Bad Fans?

[Buppy 1,720]

25 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

is that a rule I missed? He cannot play in the AHL?

Yes. Kids drafted from the CHL must be 20 years old or have played 4 years in the CHL to play in the AHL. 

 

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

...Another year down in Grand Rapids could turn Svech into the next Jurco...

Lol. One of your big complaints with Jurco was that we brought him up too soon. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

30 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

is that a rule I missed? He cannot play in the AHL?

Yeah, players drafted out of the CHL aren't eligible to play in the AHL until they are 20 years old. Rasmussen will only be 19 years old next season, so he would have to play one more season in the W, or make the Red Wings roster out of camp.

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Lol. One of your big complaints with Jurco was that we brought him up too soon. 

I said after Jurco's first half season in Detroit that he could use another half to full season in Grand Rapids. I said the same thing about Svechnikov at the beginning of this season. My biggest complaint with Jurco was that he was constantly in and out of the lineup, and when he did get in, he'd play on the 4th line with scrubs. I think the best thing for Svech going into next season (assuming he has a good summer / training camp / pre-season) is to be given a *top 9* spot in Detroit. Hopefully Blashill's recent comments about giving him more minutes actually happens. Ideally I'd like to see Svech and Frk moved up to the 3rd line with Nielsen.

[Buppy 1,720]

53 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I said after Jurco's first half season in Detroit that he could use another half to full season in Grand Rapids. I said the same thing about Svechnikov at the beginning of this season. My biggest complaint with Jurco was that he was constantly in and out of the lineup, and when he did get in, he'd play on the 4th line with scrubs. I think the best thing for Svech going into next season (assuming he has a good summer / training camp / pre-season) is to be given a *top 9* spot in Detroit. Hopefully Blashill's recent comments about giving him more minutes actually happens. Ideally I'd like to see Svech and Frk moved up to the 3rd line with Nielsen.

Exactly. 21 going on 22 Jurco, with 40g, 81p, in 138 AHL games, plus 8g, 15p in 39 NHL games, was too young and his development was damaged by being brought up to the NHL. 21 going on 22 Svechnikov, with 32g, 85p in 145 AHL games, plus 1g, 1p in 9 NHL games (potentially another 9 more games) is too old and his development would be damaged by being left in the AHL. Exactly.

[Dabura 12,207]

Plot twist: "Michael Rasmussen" is just two kids in a trenchcoat.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree that Rasmussen probably won't make the team next season. We're in a tough spot with Ras, because he either has to play another season in juniors, or play in the NHL. Ideally we'd be able to send him to the AHL, but that isn't the case. My fear of him playing another season with Tri-City, is that he needs to start playing against tougher competition. If not, his development could come to a standstill.

The same can be said for Svechnikov. He needs to be playing in the NHL in my opinion. I truly do believe that keeping prospects down too long can really hurt their development. Another year down in Grand Rapids could turn Svech into the next Jurco...

We were this season / likely will be next season a cap ceiling team. We are this season / likely will be next season the oldest team in the league. This is a team going through a rebuild. That is not a recipe for success. We needs to get younger, not older. Bringing back Vanek would be terrible, especially if it's blocking a kid like Svechnikov. We need to shed some roster players. We shouldn't be looking to sign any UFA's, unless it's Tavares in my opinion.

Ideally, I'd like to trade Nielsen to open up a spot for Rasmussen and Helm or Glendening to open up a spot for Turgeon. Svechnikov should stick with the team. We may even have to open up another spot if we get Andrei Svechnikov in the draft...

Thanks. I forgot about the CHL agreement with him. Unless he pulls a Larkin and performs too well at camp next year to send him down, he will probably spend a handful of games on the roster and be sent down before he hits his ten game mark. Its entirely possible he starts the following season in GR before being called up permanently. I am actually OK with this. I would rather a future top 6 forward get top line minutes in the AHL then get 4th line duty in the NHL as he develops.  That's what i would have done differently with Jurco. Just my opinion tho. A bottom 6 forward would be different. Bringing up guys like Bertuzzi, Turgeon, and Frk and giving them bottom 6 minutes in the NHL allows them to be sheltered but learn their roles at the NHL level at the same time. Just how I would do it.

As for keeping prospects down too long, I don't think it hurts the player as much as it does the team who is wasting contractual years on a guy by keeping him in the minors. Its certainly better than bringing up a guy too soon. I would rather a guy be "overripe" than too "green". I think the latter is more damaging to a players development. And as much as people hate the whole "overripe" thing, the only guy I can think of that was kept down longer than he should have been IMO is Nyquist. Larkin and Mantha weren't overripe when they were brought up.

Signing Vanek may not be the right thing to do, but it wouldn't be blocking Svech. This is a false argument that has been overused over the years (not saying you) that UFA signings keep NHL ready kids in GR. But signing guys like Green, Daley, Nielsen, etc did not keep guys like Mantha or Larkin buried in the minors. If a guy isn't ready for full time NHL duty, he isn't ready. Bringing in veterans doesn't change that. Besides, kids make far less salary than veterans do. Why would a team with cap problems bring in more expensive UFAs to fill their roster if they have cheaper, younger alternatives available who are ready to go? That never made sense to me. I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but its Holland so....

As for Lil' Svech, if the Wings get him, than I can see him making the roster out of camp. That might even give them the incentive to keep his big brother on the roster, but that's the only way I see it happening.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[chaps80 1,591]

On 3/18/2018 at 4:39 PM, HadThomasVokounOnFortSt said:

I’m in the same boat. I use to be excited all day long on gamedays to watch them. Now I’m like I’ll tune in to see the score, I got better things to do then watch them lose. 

This. I used to hunt for a good stream an hour before game time every game night, but now i'll just check NHL.come for the box score. Playoffs, in the contending years, were always games i'd look forward to for days. No excitement like that right now.

Things will get better, this was inevitable with a salary capped league. We all saw it coming. One thing I do take some comfort in though, is knowing how many years past the introduction of the cap this team contended for, even making the WCF in '07, winning the Cup in '08, and coming within one game of repeating in '09. Missed the playoffs for the first time in 2016-17. That's a hell of a lot more success and longetivity than most "experts" and "insiders" thought the Wings would ever have. Pretty sure many thought they'd be a league doormat within a few seasons of the cap coming in.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

This. I used to hunt for a good stream an hour before game time every game night, but now i'll just check NHL.come for the box score. Playoffs, in the contending years, were always games i'd look forward to for days. No excitement like that right now.

Things will get better, this was inevitable with a salary capped league. We all saw it coming. One thing I do take some comfort in though, is knowing how many years past the introduction of the cap this team contended for, even making the WCF in '07, winning the Cup in '08, and coming within one game of repeating in '09. Missed the playoffs for the first time in 2016-17. That's a hell of a lot more success and longetivity than most "experts" and "insiders" thought the Wings would ever have. Pretty sure many thought they'd be a league doormat within a few seasons of the cap coming in.

Yep. I can remember "experts" (The Hockey News among others) predicting that "this will be the year the streak ends" years before it actually happened.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 hours ago, Buppy said:

Exactly. 21 going on 22 Jurco, with 40g, 81p, in 138 AHL games, plus 8g, 15p in 39 NHL games, was too young and his development was damaged by being brought up to the NHL. 21 going on 22 Svechnikov, with 32g, 85p in 145 AHL games, plus 1g, 1p in 9 NHL games (potentially another 9 more games) is too old and his development would be damaged by being left in the AHL. Exactly.

I guess you're right. However, opinions (including mine) have changed a lot over the past several years on when a player should start playing full time in the NHL. The league is getting younger every year, and players seem to be ready a lot sooner. 6 years ago I thought Nyquist could use more time in Grand Rapids at the age of 23! 4 years ago I thought Jurco needed more development at the age of 21. Today I think Svechnikov is ready for full time at 21. I also think Rasmussen could be ready this year (or next year at the latest) at the age of 19 (20). Maybe it's a combination of the league changing, opinions changing and player pedigree. Nyquist was a 4th round pick, Jurco was an early 2nd round pick, Svechnikov was a mid 1st round pick and Rasmussen was a top 10 pick. I felt Mantha was ready at the same age as Svechnikov as well.

I'll say it again though, my biggest issue with Jurco's development was never "he was brought up too early". It was that he was brought up too early AND played with scrubs on a checking line, rather than with skilled players on a scoring line. If Svechnikov remains on the 4th line with limited minutes, I'll be the first to say he'd be better off in Grand Rapids playing top line minutes and power-play time.

[AtlantaHotWings 992]

IMHO if Ras proves he belongs then he stays if not send him back down and wash rinse repeat next season. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 3/22/2018 at 6:56 AM, AtlantaHotWings said:

IMHO if Ras proves he belongs then he stays if not send him back down and wash rinse repeat next season. 

You're right, but it doesn't matter. If he's not on the roster to start the season, there will be a lot of angry armchair GMs.

[Dabura 12,207]

20 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You're right, but it doesn't matter. If he's not on the roster to start the season, there will be a lot of angry armchair GMs.

Only because we will have signed Ray Whitney, Steve Thomas, and Mikael Samuelsson to keep Rasmussen off the roster and make him sad.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Dabura

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Only because we will have signed Ray Whitney, Steve Thomas, and Mikael Samuelsson to keep Rasmussen off the roster and make him sad.

You mean Vanek, Nash, and Jagr?

If you google "Red Wings players" Erik Cole's picture still comes up.

[Dabura 12,207]

8 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You mean Vanek, Nash, and Jagr?

If you google "Red Wings players" Erik Cole's picture still comes up.

I miss David Legwand.

[Barrie 900]

I'm with the rest of you. I actually stopped watching because I'm cheering for loses. I don't feel bad about it, because losing now means wins later.

I'm actually not interested in watching hockey at all right now.

We'd be bad fans if we ditched the Wings and started cheering for another team.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Yup, you're a bad fan

Shame

Anyone else trying to help you justify it is also a s***ty fan

You'll all burn in red wing hell

losers

[AtlantaHotWings 992]

Well this "bad" fan just did the draft simulator and out of 10 tries we were in the top 3 50% of the time and of those were #1 2 times 2 1 time and #3 2 times.

It did piss me off seeing sh*thawks in the top 3 multiple times also just cause...

[LeftWinger 4,963]

There is a game tonight. Detroit at Buffalo right now Buffalo is winning 2 to 1. I did not see a game day thread. Is it wrong to root for Buffalo tonight?

[TLGTrico 627]

21 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yup, you're a bad fan

Shame

Anyone else trying to help you justify it is also a s***ty fan

You'll all burn in red wing hell

losers

You don't want this team to ever be good again do you?

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

There is a game tonight. Detroit at Buffalo right now Buffalo is winning 2 to 1. I did not see a game day thread. Is it wrong to root for Buffalo tonight?

We played tonight or attempted to? 

[LeftWinger 4,963]

6 minutes ago, HadThomasVokounOnFortSt said:

We played tonight or attempted to? 

We won 6-3. I guess buffalo is better at tanking than us.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

A couple things: Apathy? THis team has no direction up or down. It's trundling out the same plan each night. Not bad enough to get a #1 overall most likely barring a mathematical miracle and not good enough to make the playoffs. Its Groundhog Day. I have had THE worst possible year this year (DM me if you want details) and I've tried to get into this team and it's just not happening. 

Next point, as a Cleveland Browns fan, NO it is not wrong to hope your team loses to get the best pick. I've been doing it for decades. Those stupid and pointless wins against say Kansas City in November will come back to haunt you.