make, and if Holland were to go off the board, as a fan of the team, I would be pissed...

In what way would Hischier be "off the board"? He's pretty much the consensus #2, and I've seen him ranked ahead of Patrick as often as behind Vilardi or Tippett.  Similar for Liljegren.

And for LW, and others of like mind; Cholowski wasn't really an off-the-board pick either. Despite the attempt to create yet another dips*** Holland-sucks-meme, there is no such thing as "one of his "experiment" picks". Cholowski was a late riser, ranked as a mid-round pick for much of the year, but moved up to borderline first-round by draft time. And he was the top-ranked defenseman available. Funny how people constantly ***** about our defense, and how we have no good defense prospects, and we need to draft a defenseman no matter what...then when that very thing happens, we draft by position rather than by ranking, everyone loses their minds over it.

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, Buppy said:

In what way would Hischier be "off the board"? He's pretty much the consensus #2, and I've seen him ranked ahead of Patrick as often as behind Vilardi or Tippett.  Similar for Liljegren.

And for LW, and others of like mind; Cholowski wasn't really an off-the-board pick either. Despite the attempt to create yet another dips*** Holland-sucks-meme, there is no such thing as "one of his "experiment" picks". Cholowski was a late riser, ranked as a mid-round pick for much of the year, but moved up to borderline first-round by draft time. And he was the top-ranked defenseman available. Funny how people constantly ***** about our defense, and how we have no good defense prospects, and we need to draft a defenseman no matter what...then when that very thing happens, we draft by position rather than by ranking, everyone loses their minds over it.

Where did I ever say Hischier would be "off the board"? When I said off the board, I was referring to what LeftWinger said, not even thinking about Hischier. The reason I don't want Hischier has nothing to with him as a player, it's that he doesn't fit this teams needs. Maybe you feel that we need another undersized, left-handed, play-making center, but I'd disagree. Me personally, I'd much rather one of the big, right-shooting centers, something this team has been lacking for quite some time.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

39 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm a big fan of the draft, look forward to it every year. I get the impression, you're not, and you'd prefer to just wait and see how each player turns out. Is that a fair assumption? You probably won't care if we take Patrick or Hischier, because you trust in Holland and his staff. You won't have much of a reaction one way or the other, and will see how it turns out 3-5 years from now? Me on the other hand, I will react to each and every pick, in every round, whether just or not. I'm usually pretty level headed, but if I'm pissed off about a selection, or stoked about a selection, I'll say so, after all this is a discussion board, thread on the upcoming draft...

Pretty much how I feel.

I'm not saying you can't react, I just think being "pissed off" because we selected Hirscher is a bit ridiculous and over the top.

38 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Nothing against Holland, and our scouts, but I tend to believe in the professional opinions of the NHL's Central Scouting more so...

Why?

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Pretty much how I feel.

I'm not saying you can't react, I just think being "pissed off" because we selected Hirscher is a bit ridiculous and over the top.

Why?

That's fine. But to be fair, when I say "pissed off", it's not like I'd be b****ing about it years from when it happens, or even days for that matter. If we did luck into winning the draft lottery and we picked Hischier, I would be pissed, but all you'll get from me is a "F*** Ken Holland!" post... and maybe a few other comments that day. But the next day Hischier would be my new favorite prospect...

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for Patrick, Vilardi or Tippett...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

That's fine. But to be fair, when I say "pissed off", it's not like I'd be b****ing about it years from when it happens, or even days for that matter. If we did luck into winning the draft lottery and we picked Hischier, I would be pissed, but all you'll get from me is a "F*** Ken Holland!" post... and maybe a few other comments that day. But the next day Hischier would be my new favorite prospect...

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for Patrick, Vilardi or Tippett...

That's fair. I would raise an eyebrow if Holland did not select Patrick with the first overall.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

If the Wings are winning the lottery and they don't pick Nolan then I would be pissed. Hirschier will be a good player one day but the guy is exactly what the Wings don't need small, soft and very skilled. Nolan is already 200 lbs+ and would instantly become the best prospect the Wings have as would Hirschier but Hirschier is a guy you pick when you already have a good amount of size and size on the line you envision him on.

For me it's either Patrick or Tippet or Foote

[kickazz 5,459]

To answer the question, if Holland drafted the guy ya'll didn't want , yes I'd be thrilled to see the reaction. 

Would grab popcorn and beer too. 

I'm going to be happy with whoever they pick. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

50 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Don't take this the wrong way, and I agree with your train of thought - however most of our 'top picks' these past several years have been underwhelming.

By what standard? Because by any reasonable standard of what should be expected of players where we've picked, we have been, as usual, above average.

45 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Where did I ever say Hischier would be "off the board"? When I said off the board, I was referring to what LeftWinger said, not even thinking about Hischier. The reason I don't want Hischier has nothing to with him as a player, it's that he doesn't fit this teams needs. Maybe you feel that we need another undersized, left-handed, play-making center, but I'd disagree. Me personally, I'd much rather one of the big, right-shooting centers, something this team has been lacking for quite some time.

Well, in direct response to LW you said (paraphraising) "I agree, he shouldn't draft Hischier". Seemed to me implying that you consider him an "experiment" pick. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

To answer the question, if Holland drafted the guy ya'll didn't want , yes I'd be thrilled to see the reaction. 

Would grab popcorn and beer too. 

I'm going to be happy with whoever they pick. 

Watch Holland get a top 3 pick and trade down.

The reaction would be worth it lol

[kickazz 5,459]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Watch Holland get a top 3 pick and trade down.

The reaction would be worth it lol

To free up cap space for a possible run at Tavares next year. And Tavares doesnt even end up talking to Detroit and resigns with Islanders.

I would die of laughter.

Edited March 14, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

To free up cap space for a possible run at Tavares next year. And Tavares doesnt even end up talking to Detroit and resigns with Islanders.

I would die of laughter.

I also use humor so I don't have to feel real emotions

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, kickazz said:

To answer the question, if Holland drafted the guy ya'll didn't want , yes I'd be thrilled to see the reaction. 

Would grab popcorn and beer too. 

I'm going to be happy with whoever they pick. 

I prefer nachos and beer, to actually watch the draft, rather than how people react to the draft on a forum. That's just me though...

14 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Well, in direct response to LW you said (paraphraising) "I agree, he shouldn't draft Hischier". Seemed to me implying that you consider him an "experiment" pick. 

I didn't imply that at all. I even said a player that "suits the team needs. We don't need another undersized, play-making center." That's the reason I don't want Hischier, nothing to do with me thinking he would be an "experiment pick"...

32 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

If the Wings are winning the lottery and they don't pick Nolan then I would be pissed. Hirschier will be a good player one day but the guy is exactly what the Wings don't need small, soft and very skilled. Nolan is already 200 lbs+ and would instantly become the best prospect the Wings have as would Hirschier but Hirschier is a guy you pick when you already have a good amount of size and size on the line you envision him on.

For me it's either Patrick or Tippet or Foote

I agree with you, but any reason you didn't mention Vilardi? I don't expect Foote to go in the top half of the first round, but I'd love to trade up to get him around 20, if he's still on the board.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I prefer nachos and beer, to actually watch the draft, rather than how people react to the draft on a forum. That's just me though...

I didn't imply that at all. I even said a player that "suits the team needs. We don't need another undersized, play-making center." That's the reason I don't want Hischier, nothing to do with me thinking he would be an "experiment pick"...

I went to the draft last year in Buffalo. Old timer, probably in his 60's, sits down next to me about 10 minutes before the draft is supposed to start. In that 10 minutes he kills two tall boys of barley pop and explains to me that he drove down from Toronto to see the draft. Leafs brass comes out and selects Matthews. As soon as the selection is made the old timer says "welp, enjoy the draft" and walks out.

He literally drove 2 hours from Toronto to see one pick and kill 3 beers. He was in that seat for all of 15 minutes. Now that's how you enjoy a draft (I think there might be a pun there)

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I agree with you, but any reason you didn't mention Vilardi? I don't expect Foote to go in the top half of the first round, but I'd love to trade up to get him around 20, if he's still on the board.

You are right I forgot to mention him would pick him over Hirschier for sure. Wings need to trade Green before the draft in order to get a second first round pick and maybe luck out by getting Patrick and Foote.

[kipwinger 8,770]

I actually think we DO need a playmaking center.  I'd be thrilled with him if Holland drafted him.  Aside from the fact that he doesn't have Patrick's injury history (which is very troubling given the nature of his injuries), he's by all accounts a very good set up guy.  We need that.  If the organization insists on using AA as a winger going forward, our future top six wingers will be some combination of AA, Mantha, Svech, and one of Tatar or Nyquist.  Those guys need someone who can get them the puck and make plays.  It's SUPER important to have good playmakers as top six centers.  Hischier is a bit small now, but he'll grow.  He's only 18 and is the exact same size Datsyuk and Zetterberg were when drafted.  He'll fill out. 

Also, it's much less important for a center to shoot right or left than a defenseman or winger because they don't play on the wall.  So I wouldn't worry about that. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Why?

The guys who work for the NHL's Central Scouting are less biased (and is they don't see a 'need' to fill unlike our scouts, and GM), and all they do is live on coffee/donuts, and watch countless games throughout the world.

They see, and rate top players based on who they stack up regardless of their position.

That's my take on these guys in comparison to any NHL team scouts/GM.

My take is, any central scouting guys with an actual eye for talent/potential would be poached by an NHL front office immediately.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Wonder how much the beers cost?

5 to 10 dollar range I'm sure

[kipwinger 8,770]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Don't take this the wrong way, and I agree with your train of thought - however most of our 'top picks' these past several years have been underwhelming.

Our top picks the last several years have been Mantha, Larkin, Svech, and Cholowski.  Hardly "underwhelming".  Other than the obvious "top of the draft" guys like Matthews, nobody picked 15-20 has turned out any better than the guys we selected. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Hmm - If they were bought in the arena - I bet he paid $12 plus.

Was in Minneapolis this past December at the Vikings new home for a Monster Truck event (my 3 lil'dudes love that redneck $hit).

A 16 oz Tall Boy Blue Moon was $15...Bastards.

He was drinking Labatt.

I actually think they priced the beer cheaper than what is normal for the draft. The draft in real time is incredibly boring, especially after the first round, so it kind of becomes a drinking event/social event for fans. At least that was my experience.

Edited March 14, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs