The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted January 11, 2024 2 minutes ago, Motor City Mullets said: Maybe someone can answer this for me, but is there any team out there on pace with Toronto regarding 2ndary players coming and going? 3rd/4th line forwards - 2nd/3rd pair Dmen - goalies - they all seem to have a revolving door...Seems about right though considering where their $$$ is invested. reminds me alot of the 2010 - 2015 Hawks without the winning of course 1 Motor City Mullets reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor City Mullets 304 Report post Posted January 11, 2024 18 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: reminds me alot of the 2010 - 2015 Hawks without the winning of course Ah - yes! Both Kane/Toews got their big $$$ after winning the Cup 3 times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 11, 2024 (edited) The amount of really great "secondary" players that Chicago shuffled through was unreal. Their core group gets a ton of credit (and should) but their scouting during that period was unbelievable. Byfuglien, Campbell, Leddy, Ladd, Saad, Teravainen, Versteeg, Brouwer, Shaw just to name a few. In most cases Chicago had good players already in their system, who out performed their salaries, and were let go/traded and replaced internally by other good homegrown talent. That's how they were able to keep winning despite so much of their cap space going to Toews, Kane, and Keith. Toronto doesn't have a luxury because they don't have any homegrown talent in the minors, let alone enough of it to replace guys they trade away with other quality options. Edited January 11, 2024 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88Kaner 33 Report post Posted January 11, 2024 46 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: reminds me alot of the 2010 - 2015 Hawks without the winning of course & The elite defenseman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor City Mullets 304 Report post Posted January 11, 2024 Any bets where Bertuzzi ends up next season? 26 minutes ago, kipwinger said: The amount of really great "secondary" players that Chicago shuffled through was unreal. Their core group gets a ton of credit (and should) but their scouting during that period was unbelievable. Byfuglien, Campbell, Leddy, Ladd, Saad, Teravainen, Versteeg, Brouwer, Shaw just to name a few. In most cases Chicago had good players already in their system, who out performed their salaries, and were let go/traded and replaced internally by other good homegrown talent. That's how they were able to keep winning despite so much of their cap space going to Toews, Kane, and Keith. Toronto doesn't have a luxury because they don't have any homegrown talent in the minors, let alone enough of it to replace guys they trade away with other quality options. While I despise the Blackhawks I recall finding this quite amusing... 1 Troy McClure reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 675 Report post Posted January 11, 2024 We had good secondary defensemen we won too. Lids - Rouse/Murphy Fetisov - Konstantinov/Dandenault Eriksson/Ramsey - Pushor/Ward Just stacked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 347 Report post Posted January 12, 2024 7 hours ago, kipwinger said: Well the good news is that they just signed William Nylander for 8 years and 11 million dollars so that should help with the defen...err...uh oh. If I was current Leafs org, I would let literally every UFA walk this year. Replace all lost forwards internally (fuqq it man, that's what happens when you blow your entire forward budget on 4 players) and just prey some of your too soon draft picks grab the reins early. Dump all money saved into the defense. Be aggressive trading for and signing the best Dmen we can, and committing term to them if necessary, within reason. We have so overspent on forwards that we cannot afford to be a team with a star goalie making money. So roll the dice on multiple cheap goalies that might randomly have a good year. 7 hours ago, Motor City Mullets said: Maybe someone can answer this for me, but is there any team out there on pace with Toronto regarding 2ndary players coming and going? 3rd/4th line forwards - 2nd/3rd pair Dmen - goalies - they all seem to have a revolving door...Seems about right though considering where their $$$ is invested. This is a good point. Sure Chicago shuffled players, but they also had Sharp, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Bickell, Kruger, and guys like that sticking with them for years. The Leafs have shuffled literally everyone out except what, Moragn Rielly? And the new group is never any better, probably because nobody has built anything together besides the core 4. If 5 hours ago, Motor City Mullets said: Any bets where Bertuzzi ends up next season? While I despise the Blackhawks I recall finding this quite amusing... Liked because these 3 idiots call themselves "Retar Crew" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,136 Report post Posted January 21, 2024 Rumor has it that Detroit is mildly interested in Zegras if he were to be traded. Would you be? At what cost? I'm sure Verbeek would want a good prospect and a pick at least. IMO, if they would agree to retaining 50% salary, I'd like to see what the cost might be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) I HATE the way Zegras has developed but I'd still take a good long look at him if I were SY. I think some of the things I don't like about his game are the result of a lack of solid veterans in the locker room during his first few NHL years. He needed guys telling him to cut the cute sh*t, quit complaining to the refs, and play hard. He's an undeniably talented player but he reminds me of young Jack Eichel in the sense that he needs to mature his game a whole lot. Maybe a team of established NHLers that play the game correctly would help with that. Edit: For what it's worth, he trains with Larkin and a few other guys in the offseason so there's a Red Wings connection already in place. Edited January 21, 2024 by kipwinger 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mackel 764 Report post Posted January 21, 2024 An Athletic mock trade submission suggested Edvinsson for Zegras... if that's the price; no thanks. 2 88Kaner and Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 21, 2024 14 minutes ago, mackel said: An Athletic mock trade submission suggested Edvinsson for Zegras... if that's the price; no thanks. Pat Verbeek would be delighted. If the rumors are true and Zegras really is being shopped then I think Anaheim is handling it all wrong. There's really no obvious need to trade him. He's young, talented, under contract for two more years after this one, and still and RFA when his deal expires. So basically if they're moving him it's because they don't like him as a player and they've basically broadcast that to the entire league. THAT, in turn, will lower the asking price I'd think. Verbeek: Hey, anyone want Zegras? Other GMs: Why are you trading him? Verbeek: Well, I've never really liked his game and now that we have Gauthier I don't have to tolerate him anymore. Other GMs: Oh...well...what do you want for him? Verbeek: Your best assets? Other GMs: LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 347 Report post Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, kipwinger said: Pat Verbeek would be delighted. If the rumors are true and Zegras really is being shopped then I think Anaheim is handling it all wrong. There's really no obvious need to trade him. He's young, talented, under contract for two more years after this one, and still and RFA when his deal expires. So basically if they're moving him it's because they don't like him as a player and they've basically broadcast that to the entire league. THAT, in turn, will lower the asking price I'd think. Verbeek: Hey, anyone want Zegras? Other GMs: Why are you trading him? Verbeek: Well, I've never really liked his game and now that we have Gauthier I don't have to tolerate him anymore. Other GMs: Oh...well...what do you want for him? Verbeek: Your best assets? Other GMs: LOL This is the red flag. If Zegras is such utter cancer that they are giving up on him at 22, then Verbeek has gone about this all wrong and is an idiot (I don't believe this to be true). I think what's really going on here is two-fold: 1. Pat is playing mind games with the player. A player who is young and still developing, a player Pat is underpaying and is at almost no risk of actually losing in the near future, and who is currently on a bad slump. Zegras is supposed to be the future face of their franchise, he's already been on a video game cover. Beek has no intention of actually trading, but wants to light a fire under his ass. 2. It's a bait-n-switch tactic for the upcoming trade deadline. Dangle one of your most valuable pieces, and teams are likely to make you offers with actual valuable pieces coming back, exposing what they are willing to get rid of for the right price. Then you try to pry some of those pieces off of them using a Henrique or Silverberg. IMO I don't think Zegras is going anywhere for the time being. Edited January 21, 2024 by Troy McClure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,136 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 9 hours ago, mackel said: An Athletic mock trade submission suggested Edvinsson for Zegras... if that's the price; no thanks. No, No, No... Have a nice day! What about Wallinder and a pick? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
town123 235 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 Zegras is a better scorer than Zadina, but even suckier without the puck. No thanks. We need players who muck it up not more perimeter players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Axl Foley 334 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 Kasper for Zegras Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stephen-gregory-yzerman 139 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 32 minutes ago, Axl Foley said: Kasper for Zegras No. Also 35 minutes ago, town123 said: No thanks. We need players who muck it up not more perimeter players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 (edited) I think with Kasper the hope is that his ceiling is an O'Reilly/Kesler type of defensive 2C with above average (but not elite) offense. The floor in his case is probably someone like JT Compher. With Zegras the ceiling is really hard to determine. There aren't too many centers in the NHL that are all offense and no defense. The responsibilities of the position simply don't allow for it. So the ceiling is probably a Panarin/Marner type elite, creative, playmaking winger. The floor is probably what he is right now, which is all those things but at a non-elite level. Given what Zegras has already done in the league I think it's fair to say that he's closer to hitting his ceiling. But Kasper is only 19 and his ceiling is easier to hit (if that makes any sense). Plus the type of player you hope he becomes is much more valuable to a contending team. Edited January 22, 2024 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
88Kaner 33 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 Not a fan of the guy at all, dudes scrawny as hell we have enough soft forwards on this team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 1 minute ago, 88Kaner said: Not a fan of the guy at all, dudes scrawny as hell we have enough soft forwards on this team. I agree Zegras is scrawny, but I wouldn't consider him "soft" per se. He's kinda chippy on the ice, almost like Debrincat. He obviously doesn't have the size/strength to be a physically imposing player but he isn't a "turn the other cheek" type guy either. 1 88Kaner reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 675 Report post Posted January 22, 2024 Zegras will cost us something we dont want to give up. 2 mackel and 88Kaner reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,136 Report post Posted January 23, 2024 44 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said: Zegras will cost us something we dont want to give up. Yzerman will not give up anything that would constitute a "loss" in the deal. That being said, since Zegras would probably indeed cost us something we don't want to give up, Yzerman will not make a deal. 2 88Kaner and kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diehardredwingsfan58 164 Report post Posted January 23, 2024 23 hours ago, Axl Foley said: Kasper for Zegras No thanks, Zegres is soft, Kasper is another Bertuzzi type. 1 Troy McClure reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,136 Report post Posted January 23, 2024 Another rumor is that Jacob Chychrun may be on the move by the deadline. Do you think there'd be any interest from Yzerman? I am sure it would be more costly than Debrincat this time around, but what do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor City Mullets 304 Report post Posted January 23, 2024 6 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said: No thanks, Zegres is soft, Kasper is another Bertuzzi type. Minus the point production Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stephen-gregory-yzerman 139 Report post Posted January 23, 2024 26 minutes ago, Motor City Mullets said: Minus the point production ????? Bertuzzis first full AHL season - age 20 30PTS in 71GP - 0.42PTS/G Kaspers first full AHL season - age 19 19PTS in 36GP - 0.53PTS/G Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
