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PavelValerievichDatsyuk

Tatar, Athanasiou, and XO's new deals

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3 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

You have to give to get.  We have some dynamic youngsters in the 3 that you mentioned as well as Svechnikov.  What we don't have and are desperately in need of is a top 2 D.  That, in my opinion, is more important to this team.  Trust me, I don't want to trade AA, but if that's what it takes, I would heavily consider it if I'm Holland.  How else do you expect us to get a top 2 D that is young?

There is no point, he thinks that AA is much better then he is and should not be traded for anyone. This is not even a knock on AA Lefty, you just think wayyyy to highly of him.

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6 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

You have to give to get.  We have some dynamic youngsters in the 3 that you mentioned as well as Svechnikov.  What we don't have and are desperately in need of is a top 2 D.  That, in my opinion, is more important to this team.  Trust me, I don't want to trade AA, but if that's what it takes, I would heavily consider it if I'm Holland.  How else do you expect us to get a top 2 D that is young?

I can't see Holland being able to pull off that kind of deal. He just doesn't seem to have it in him. I agree that there needs to be a trade to bring in a top pair dman and I would start with packaging a guy like AA or Svechnikov. If it doesn't happen that means we are relying on one of Cholowski, Hronek, or Saarijarvi to develop into a top 2. They definitely have some promise with their skating and puck moving abilities but they still have a long way to go. 

On a side note with those 3 possibly joining Hicketts in GR this season, the Griffins D should have some serious wheels.

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5 hours ago, Dabura said:

I don't think we'll be trading for a young, proven top-pairing defenseman anytime soon. The price is simply too high.

Through the draft and/or by trading for a high-end prospect, e.g. Haydn Fleury.

This. Or Jake Bean, or Dante Fabbro, or Travis Sanheim... None of these guys would cost a ton, and all would instantly become our top defense prospect. I'm hopeful that one of Cholowski, Hronek or Saarijarvi can become a top pair defenseman, but I'm not confident any of them will reach that ceiling. I'm really looking forward to see what kind of season Cholowski has this year in Prince George. Hopefully he has a breakout year. Also going to be interesting to see how Hronek and Saarijarvi handle their first year pro. Hronek looked good in his short stint. Hopefully they both rack up points with the Griffs this year.

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A top 2 defenseman comes right to the NHL, he doesn't spend any time in the A. We need to trade for one or draft him in the top 5. I am very reluctant to trade AA. So I'm not sure how we'll get it done. But you don't develop a top defenseman, you develop 2-7.

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Now that Tatar is re-signed. Anyone know exactly how much cap space we have left? I'm just wondering if it's even a possibility to sign Thomas Vanek? From what I've heard, there isn't much cap space left. And we still have to sign AA. But I've heard three different cap space numbers. At this point it would be nice to know exactly how much money we're working with now. 

 

Last cap report I heard, is we have exactly 3 mill left after the Tatar signing. 

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44 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

A top 2 defenseman comes right to the NHL, he doesn't spend any time in the A. We need to trade for one or draft him in the top 5. I am very reluctant to trade AA. So I'm not sure how we'll get it done. But you don't develop a top defenseman, you develop 2-7.

That's not true at all. Top 5-10 draft pick defensemen go straight to the NHL, but most defensemen drafted in the late first and later, usually spend at least some time in the AHL. 

Player - Draft Rank - Games in AHL

Keith - 54 - 154

Suter - 7 - 63

Seabrook - 14 - 3

Burns - 20 - 74

Weber - 49 - 46

Byfuglien - 245 - 124

McDonaugh - 12 - 38

Subban - 43 - 77

Doughty - 2 - 0

Pietrangelo - 4 - 1

Karlsson - 15 - 12

Carlson - 27 - 48

Josi - 38 - 74

Hedman - 2 - 0

Ekman-Larsson - 6 - 35

Fowler - 12 - 0

Faulk 37 - 43

Larsson - 4 - 67

Hamilton - 9 - 0

Rielly - 5 - 14

Jones - 4 - 0

Ekblad - 1 - 0

Hanifin - 5 - 0

Werenski - 8 - 7

 

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3 hours ago, TheDetroitRedWings said:

Now that Tatar is re-signed. Anyone know exactly how much cap space we have left? I'm just wondering if it's even a possibility to sign Thomas Vanek? From what I've heard, there isn't much cap space left. And we still have to sign AA. But I've heard three different cap space numbers. At this point it would be nice to know exactly how much money we're working with now. 

Last cap report I heard, is we have exactly 3 mill left after the Tatar signing. 

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

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12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

What is the cap relief if we waive E?

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36 minutes ago, kliq said:

What is the cap relief if we waive E?

Not sure, but, and this will piss me off, if they waive Sproul and he goes down, they'll have enough to afford Athanasiou at the lower end of the estimate (around 1.5 million), but they still won't have enough to bring up Bertuzzi.  They'd have to waive Witkowski and Sproul.  That would be very piss-poor since you just signed Witkowski and I don't know that either would clear waivers.

51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

Unless Kronwall or Ericsson are on LTIR.  That then would buy them some time.

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4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

We are $3,021,212 over the salary cap now, but once Franzen ($3,954,545) is placed on LTIR we will have $933,333. Athanasiou will likely get between $1.5-2M, so another move will need to be made before the start of the season, whether that's LTIR, trade or waiving a player.

 

3 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Unless Kronwall or Ericsson are on LTIR.  That then would buy them some time.

Exactly what I said. I'm hoping Holland knows and probably has known for quite some time that one of Kronwall or Ericsson is doubtful to start the season.

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

Maximum you can bury this year is $1.025M.

Likely a moot point though. 

Yeah, I was thinking it was a max of $975k, but that sounds about right. But like you said, it's a moot point. No way Holland waives Ericsson. No way he trades him either, but that's the route I'd go. Trade him to a team like New Jersey or Buffalo, along with Ottawa's 2018 2nd round pick in exchange for one of their mid round picks. Retain some salary as well if that's what it takes. But again, no way Holland does it...

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Holland is going to have to do something this year, unless Kronner Big E Glendog and Mule are all on LTIR at the start of the season in which case this will buy him some time. 

But something has to give, or in the real world he has to let go of 1 or 2 of his roster guys , and at that ones that carry a higher payroll. 

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1 hour ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

Holland is going to have to do something this year, unless Kronner Big E Glendog and Mule are all on LTIR at the start of the season in which case this will buy him some time. 

But something has to give, or in the real world he has to let go of 1 or 2 of his roster guys , and at that ones that carry a higher payroll. 

Why would all 3 need to go on LTIR? We only need to free up another $1-2M. If one of Kronwall or Ericsson start the season on LTIR, we'll be under the cap.

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Just now, Wingnut1989 said:

We def need trades still, im not satisfied with this off season and neither should the red wings organization be. 

The only thing I would like to see, is the Wings trading for a top pairing D-man, unfortunately I don't see that happening.

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42 minutes ago, Euro_Twins said:

Since they went to arbitration with tatar, they can open the 48 hour buyout window 3 days after arbitration ends right? So technically Monday they could buy out Ericsson if I'm not mistaken. 

They could but won't, and shouldn't in my opinion. Trade him and retain salary. Better to have a million or so of his contract on the books for another three seasons, rather than six...

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

They could but won't, and shouldn't in my opinion. Trade him and retain salary. Better to have a million or so of his contract on the books for another three seasons, rather than six...

100% agree with you. So many people dismiss the long term effects of the buyout, just look at what the Weiss buyout is doing to us right now, a 2.6 mil caphit for nothing. A trade with salary retention is the smartest move if Holland wants to rid him self of E. With that being said, I dont think he does.

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7 hours ago, kliq said:

100% agree with you. So many people dismiss the long term effects of the buyout, just look at what the Weiss buyout is doing to us right now, a 2.6 mil caphit for nothing. A trade with salary retention is the smartest move if Holland wants to rid him self of E. With that being said, I dont think he does.

I don't disagree with this. But do you think Holland is capable of trading his contract?

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On 7/22/2017 at 9:12 AM, krsmith17 said:

This. Or Jake Bean, or Dante Fabbro, or Travis Sanheim... None of these guys would cost a ton, and all would instantly become our top defense prospect.

Realistically, the pool of potential targets is exceedingly small.

Nyquist's NTC recently kicked in and he's coming off a tough season in terms of goal-scoring. So even if he signed off on a trade, we'd probably be selling low. Tatar just signed a multi-year deal and has gone out of his way to say he's happy in Detroit. We all know the Wings have deemed Larkin absolutely untouchable. After the season Mantha just had, and with this new "Size Matters" mandate, I'm sure Mantha has been deemed only slightly less untouchable than Larkin.

So, in terms of forward trade chips, I think we're pretty much left with Athanasiou and Svechnikov. I believe Svechnikov's trade value is close to negligible and that AA's isn't anything to write home about. AA might be enough to get us a high-end D prospect, but our trade partner would have to have an abundance of high-end defensemen and a desperate need for skilled top-nine forwards.

Philly needs to improve their D group and I'm sure they see Travis Sanheim playing a big role in that effort. Nashville's looking to replace James Neal, so they'd probably want Nyquist or Tatar -- and, realistically, Holland isn't trading Nyquist or Tatar for Dante Fabbro. "What if AA has a monster season and establishes himself as a great top-six forward?" you ask? Well, then Holland deems him untouchable. :hehe:

If it's gonna happen, I think it's gonna be Athanasiou(+) for Haydn Fleury. My impression is that the 'canes feel Jake Bean is the more valuable prospect, as his skill set makes him a potential Justin Faulk replacement. Brett Pesce is decent but unremarkable. I'm really high on Jaccob Slavin, but he just signed a big extension. Noah Hanifin is still very young and has enormous potential; they'd want Larkin/Mantha.

If not Fleury, possibly Rasmus Andersson or Oliver Kylington, as the Flames have solidified their top four/five. I like both players, but if we're giving up Athanasiou, I'd prefer Fleury; he has all the makings of a really good minute-munching two-way defenseman. The kind of player we were hoping Ericsson and DeKeyser would become.

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17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Exactly what I said. I'm hoping Holland knows and probably has known for quite some time that one of Kronwall or Ericsson is doubtful to start the season.

Yeah, I was thinking it was a max of $975k, but that sounds about right. But like you said, it's a moot point. No way Holland waives Ericsson. No way he trades him either, but that's the route I'd go. Trade him to a team like New Jersey or Buffalo, along with Ottawa's 2018 2nd round pick in exchange for one of their mid round picks. Retain some salary as well if that's what it takes. But again, no way Holland does it...

Holland is not that smart.

4 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

I don't disagree with this. But do you think Holland is capable of trading his contract?

No.

If Holland trades AA it'll be for a 35 year old defenseman.

Holland can't make a move to save his life, if he does, he f***s it all up.

AA should already be as untouchable as Mantha. 

Edited by LeftWinger

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5 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

I don't disagree with this. But do you think Holland is capable of trading his contract?

Yes, but I dont think he wants to trade his contract. The narrative of "E needs to go" has been created by the fans, I dont think management feel this way.

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13 minutes ago, kliq said:

Yes, but I dont think he wants to trade his contract. The narrative of "E needs to go" has been created by the fans, I dont think management feel this way.

Well they should because they guys a traffic cone at best.

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