2017 NHLTrade Deadline Discussion

[LeftWinger 4,953]

11 hours ago, kliq said:

I agree we need to get rid of some players, but you know that not all players are going to be all stars right? If a guy like Nyquist can score 25-30 goals and get 60 points, that is solid production from a secondary scorer getting paid just over 4mil per year. The key is to mix high end talent with secondary scoring, the problem is that right now ALL we have is secondary scoring.

I'd be happy as a pig in slop if Nyquist scored 25-30 goals. But, as we have seen this season and last, he hasn't. My point was, how long are we going to say, maybe next year he bounces back...maybe next year...maybe next year...maybe....not. Tatar has been the same way, although he has picked it up some lately, but again, how long. He'll probably get at least Nyquist money this off season, and then if he continues to only score 10-20 goals, then what, do we wait for his "playoff Franzen" to reappear?

We're going to lose a player to Vegas, I hope its Nyquist, but either way, we need to shed salary and a few roster spots in order to start this rebuild the right way...but in reality, we all know Holland doesn't want a rebuild, he wants to hold on to these overpaid, under performing players and hope that, one year, their "playoff Franzen's" show back up.

I was encouraged by the audio that he said that he believes that there are a few players in GR that are ready to be in Detroit within the next 6-18 months... I'm ready to build this core of players that will be together for the next dynasty, I'm so ready!

[kliq 3,755]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd be happy as a pig in slop if Nyquist scored 25-30 goals. But, as we have seen this season and last, he hasn't. My point was, how long are we going to say, maybe next year he bounces back...maybe next year...maybe next year...maybe....not. Tatar has been the same way, although he has picked it up some lately, but again, how long. He'll probably get at least Nyquist money this off season, and then if he continues to only score 10-20 goals, then what, do we wait for his "playoff Franzen" to reappear?

We're going to lose a player to Vegas, I hope its Nyquist, but either way, we need to shed salary and a few roster spots in order to start this rebuild the right way...but in reality, we all know Holland doesn't want a rebuild, he wants to hold on to these overpaid, under performing players and hope that, one year, their "playoff Franzen's" show back up.

I was encouraged by the audio that he said that he believes that there are a few players in GR that are ready to be in Detroit within the next 6-18 months... I'm ready to build this core of players that will be together for the next dynasty, I'm so ready!

If this was a situation where our team was producing, but just Nyquist was not I would agree. But we have a team where EVERY single player minus Z and Vanek have regressed. Bring in the right coach, and IMO Nyquist will score 60 points. I dont want to lose him for nothing, or for some s***ty pick, IMO he has too much value. If he brings in a top 4 D-man, sure trade him, but you don't trade someone when their trade value is at an all time low.

I would rather LV take E or Howard.

[Dabura 12,207]

18 hours ago, kliq said:

I agree we need to get rid of some players, but you know that not all players are going to be all stars right? If a guy like Nyquist can score 25-30 goals and get 60 points, that is solid production from a secondary scorer getting paid just over 4mil per year. The key is to mix high end talent with secondary scoring, the problem is that right now ALL we have is secondary scoring.

Agreed.

I think coaching has hampered the team this season; I think that with better coaching, this is a playoff team. BUT, at the end of the day, The Real Problem is that we lack top-end talent. Because we lack top-end talent, virtually every skater on the roster has to play above his station, and that inevitably leads to players struggling to produce (and that would be the case even with really good coaching). That's not to say we should give Nyquist a free pass for the disappointing season he's having. Rather, the point is that he's not really A Problem. He is what he is, which is a solid playmaking winger, a secondary scorer. And, honestly, he's one of our better players. So, if we're looking to move him, it shouldn't be for the sake of moving him. It should be in exchange for a really good young player (preferably a defenseman) and/or a high pick.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

If this was a situation where our team was producing, but just Nyquist was not I would agree. But we have a team where EVERY single player minus Z and Vanek have regressed. Bring in the right coach, and IMO Nyquist will score 60 points. I dont want to lose him for nothing, or for some s***ty pick, IMO he has too much value. If he brings in a top 4 D-man, sure trade him, but you don't trade someone when their trade value is at an all time low.

I would rather LV take E or Howard.

That's exactly how I felt about Jurco / feel about Sheahan. I'd still prefer if we had kept Jurco rather than trading him for the 3rd, but there's no question Holland got good value for a player that was a regular healthy scratch. 

If Nyquist or Tatar are traded, they should be part of a package to bring in a defenseman. It would be dumb to trade them for a pick, or worse again, leave one of them unprotected in the expansion draft...

[kliq 3,755]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

That's exactly how I felt about Jurco / feel about Sheahan. I'd still prefer if we had kept Jurco rather than trading him for the 3rd, but there's no question Holland got good value for a player that was a regular healthy scratch. 

If Nyquist or Tatar are traded, they should be part of a package to bring in a defenseman. It would be dumb to trade them for a pick, or worse again, leave one of them unprotected in the expansion draft...

100% agree. Now that we got rid of Vanek, it would have been the perfect time to put Jurco on the 2nd or 3rd line and have him show us what he can do. Given his value, I think the return was good, but I would have given him one last shot, and that traded him in the off season. With that being said, I have to think there was more to the Jurco situation that we are not privy to.

[Dabura 12,207]

On 3/2/2017 at 7:41 AM, krsmith17 said:

I do think we "could" be a lot closer than some people think, if the right moves are made, but I do agree, Nolan Patrick would not be able to carry this team in his rookie season the way Matthews or McDavid have their respective teams. When people keep saying, "this is a weak draft", they're talking about the talent at the top. There's some very good young players at the top, but no true studs. I'm sure the 2nd round and onward are much the same as past draft classes, with some decent players, some busts as well as some steals. In saying that, I do hope we can somehow draft one of Patrick or Vilardi, because either would help this team immensely. I'm also still holding out hope that we can make some moves this summer, to offload some big contracts, add a couple more picks, possibly move up in the draft, and maybe even add a top pair defenseman...

A lot can still happen between now and October...

I'm definitely holding out hope that the road ahead isn't a long and painful one. If we can draft Patrick/Vilardi, Kailer Yamamoto/Nick Suzuki (someone here mentioned these two a couple days ago, which is cool, cuz they've both been ony my radar for a while now), and then Andrei Svechnikov next year...that's a collection of talent to be really f****** excited about. Flip Nyquist/Tatar + Mantha/Larkin/Athanasiou for a top-pairing defenseman and, in theory, we're back on track -- all within a couple years. But then, that's probably wishful thinking.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Though I really like Jurco, I think it was time for him to move on. Too many years of him being scratched regularly and him struggling. Without their being anything else behind the scenes, that can be a toxic history that gets in the way of a player getting it together. A change of scenery and a fresh mindset is essential sometimes. Holland even said him and his agent said he'd rather be elsewhere (a.k.a. asked for a trade).

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

That's exactly how I felt about Jurco / feel about Sheahan. I'd still prefer if we had kept Jurco rather than trading him for the 3rd, but there's no question Holland got good value for a player that was a regular healthy scratch. 

If Nyquist or Tatar are traded, they should be part of a package to bring in a defenseman. It would be dumb to trade them for a pick, or worse again, leave one of them unprotected in the expansion draft...

If we can't get that dman for nyquist/Tatar it would be beyond idiotic to trade one for a pick or leave them exposed , chances are they'll rebound back to 25-30 goals

 

i blame it on Blashill , sheahan scoring nothing , abdelkader as bad as his contract is shouldn't be this bad 

 

blame it on Jeff 

[marcaractac 3,963]

37 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Everyone is missing the point that Holland has proven inefficient as a negotiator.  Bowman helped orchestrate all the deals that set us up for cups.  Since his departure, Ken Holland might as well be called "Grand Master Fleeced".  We have diddly poo in our farm system, and 6-8 major positions to fill.  This is going to be a brutal stretch for us Wings fans.  I am hating it right now.

 

He fleeced NYR for Smith and got less than he hoped for Vanek due to the market for wingers being weak. I fail to see your point. 

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Everyone is missing the point that Holland has proven inefficient as a negotiator.  Bowman helped orchestrate all the deals that set us up for cups.  Since his departure, Ken Holland might as well be called "Grand Master Fleeced".  We have diddly poo in our farm system, and 6-8 major positions to fill.  This is going to be a brutal stretch for us Wings fans.  I am hating it right now.

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

How did NY get fleeced?  A 2nd round pick and a third round pick.  Yippee.

Are you Tom from Livonia or Sam from Southfield? You remind me of someone on another board.

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[kickazz 5,459]

30 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Are you Tom from Livonia or Sam from Southfield? You remind me of someone on another board.

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He's Bill Berzeench. You know this Dickie. 

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Everyone is missing the point that Holland has proven inefficient as a negotiator.  Bowman helped orchestrate all the deals that set us up for cups.  Since his departure, Ken Holland might as well be called "Grand Master Fleeced".  We have diddly poo in our farm system, and 6-8 major positions to fill.  This is going to be a brutal stretch for us Wings fans.  I am hating it right now.

This is just speculation.

Look, if you want to give a fair assessment about Ken Holland, it's this. Ken Holland is a GM who thrived in the pre-cap era. His best attributes are creating a culture that players love to be in, and never want to leave. In the non-cap era this worked out extremely well as with the exception of Fedorov he really didn't lose anyone he didn't want to lose. He let LaPointe walk, and obviously that didn't hurt us at all.

Then there is Holland post-cap. Initially he thrived and put together likely the most impressive of all the teams he has put together (not based on skill of the team, based on skill of the GM to put it together). Though post 2009 that is where Holland started to fumble. While I do think hockey is a cyclical sport and no team can be good forever, after that 2008 cup/2009 cup run Holland lost touch with the cap and used the same philosophies that he used in the early 2000's that worked so well in an era where you have to have a different approach. Add that to the fact that we never got bad (ie had high draft picks) this downturn was inevitable.

The Helm contract is the perfect example, I actually dont mind that contract in a bubble. I am happy Darren Helm is on this team, and the contract while I dont love it, really doesnt bother me. What bother's me is signing him to that contract while we also signed Nielsen longterm, signed Abby to 7 years, along with E, Kronwall, Howard etc.

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

How did NY get fleeced?  A 2nd round pick and a third round pick.  Yippee.

Because prior to the deadline most people were thinking something closer to a 4th round pick. Dont forget Smith is coming off of an injury and hasnt had the best season this year.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He's Bill Berzeench. You know this Dickie. 

Could be another name for Tommy or Sammy.

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[Son of a Wing 1,644]

"A hockey birdie whispers that Valtteri Filppula turned down a trade to Toronto, and accepted one to Philadelphia, because he didn’t want to play for Mike Babcock again. Six years of the relentless Babcock is apparently too much for some players" 

Thought that was interesting. From The Toronto Star.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

17 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Who the hell wants to play for a coach that will make you play with walk-ons and turn you into a 30 point a year guy?

And can't get your name right.  

[kliq 3,755]

56 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I thought Fipyoula was oatstanding tonight.  Valtree has the caypawbiltee to be a real guhd player for us.  

I'd trade Howard and E for him lol.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yeah, why not add another guy not worth his contract. Genius!

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[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Yeah, why not add another guy not worth his contract. Genius!

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Why mock my post? Do you not know the contract info regarding the 3 players? Or are you being sarcastic for no reason?

My comment was more so as a joke, but in all seriousness, if Philly offered you Filppula (1 more year 5mil) for E (3 more years at 4.25mil) and Howard (2 more years at 5.3) you really think it would be a stupid move to accept? I really fail to see your logic here Dickie?

If your grand plan is to dump salary, this trade clears E and Howard in essentially one more year.

Edited March 6, 2017 by kliq

[LeftWinger 4,953]

...and he's a pretty good center.

[kliq 3,755]

49 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

...and he's a pretty good center.

Would you trade E and Howard for Filppula?

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Would you trade E and Howard for Filppula?

In a heart beat. There's not a single player in the league I wouldn't trade two of them for though. Doesn't hurt that I always like Filppula either.

[e_prime 1,936]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Not as good as Wayne Gretzky was, tho.

Was.  He doesn't really factor into current NHL rosters and such...

Certainly, would take Flip back for either Ericsson or Howard...

Edited March 6, 2017 by e_prime

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I'd trade E and Howard for Gretzky. 

[kliq 3,755]

16 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd trade E and Howard for Gretzky. 

Joking aside, would you trade E and Howard for Filppula?