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Mike Green Officially Signed *Mod Warning Page 4*

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4 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Almost every game I watched I saw Daley making defensive plays covering for his moron partner's screw ups.  Green, not so much.  Take away the PP points, Green had 4 more points than Daley with more o-zone starts.  Daley was better.

I agree with you. Daley is silently one of the best Dmen on this team. I could entertain the argument that he's better than Green.

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"It's so dumb to re-sign your best defenseman / power-play quarterback"... If you want to complain about the kids being held back or the need to get younger (I agree), complain about Holland not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for re-signing Green. Green and Daley are good role models for Hronek and Cholowski to be learning from over the next two seasons. I'm thrilled Green is back for another two (one and a half) seasons, and we can trade him at next season's deadline, and get the return we missed out on last season.

Kronwall will be gone after this season, Jensen may be gone as well, and maybe even Ericsson. There will be spots opening up (hopefully) for the kids over the next season or two. Good signing.

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54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

"It's so dumb to re-sign your best defenseman / power-play quarterback"... If you want to complain about the kids being held back or the need to get younger (I agree), complain about Holland not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for re-signing Green. Green and Daley are good role models for Hronek and Cholowski to be learning from over the next two seasons. I'm thrilled Green is back for another two (one and a half) seasons, and we can trade him at next season's deadline, and get the return we missed out on last season.

Kronwall will be gone after this season, Jensen may be gone as well, and maybe even Ericsson. There will be spots opening up (hopefully) for the kids over the next season or two. Good signing.

Agreed. Ouellet is out with presumably Hicketts taking his spot. Hronek will get a look this season, but will be eating big minutes in GR (which he wouldn't be getting with the Wings) which is good for his development going forward (same with Cholowski). Kronwall will presumably retire at the end of this season and giving one full time spot to either Hronek or Cholowski to start the following season. Jensen is expendable and could be replaced by either prospect as well. Then you trade Green at the TDL and make a spot for another young D to end the season. The D is coming along just fine, with veteran contracts expiring at the right time to replace them with younger D. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

Expiring contracts:

2019: Kronwall, Jensen (replace with Hronek and Cholowski or one of Hronek/Cholowski and re-sign Jensen)

2020: Green, Daley, Ericsson (replace with Hronek/Cholowski, Sulak or Saarajarvi and a top 4 UFA signing)

2021: start bringing in McIsaac, Lindstrom, etc

I don't know what there is to complain about here. You are mixing in veterans with youth while slowly getting younger.

(Also known as a REBUILD)

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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On 7/1/2018 at 7:59 PM, DickieDunn said:

Almost every game I watched I saw Daley making defensive plays covering for his moron partner's screw ups.  Green, not so much.  Take away the PP points, Green had 4 more points than Daley with more o-zone starts.  Daley was better.

You can't just say " take away the PP points". Green is good on the PP and generates points from it. Daley isn't and doesn't. Different skill sets. 

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43 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Agreed. Ouellet is out with presumably Hicketts taking his spot. Hronek will get a look this season, but will be eating big minutes in GR (which he wouldn't be getting with the Wings) which is good for his development going forward (same with Cholowski). Kronwall will presumably retire at the end of this season and giving one full time spot to either Hronek or Cholowski to start the following season. Jensen is expendable and could be replaced by either prospect as well. Then you trade Green at the TDL and make a spot for another young D to end the season. The D is coming along just fine, with veteran contracts expiring at the right time to replace them with younger D. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

Expiring contracts:

2019: Kronwall, Jensen (replace with Hronek and Cholowski or one of Hronek/Cholowski and re-sign Jensen)

2020: Green, Daley, Ericsson (replace with Hronek/Cholowski, Sulak or Saarajarvi and a top 4 UFA signing)

2021: start bringing in McIsaac, Lindstrom, etc

I don't know what there is to complain about here. You are mixing in veterans with youth while slowly getting younger.

(Also known as a REBUILD)

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Kronwall re-signs 

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Kronwall re-signs 

I don't see it. I think Kronwall will retire, especially if Zetterberg and Nyquist are gone. Even if Kronwall wants to come back, I think it's time to move on. Kroner is a shell of his former self and will be 38, going on 39 the following season. I think he calls it a career, a very good career at that.

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8 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

I'm fine with bringing Green back, but giving over $5,000,000 to a guy who can't get to 40 points is too much.

 

Two words:  Market. Pricing. 

More words: 

He played 66 games and got 33 points.  $181k per point.  There's dudes with much "better" resumes, playing more games, scoring less points, making more money.  Look it up.

To keep a guy, you gotta pay a guy.  You think he wouldn't sign somewhere else for less with a better shot at a cup?  

[insert pic of Mike Green thinking... or more like Mike Green listening to his agent]

"Hmmm.  I can take two years at 3 million in the off-season to play on a team that will make the playoffs and have a better chance at the cup, but I don't have certainty of minutes, or where I'll slot in on the team 

OR 

I can take two years at nearly 6 million, play for a team where I'll be getting top pairing minutes, be on PP1, etc.  AND THEN after the majority of the season is over and I see where teams stand and their chances, and the trade deadline looms, I can hand Kenny a list of teams I'll be willing to go to..."

 

See more "prime" ranting in the rebuild thread.

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Re-signing Green isn't scandalous. What's scandalous is that the Wings have gone roughly two decades without producing a single high-end NHL defenseman. That's why our defense is in the state it's in. That's why we keep going back to the well of middling veterans every season. Even now, our top D prospects are probably 2nd-pairing guys at best.

It's a draft-and-develop league and the Wings don't draft and develop quality NHL defensemen. Result: pain.

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11 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Re-signing Green isn't scandalous. What's scandalous is that the Wings have gone roughly two decades without producing a single high-end NHL defenseman. That's why our defense is in the state it's in. That's why we keep going back to the well of middling veterans every season. Even now, our top D prospects are probably 2nd-pairing guys at best.

It's a draft-and-develop league and the Wings don't draft and develop quality NHL defensemen. Result: pain.

Kidding aside, when it comes to drafting/developing, is E (a guy drafted at forward) our best D drafted/developed since Kronwall? Keep in mind DD wasnt drafted by us.

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7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It was clearly Jakub Kindl

You joke, but he's in the conversation. That's how f***ing atrocious our D drafting has been.

6 minutes ago, kliq said:

Yikes......ya that’s bad lol. 

Even when you allow for some leeway because the Wings have traded away so many picks over the years, it's still utterly inexcusable. Boggles my mind that more people don't bring it up.

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9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

You joke, but he's in the conversation. That's how f***ing atrocious our D drafting has been.

Even when you allow for some leeway because the Wings have traded away so many picks over the years, it's still utterly inexcusable. Boggles my mind that more people don't bring it up.

Floodgates now open for business.

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12 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't see it. I think Kronwall will retire, especially if Zetterberg and Nyquist are gone. Even if Kronwall wants to come back, I think it's time to move on. Kroner is a shell of his former self and will be 38, going on 39 the following season. I think he calls it a career, a very good career at that.

If Kronwall wants to stay. Holland will resign him. He won’t say no.

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2 hours ago, kickazz said:

If Kronwall wants to stay. Holland will resign him. He won’t say no.

Probably true, which is the biggest issue I have with Holland and this organization. There's loyalty, and then there's Red Wing Loyalty...

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17 hours ago, puckbags said:

You can't just say " take away the PP points". Green is good on the PP and generates points from it. Daley isn't and doesn't. Different skill sets. 

He's been decent when given the chance other places. Going just by points, especially comparing d-men, is useless.

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4 hours ago, Dabura said:

You joke, but he's in the conversation. That's how f***ing atrocious our D drafting has been.

Even when you allow for some leeway because the Wings have traded away so many picks over the years, it's still utterly inexcusable. Boggles my mind that more people don't bring it up.

The only thing you might fault the Wings on is the fact that from 2001-2015 we selected only two defensemen in the 1st round, and only two in the 2nd as well. Five defensemen picked 73 or higher in 1.5 decades. Only 33 picked overall.

Our success with the later picks is about average. Very small chance of an impact player in that range, so missing on even 28 in a row isn't all that unlikely. Of the higher picks, all of them except Saarijarvi so far have at least made the NHL. Above average in that regard, below in finding an impact player. But with just five picks between 19 and 73, it's not notably bad luck. Go just one year further to include Kronwall and we'd be above average, same if either Cholo or Hronek becomes something. 

In short, I don't think there's any cause to question our scouting or development, but maybe our draft priorities for a stretch.

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

If Kronwall wants to stay. Holland will resign him. He won’t say no.

54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Probably true, which is the biggest issue I have with Holland and this organization. There's loyalty, and then there's Red Wing Loyalty...

Kronwall played 79 games and scored 27 points last season. Tied for 62nd in the league in defense scoring. If he has another similar year and wants to come back after he would and should be welcome. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Buppy said:

The only thing you might fault the Wings on is the fact that

,,,they haven't produced a single high-end NHL defenseman since Niklas Kronwall.

It's inexcusable.

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2 hours ago, Buppy said:

Kronwall played 79 games and scored 27 points last season. Tied for 62nd in the league in defense scoring. If he has another similar year and wants to come back after he would and should be welcome. 

I highly doubt Kronwall will put up 27 points this season, let alone next. I also doubt he'll remain healthy for another two seasons. He has two bummed knees. He should, and likely will retire after this contract is up. I know you're going to disagree with me, but I don't care if we somehow knew that Kronwall would put up 20+ points in the 2019-20 season, I still think that spot would be better filled by one of the kids. There's no way we should extend a 39 year old Kronwall, when we're trying to rebuild this team.

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