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LeftWinger

Mike Green Officially Signed *Mod Warning Page 4*

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Since 2000 (the year that Kronwall was drafted) thru 2014 (a total of 15 drafts), I count a total of 34 Defensemen drafted. Of those 34, only 11 (roughly 1/3) ever reached the NHL in some capacity:

Dmitri Bykov 2001 8th Rd #258

Derek Meech 2002 7th Rd #229

Jonathan Ericsson 2002 9th Rd #291

Kyle Quincey 2003 4th Rd #132

Jakub Kindl 2005 1st Rd #19

Brendan Smith 2007 1st Rd #27

Nick Jensen 2009 5th Rd #150

Adam Almqvist 2009 7th Rd #210

Xavier Ouellet 2011 2nd Rd #48

Ryan Sproul 2011 2nd Rd #55

Alexei Marchenko 2011 7th Rd #205

Interesting to note is that only Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, and Sproul were drafted above the 3rd Round. All of whom, except Sproul, have spent significant time in the NHL, albeit as lower tier Defensemen. The other 8 were drafted in the 4th Round or later. That seems like pretty good scouting/drafting there.

League average for 1st Rounders becoming NHLers is less than 50%. Holland was 2 for 2.

League average for 2nd Rounders is around 25%. Holland was, let's say, 1 for 2 or 50%, well above average here.

In regards to the other 23, it's easy to criticize the scouting/drafting for those, but keep in mind that out of those 23, only 2 (Max Nicastro, 2008 3rd Rd and Gleason Fournier, 2009 3rd Rd) were picked above the 4th Rd.

So in reality, of the 6 Defenseman over that time drafted in Rounds 1-3, 3 of them managed to eke out long term NHL careers, Sproul at least made to the NHL, and only 2 never made it at all. Let's call it 3 1/2 out of 6 or 58%.

Of the other 28 Defensemen drafted during that time, all were 4th Rd picks or later. Seven of them made it to the NHL, with varying degrees of success. Let's call it 5 out of 28 or 18%.

Considering that the NHL average for 3rd Rounders or later is around 12%, I would say the team has done a good job of drafting D in later rounds.

So basically, if there is any criticism to be had in regards to drafting D, this team's poor record has a lot more to do with WHERE the D is being drafted and not necessarily WHO is being drafted. The Wings have only drafted 4, that's right, 4 Defensemen in the first 2 rounds in the 15 years from 2000-2014. That's the problem. Waiting until later rounds over a LONG period of time to draft D is really what hurt this team. So poor drafting yes, just not in the way we might think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Detroit_Red_Wings_draft_picks

 

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47 minutes ago, Dabura said:

It's inexcusable.

Math suggests otherwise.

 

49 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I highly doubt Kronwall will put up 27 points this season, let alone next. I also doubt he'll remain healthy for another two seasons. He has two bummed knees. He should, and likely will retire after this contract is up. I know you're going to disagree with me, but I don't care if we somehow knew that Kronwall would put up 20+ points in the 2019-20 season, I still think that spot would be better filled by one of the kids. There's no way we should extend a 39 year old Kronwall, when we're trying to rebuild this team.

Few would have guessed he'd have the season he just had. You at least have to wait to see how he does, how he feels, what the doctors think. I'd rather have him mentoring the kids than Green. 

As of now we have four kids who could be ready by 19/20. Cholo and Sulak haven't played significantly in GR yet, Hicketts is Hicketts, and Hronek doesn't look any more promising than Sproul did at the same stage. Barring any major changes two of the four should have a spot by default. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that's more spots than we need. If we did need another, Kronwall's is only one option. 

Rebuilding doesn't mean getting younger, nor does a player have to be in Detroit to be part of it. The age of anyone who isn't likely part of the future foundation is irrelevant, and anyone who is still is even if they're in GR or JRs or wherever.

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7 hours ago, Buppy said:

Math suggests otherwise.

No. I've chosen my new Thing I'm Going to Complain About for the Next Couple of Days and Then Never Mention Again, and no amount of devil maths can change my mind.

I get where you're coming from. Break down the math and, yeah, it's not necessarily fair to say the Wings have dropped the ball on the D drafting front. At the same time, though, I like results and I don't like a lack of results. If you're losing Lidstrom and Rafalski and you're swinging and missing on Suter and you're not trading for a high-end defenseman and you're going out of your way in every interview to say, "It's a draft and develop league; there's no hockey store," I think it's perfectly fair for a fan to say, "The last time you guys drafted a really good defenseman was in the year 1999. Git Gud, losers."

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9 hours ago, Buppy said:

Few would have guessed he'd have the season he just had. You at least have to wait to see how he does, how he feels, what the doctors think. I'd rather have him mentoring the kids than Green. 

As of now we have four kids who could be ready by 19/20. Cholo and Sulak haven't played significantly in GR yet, Hicketts is Hicketts, and Hronek doesn't look any more promising than Sproul did at the same stage. Barring any major changes two of the four should have a spot by default. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that's more spots than we need. If we did need another, Kronwall's is only one option. 

Rebuilding doesn't mean getting younger, nor does a player have to be in Detroit to be part of it. The age of anyone who isn't likely part of the future foundation is irrelevant, and anyone who is still is even if they're in GR or JRs or wherever.

No, rebuilding doesn't necessarily mean getting younger in all instances, but in the case of the Red Wings (the oldest team in the league), it most certainly should. Again, I think Kronwall should and most likely will hang 'em up after this season. Zetterberg will most likely follow suit via LTIR. Nyquist and Vanek, as well as maybe Jensen and Howard could possibly be traded at this year's deadline. Any or all of Ericsson, Daley and Green can all be traded at next year's deadline. All will be pending UFA's, and hopefully not extended beyond next season (at most one of them). Helm and Glendening can easily be moved over the next couple seasons as well. We should be a much younger team over the next couple seasons, and for a league that is getting much younger, we're headed in the right direction.

Obviously a player doesn't have to currently be in Detroit to be a part of the rebuild... I'd say most of the pieces of this rebuild aren't currently in Detroit. Most are either currently playing for another team, playing in the minors / junior / college / Europe, or haven't even been drafted yet. I'm all for adding players via free agency or trade, but I want these players to either be in their prime or not quite in their prime, not players way past their prime...

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12 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

LGWs debates which of our poopy defenseman is less poopy. 

Leafs fan debate how much money Matthew's, Marner, and Nylander will get now that Tavares is on the cap.

:crybaby:

Drizzling s***s.

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

No. I've chosen my new Thing I'm Going to Complain About for the Next Couple of Days and Then Never Mention Again, and no amount of devil maths can change my mind.

I get where you're coming from. Break down the math and, yeah, it's not necessarily fair to say the Wings have dropped the ball on the D drafting front. At the same time, though, I like results and I don't like a lack of results. If you're losing Lidstrom and Rafalski and you're swinging and missing on Suter and you're not trading for a high-end defenseman and you're going out of your way in every interview to say, "It's a draft and develop league; there's no hockey store," I think it's perfectly fair for a fan to say, "The last time you guys drafted a really good defenseman was in the year 1999. Git Gud, losers."

This/this, and this and this = see above.

 

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6 hours ago, Dabura said:

Greener n E are a couple of fancy pretty boys eh

Notice how Zetterberg was not even asked. That s*** disgusts him. He rolls out of bed already beautiful and ready to go every morning.

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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Have a friend who was on the Wings coaching staff last year who is no longer there. Said that Green and Howard were out drinking way too often rather than focusing on the craft. I like Green as a veteran player. We could do worse with a D man at his pay. But hope that the drinking stories I hear don't signal a guy who has mailed it in and mostly collecting a paycheck to go out and booze like a hound.

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1 hour ago, Lark71 said:

Have a friend who was on the Wings coaching staff last year who is no longer there. Said that Green and Howard were out drinking way too often rather than focusing on the craft. I like Green as a veteran player. We could do worse with a D man at his pay. But hope that the drinking stories I hear don't signal a guy who has mailed it in and mostly collecting a paycheck to go out and booze like a hound.

John Torchetti?

That's a shame to hear. It's a little odd Green didn't want to leave for a contender. Maybe he's comfortable? Too comfortable?

Howard looks like he's put on weight. Not the greatest sign in the world.

DgzX118U0AAOYXq.jpg

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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14 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

John Torchetti?

That's a shame to hear. It's a little odd Green didn't want to leave for a contender. Maybe he's comfortable? Too comfortable?

Howard looks like he's put on weight. Not the greatest sign in the world.

DgzX118U0AAOYXq.jpg

Brendan Smith needed a job so Howie hired him as a Personal Training consultant.

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

Like Manny Legace

What's the greatest one for you and Neo? Swastika?

Its a secret sign we hide from the libs as we're Preparing for the inevitable loss of the 1st Amendment.

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10 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

And I hope that you can continue to do that for as long as you like.

Hasn't gone away in 200 years, I presume it won't anytime soon. I know Mr. T manages to instill fear and conspiracy in his disciples but all is well, trust me. 

Edited by kickazz

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On 7/14/2018 at 2:17 PM, kickazz said:

Like Manny Legace

What's the greatest one for you and Neo? Swastika?

Seriously?

On 7/14/2018 at 5:08 PM, kickazz said:

Don’t be hurt, I’m using my first amendment rights to talk s***. 

You have every right to talk s***. And everyone else has the right to judge you on it.

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On 7/14/2018 at 1:53 AM, Lark71 said:

Have a friend who was on the Wings coaching staff last year who is no longer there. Said that Green and Howard were out drinking way too often rather than focusing on the craft. I like Green as a veteran player. We could do worse with a D man at his pay. But hope that the drinking stories I hear don't signal a guy who has mailed it in and mostly collecting a paycheck to go out and booze like a hound.

LOL. Pretty easy to figure that one out.

10 hours ago, kickazz said:

Did I stutter? I thought I spell checked that post.

 

1:07

11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Hockey anyone?

Dude, it's summer.

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