Coreau/Howard

[kickazz 5,459]

Mrazek probably has more trade value than Howard. 

We wouldn't get jack s*** for Howard.

Higher chance of getting a top 1 D-man for Mrazek. No chance of getting top 1D for Howard. Not even in a package unless it's an addition for salary dump, which even that isn't going to happen.

So the question is, do you try to fix the defense and keep an "average" goalie? Or do you hang on to Mrazek hoping he turns out to be as good as he's hyped up to be?

Coreau might not seem impressive but he's a big goalie and that's all it takes for goalies these days (look at how Ben Bishop wrecks us every playoff series). Ben Bishop is not a very skilled goalie btw.

The Canadians have Price, but they also have elite players like Weber, Pacioretty, and great players like Galchenyuk.

In the future, I'd rather have :

#1 center (Larkin)

#1 goal scorer (Mantha)

#1 defenseman (whoever we trade Mrazek for)

goalie (Howard/Coreau)

 

Rather than-

#1 center (Larkin)

#1 goal scorer (Mantha)

zero defense

Maybe Mrazek ends up being elite...?

---

Hypothetically if available we're not gettig a top 1 D man unless it's for Mantha, Larkin or maybe Mrazek.

Pick your poison. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by kickazz

[xault 272]

21 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Mrazek probably has more trade value than Howard. 

We wouldn't get jack s*** for Howard.

Higher chance of getting a top 1 D-man for Mrazek. No chance of getting top 1D for Howard. Not even in a package unless it's an addition for salary dump, which even that isn't going to happen.

So the question is, do you try to fix the defense and keep an "average" goalie? Or do you hang on to Mrazek hoping he turns out to be as good as he's hyped up to be?

Coreau might not seem impressive but he's a big goalie and that's all it takes for goalies these days (look at how Ben Bishop wrecks us every playoff series). Ben Bishop is not a very skilled goalie btw.

The Canadians have Price, but they also have elite players like Weber, Pacioretty, and great players like Galchenyuk.

In the future, I'd rather have :

#1 center (Larkin)

#1 goal scorer (Mantha)

#1 defenseman (whoever we trade Mrazek for)

goalie (Howard/Coreau)

 

Rather than-

#1 center (Larkin)

#1 goal scorer (Mantha)

zero defense

Maybe Mrazek ends up being elite...?

---

Hypothetically if available we're not gettig a top 1 D man unless it's for Mantha, Larkin or maybe Mrazek.

Pick your poison. 

Sorry I don't think we even have a chance at getting 1# Dman for any goalie we have, even for Mrazek. 

Rest of what you say I can agree with. You don't need a elite goalie to win the cup. It's better to have Elite D, than Elite Goalie in my opinion. Average goalie can get hot anytime in the playoffs. But Mrazek not going to get us a #1 Dman. Maybe in the future, but not this season.

.

[kickazz 5,459]

Which is why I used the terms "most likely" and "hypothetically" and "maybe Mrazek"

Edited January 4, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/01/work_ethic_attitude_keys_to_ge.html#incart_river_index

Didn't see this posted elsewhere. Sorry if it was.

Quote

Perhaps Mrazek's attitude could be better. Following Howard's injury Dec. 20 in Tampa Bay, Jared Coreau was recalled from Grand Rapids and coach Jeff Blashill started him in Florida on Dec. 23.

Mrazek was upset. The back-up goalie typically stays on the ice after practice, getting extra work and giving injured players someone to shoot on. Mrazek left the ice after practice at BB&T Center and refused to return after being confronted by one of his teammates.

Is he becoming difficult to coach? Holland doesn't think so. He chalked it up to a young goalie facing adversity for the first time in his career and not handling it well

 

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/01/work_ethic_attitude_keys_to_ge.html#incart_river_index

Didn't see this posted elsewhere. Sorry if it was.

I mentioned this in the Conflict in the Crease thread. To me it speaks volumes to why the coaching staff seems to have lost confidence in Mrazek. He seems to have developed a sense of entitlement and is now throwing a fit like a petulant child. The fact that even after being confronted by a teammate he refused is not good. Hopefully its just a young kid lacking maturity and acting out but really at 24 he should be handling things better.

[kickazz 5,459]

Written by Ansar Khan too. Source is valid. I had a feeling Mrazek was a drama queen with his interviews he did with the Czech last year talking about how him and Howard "aren't really friends" or whatever the quote was.

Keep things to yourself, keep your head high and work with the system. They're your superiors, deal with it.

Edited January 4, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

So after not being selected to start he walked off the ice when he was supposed to stick around. And a teammate confronted him about it, and he still refused to go back on to the ice. Imagine if that teammate who confronted him was Zetterberg (just assuming because he's captain). This kid is not doing himself any favors with the way he is playing and acting.

A little public humiliation seemed to fix Mantha. Hopefully this will do the same. Still this solidifies in my mind that Mraz has become the expendable one in net.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I mentioned this in the Conflict in the Crease thread. To me it speaks volumes to why the coaching staff seems to have lost confidence in Mrazek. He seems to have developed a sense of entitlement and is now throwing a fit like a petulant child. The fact that even after being confronted by a teammate he refused is not good. Hopefully its just a young kid lacking maturity and acting out but really at 24 he should be handling things better.

Package him up with Tatar, Goose and hope someone has an expendable top 4 defender to offer.
Last thing a rebuilding team needs is a prima donna!

[kickazz 5,459]

Mantha was actually publically humiliated handled it will (I believe)



AA was benched, handled it well.



Mrazek gets benched, acts like a little kid.


Sorry, not the Red Wing way at all.
 

Edited January 4, 2017 by kickazz

[NerveDamage 4,176]

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

A little public humiliation seemed to fix Mantha. Hopefully this will do the same. Still this solidifies in my mind that Mraz has become the expendable one in net.

honest question here, when did that happen?

[kickazz 5,459]

Happened in 2015 and 2016.
Accused of having a "disappointing season" by Devalano, called a "spare part" by Holland in 2016.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

5 minutes ago, NerveDamage said:

honest question here, when did that happen?

Link

 

[Buppy 1,720]

4 minutes ago, NerveDamage said:

honest question here, when did that happen?

It didn't really, people just over-reacted to some (true) statements made about him from Devellano and Holland. 

Much like people are over-reacting to this news. He got pissed that the team chose to go with a guy who had one (poor) NHL game over him. Acted a bit unprofessional about it. Not a big deal and I'd bet stuff like that happens far, far more often than we hear about. But when people get down on a player they start looking for anything they can find to criticize.

Mrazek could say he likes puppies, and 40 people would post the pic of that "Mrazek hates puppies" sign, and only 38 of them would be joking. 6 more people would be offended by his dislike for kittens. Fandom at it's fandomest.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, Buppy said:

It didn't really, people just over-reacted to some (true) statements made about him from Devellano and Holland. 

Much like people are over-reacting to this news. He got pissed that the team chose to go with a guy who had one (poor) NHL game over him. Acted a bit unprofessional about it. Not a big deal and I'd bet stuff like that happens far, far more often than we hear about. But when people get down on a player they start looking for anything they can find to criticize.

Mrazek could say he likes puppies, and 40 people would post the pic of that "Mrazek hates puppies" sign, and only 38 of them would be joking. 6 more people would be offended by his dislike for kittens. Fandom at it's fandomest.

It's more telling the fact that the Wings are letting this leak to the public to me. They rarely ever let drama out from behind closed doors, and when they do, like with Mantha, it seems to have a purpose. Hence why I made the comment that hopefully this shames him a bit into fixing his attitude. He has a problem and they want to fix it.

[kickazz 5,459]

People also make excuses for people they're repeatedly defending and justify humiliation for Mantha when their narrative has been against him for years

[NerveDamage 4,176]

thanks for the replies and info guys

[kickazz 5,459]

Right, it's up to the Red Wings to let this information out. Thinking outside the box goes a long way when it comes to media manipulation and reported news.

They obviously want the fans and general public to know the information.

Could have easily covered up for Mrazek. And don't be naive to think they haven't covered for other players they want to.

[THATANK911 17]

If the wings plan to have Mrazek as the future and dont want to trade or risk him going to Vegas, His butt would be back in the AHL till he could handle it, and get his game back to where it was. I know our D is bad but he should be out playing Howard, not the other way around.

[THATANK911 17]

5 minutes ago, THATANK911 said:

If the wings plan to have Mrazek as the future and dont want to trade or risk him going to Vegas, His butt would be back in the AHL till he could handle it, and get his game back to where it was. I know our D is bad but he should be out playing Howard, not the other way around.

Ill add this Send him down till he decides he wants it more than the other guy. And wants to out work the other guy. I mean this example isnt fair really, but how many times you see little ol Pavel in the boards with 2 guys on top of him and he come out with the puck. Under sized not as strong, he just wanted it more, out worked them.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, THATANK911 said:

Ill add this Send him down till he decides he wants it more than the other guy. And wants to out work the other guy. I mean this example isnt fair really, but how many times you see little ol Pavel in the boards with 2 guys on top of him and he come out with the puck. Under sized not as strong, he just wanted it more, out worked them.

 

8 minutes ago, THATANK911 said:

If the wings plan to have Mrazek as the future and dont want to trade or risk him going to Vegas, His butt would be back in the AHL till he could handle it, and get his game back to where it was. I know our D is bad but he should be out playing Howard, not the other way around.

To send him down we'd have to expose him to waivers. So that's only going to happen if Holland is comfortable with giving him away for free.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

2 minutes ago, ami said:

this exact moment screwed everything for Petr:

From that day on, he think he is alike Dom.

 

I was thinking the same the other day, he met his childhood hero, and didn't get the response he would have expected from Dom, thus shattering his world. Either that or he partied too hard for his 24th b-day and is still hungover, poor Petr.

[ami 273]

this exact moment screwed everything for Petr:

From that day on, he think he is alike Dom.

 

[Z and D for the C 712]

My impression of Mrazek is he is a fundamentally poor goalie. He's had flashes of brilliance but he has terrible positioning and overplays the puck way too much and he's constantly getting burned on it. He is super aggressive to compensate for being an otherwise poor goalie so either he overplays the puck and gets burned a lot or he stays in his net and can't make saves. His play style may have worked in the AHL, etc where players aren't as good but it's not transferring well into the NHL except when he was inexplicably hot last year. Not to mention he is clearly a drama queen and has an attitude problem. I even see it when he handles the puck behind the net - he gingerly slides back to the goal as if he thinks his passes are so perfect that he doesn't have to put in effort to get back in net - and it's burned him multiple times. Not to mention when he got pissed off a Helm for having a puck deflect off him accidentally. Clear attitude issues.

My extremely brief impression of Coreau (from this past pre-season and the few games this year) is that he is a fundamentally sound goalie but still has some growing to do. I'll take the fundamentally sound goalie over the goalie who is flashy but has poor fundamentals.

As for Howard, he may not be the best goalie in the league (I mean that literally, he isn't the best goalie in the league) but the fact is he is an elite goaltenders despite how much people may dislike him and be in love with Mrazek just because he's young and flashy. Howard has at least a few year left of being elite. We can't keep both Coreau and Mzarek long term so I think we should ride Howard for a few more years until Coreau is ready and let Las Vegas have Mrazek.

 

I don't claim to be an expert on goaltending, but this is just my instinct and my opinion.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Z and D for the C

[Buppy 1,720]

4 hours ago, kickazz said:

People also make excuses for people they're repeatedly defending and justify humiliation for Mantha when their narrative has been against him for years

Not excusing anything. I said it was unprofessional. I just don't think that's any big deal, and concluding that he's a prima donna or a drama queen, or saying we should trade him over it is over-reacting.

Nor am I justifying anything regarding Mantha, because there's nothing to justify. And I'm not against Mantha either, nor ever have been. His first season in GR was disappointing. No other way to put it. Acknowledging that doesn't make it some terrible attack on the kid or an attempt to humiliate him. A disappointing first pro season. Happens all the time. I'm sure even to guys who go on to have great careers. It's no big deal, and neither was talking about it.

Fans are the only ones who made a big deal of the statement. Many argued that his season wasn't disappointing, and expectations were just too high, and then ironically those same people got mad again when Holland said basically that we shouldn't expect too much from Mantha. If Mantha had anything to be embarrassed by (and I don't think he did) it was that what Holland and Devellano said was true, not that they said it.

[kickazz 5,459]

21 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Not excusing anything. I said it was unprofessional. I just don't think that's any big deal, and concluding that he's a prima donna or a drama queen, or saying we should trade him over it is over-reacting.

Nor am I justifying anything regarding Mantha, because there's nothing to justify. And I'm not against Mantha either, nor ever have been. His first season in GR was disappointing. No other way to put it. Acknowledging that doesn't make it some terrible attack on the kid or an attempt to humiliate him. A disappointing first pro season. Happens all the time. I'm sure even to guys who go on to have great careers. It's no big deal, and neither was talking about it.

Fans are the only ones who made a big deal of the statement. Many argued that his season wasn't disappointing, and expectations were just too high, and then ironically those same people got mad again when Holland said basically that we shouldn't expect too much from Mantha. If Mantha had anything to be embarrassed by (and I don't think he did) it was that what Holland and Devellano said was true, not that they said it.

Who said we should trade Mrazek over those actions anyways? And if he can't handle adversity and is reacting on immature defense mechanisms, then yeah, he is being an egotistical immature brat. 

As far as Mantha, It doesn't matter if you think what Devallano or Holland said is true. Calling someone a "spare part" but historically making excuses for other players who have similar or worse performances seems pretty biased. Regardless the point is, we didn't see Mantha ***** out. Whereas Mrazek gets benched and decides to be a boy wonder rebel over the smallest thing in practice. It's pretty petty.

So yeah, I'm calling Mrazek out. What's the problem with that? You don't have an issue with Holland calling Mantha out (unprofessionally), so what's your issue with fans calling Mrazek out? If what Ansar Khan is writing about true and if he was being stubborn then I stand by my opinion. 

In the real world if I had a worker that failed to show up to his shift because he didn't get a pay raise or didn't get picked to lead a project, that worker is going to have a damn tough time under me until his work ethic got better. I'd make sure of that. 

Cancerous people are just a detriment to team settings. Maybe it was a one time thing (I highly doubt it if they let it reach the media), Nonetheless, Mrazek is still young, he can still learn. But what he did was definitely not a quality I'd want in someone who was on my team (whether it's a sport or work place). He needs to mature up and deal with it better. Practice or games, you're part of a team, you're counted upon, you get paid, you are expected to be there. End of story. 

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by kickazz