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SwedeLundin77

Andreas Athanasiou Officially Signed 2 yrs. $3M AAV

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Good deal. I think AA has a lot of talent. Just needs to mature more and not be a little *****. 

21 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Z = Zetterberg, Z2 = Zadina, ZZ = Bertuzzi

https://www.nhl.com/player/andreas-athanasiou-8476960

https://www.nhl.com/player/gustav-nyquist-8474679?season=20172018

AA who is a purely offensive player averaged .46 point per game and was a -15 +/-

Nyquist (who doesn't cheat like AA) averaged .48 points per game and was a -2 +/- He also has a better shooting % than AA despite having a lot fewer breakaways.

So between the 2, I would choose to keep Nyquist over AA, hands down. He is just a better player.

Nyquist played with Zetterberg. Weak argument. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

So, if he's not traded, I don't want to see any of these haters cheering for him when he lights the lamp. You've made your beds.

AA will score zero goals this season and will finish -497. Bank on it. He is quite possibly the worst player in the history of the National Hockey League.

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Good deal. I think AA has a lot of talent. Just needs to mature more and not be a little *****. 

Nyquist played with Zetterberg. Weak argument. 

 

1. Nyquist also didn't hang around center ice all game waiting for outlet passes from teammates.

2. He actually plays a more rounded game which would actually DECREASE his point totals.

3. Nyquist still has a higher shooting percentage than AA with fewer breakaway chances.

None of these have anything to do with linemates. They are player to player comparisons. Nice try tho.

 

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So, if he's not traded, I don't want to see any of these haters cheering for him when he lights the lamp. You've made your beds.

Just because I think you and others overrate him doesn't mean he's not a member of this team. I am sure you NEVER cheered when Franzen scored am I right?

18 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

AA is the new whipping boy.  Gets all the tough minutes and s*** linemates, yet people expect 60 pts a year.  If he centers Vanek and Zadina this year,  he will rip it up.

If he centers Zadina and Vanek, their point totals will go down because they have to play more defense since AA doesn't.

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Double Edge.   Gotta play him to motivate him.  Can't tell him to p.k. 5 minutes a night and play with Glendening and Booth for his other 10 minutes while expecting a point a game production level.  Give him 5 mins on the pk, 5 minutes on the pp, and 10 minutes with Vanek and Larkin, I guarantee you he gets between 60-80 pts.

Holland just doubled his salary. I think he has all the motivation he needs.

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17 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

1. Nyquist also didn't hang around center ice all game waiting for outlet passes from teammates.

2. He actually plays a more rounded game which would actually DECREASE his point totals.

3. Nyquist still has a higher shooting percentage than AA with fewer breakaway chances.

None of these have anything to do with linemates. They are player to player comparisons. Nice try tho.

 

Nice try? I haven't even started trying.

What statistical evidence do you have to prove 1 and 2 actually makes a difference? 

You're talking out of your ass. 

AA actually has more defensive zone starts than Nyquist does. 47.1 vs 44.2 %. His even strength line production comes from lesser teammates. Nyquist had the luxury of playing with Mantha (our best goal scorer) and Zetterberg (our best play maker). 

As far as Corsi/Fenwick, they're about the same. Takeaway and blocked shots rate favor AA, but still about the same. AA kills penalties and Nyquist doesn't. So I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that Nyquist is more rounded? 

In fact, because AA gets less time on PP and Even strength (since he has to spend some time on PK), I'd argue that Nyquist is actually is in a more favorable position (add in the fact that he got to play with our best goal scorer and playmaker). 

And lol at #3. AA had 9.4 shooting % while Nyquist had 9.9. Wow what a big difference. 

AA is younger, still has a lot to learn; cheaper. 

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/gustav-nyquist

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/andreas-athanasiou

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/athanan01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nyquigu01.html

Edited by kickazz

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36 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Nice try? I haven't even started trying.

What statistical evidence do you have to prove 1 and 2 actually makes a difference? 

You're talking out of your ass. 

AA actually has more defensive zone starts than Nyquist does. 47.1 vs 44.2 %. His even strength line production comes from lesser teammates. Nyquist had the luxury of playing with Mantha (our best goal scorer) and Zetterberg (our best play maker). 

As far as Corsi/Fenwick, they're about the same. Takeaway and blocked shots rate favor AA, but still about the same. AA kills penalties and Nyquist doesn't. So I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that Nyquist is more rounded? 

In fact, because AA gets less time on PP and Even strength (since he has to spend some time on PK), I'd argue that Nyquist is actually is in a more favorable position (add in the fact that he got to play with our best goal scorer and playmaker). 

And lol at #3. AA had 9.4 shooting % while Nyquist had 9.9. Wow what a big difference. 

AA is younger, still has a lot to learn; cheaper. 

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/gustav-nyquist

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/andreas-athanasiou

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/athanan01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nyquigu01.html

And that's how you debate.

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24 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Nice try? I haven't even started trying.

What statistical evidence do you have to prove 1 and 2 actually makes a difference? 

You're talking out of your ass. 

AA actually has more defensive zone starts than Nyquist does. 47.1 vs 44.2 %. His even strength line production comes from lesser teammates. Nyquist had the luxury of playing with Mantha (our best goal scorer) and Zetterberg (our best play maker). 

As far as Corsi/Fenwick, they're about the same. Takeaway and blocked shots rate favor AA, but still about the same. AA kills penalties and Nyquist doesn't. So I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that Nyquist is more rounded? 

In fact, because AA gets less time on PP and Even strength (since he has to spend some time on PK), I'd argue that Nyquist is actually is in a more favorable position (add in the fact that he got to play with our best goal scorer and playmaker). 

And lol at #3. AA had 9.4 shooting % while Nyquist had 9.9. Wow what a big difference. 

AA is younger, still has a lot to learn; cheaper. 

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/gustav-nyquist

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/andreas-athanasiou

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/athanan01.html

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nyquigu01.html

You're right. They do nothing to benefit AA, which is exactly why he does them. And do I really have to post statistical evidence to support what I thought was common knowledge? The more a player focuses on playing a 2 way game, or more specifically defense, it lowers his offensive numbers.

Which allows him to cheat more by floating around the blue line while his linemates actually play defense. Can't score on a breakaway in your own zone. Referencing the websites you listed, Nyquist played 75% of the time at even strength with Z, Bertuzzi, and Mantha. AA played 75% of even strength time with Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi, and Tatar. What a bunch of Bums there.

Yeah, Because he's fast. Not anything too out of the ordinary here.

AA cheats on D and floats. Not to say he can't change that and become a more rounded player, but up until now he seems unwilling or unable to learn how.

1. because he's not in Blashill's doghouse all of the time.

2. Maybe it's because he's a better player?

3. Doesn't invalidate anything I said.

It is when you consider that a player is 113% more likely to score on a breakaway chance. Shouldn't AA's shooting percentage be higher than Nyquist's then?

https://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/3/21/2062995/2-on-1s-breakaways-and-shootouts

None of which makes him better than Nyquist.

My point is that you can't discredit Nyquist because of who his linemates are. Ovechkin scores like 50 goals a season. I could argue he looks better than Nyquist because he has better linemates, or he gets a lot more PP opportunities, when in fact, his numbers are better because he is just a better player. Is that a "weak argument" ?

Nyquist is a better hockey player than AA IMO. You can disagree if you want. That's fine. Maybe AA improves and surpasses him (I doubt it), who knows? But saying that better numbers is a "weak argument" because of who someone plays with is silly IMO.

Do we take away the Rocket Richard Trophy from the player who scores the most goals because his center was better than the other guys or because he had more PP's? No. Individual numbers matter, regardless of linemates.

You say that Nyquist was protected by Z? OK. AA played mostly with Larkin and lesser with Nielsen. Pretty good 2 way centers wouldn't you say? So Nyquist benefitted from Z but AA didn't benefit at all from Larkin? Can't have it both ways.

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3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You're right. They do nothing to benefit AA, which is exactly why he does them. And do I really have to post statistical evidence to support what I thought was common knowledge? The more a player focuses on playing a 2 way game, or more specifically defense, it lowers his offensive numbers.

Which allows him to cheat more by floating around the blue line while his linemates actually play defense. Can't score on a breakaway in your own zone. Referencing the websites you listed, Nyquist played 75% of the time at even strength with Z, Bertuzzi, and Mantha. AA played 75% of even strength time with Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi, and Tatar. What a bunch of Bums there.

Yeah, Because he's fast. Not anything too out of the ordinary here.

AA cheats on D and floats. Not to say he can't change that and become a more rounded player, but up until now he seems unwilling or unable to learn how.

1. because he's not in Blashill's doghouse all of the time.

2. Maybe it's because he's a better player?

3. Doesn't invalidate anything I said.

It is when you consider that a player is 113% more likely to score on a breakaway chance. Shouldn't AA's shooting percentage be higher than Nyquist's then?

https://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/3/21/2062995/2-on-1s-breakaways-and-shootouts

None of which makes him better than Nyquist.

My point is that you can't discredit Nyquist because of who his linemates are. Ovechkin scores like 50 goals a season. I could argue he looks better than Nyquist because he has better linemates, or he gets a lot more PP opportunities, when in fact, his numbers are better because he is just a better player. Is that a "weak argument" ?

Nyquist is a better hockey player than AA IMO. You can disagree if you want. That's fine. Maybe AA improves and surpasses him (I doubt it), who knows? But saying that better numbers is a "weak argument" because of who someone plays with is silly IMO.

Do we take away the Rocket Richard Trophy from the player who scores the most goals because his center was better than the other guys or because he had more PP's? No. Individual numbers matter, regardless of linemates.

You say that Nyquist was protected by Z? OK. AA played mostly with Larkin and lesser with Nielsen. Pretty good 2 way centers wouldn't you say? So Nyquist benefitted from Z but AA didn't benefit at all from Larkin? Can't have it both ways.

Larkin isn't as smart as Zetterberg quite yet. 

And you're still talking out your ass with no evidence other than "because I said so" and "eyeball tests".

I'll play your game, here's eyeball proof. 200 foot player visual example. Clearly has got the skill and has done it. 

Also AA is a penalty killer. Nyquist isn't. You dodged a big point I made and just said it's because he's fast lol. Pure speculation and again; you haven't given any proof.

Another example of 200 foot game. AA is the deepest forward on the backcheck before the turn over while he makes the play.

Example of him going against the boards and helping creating a turn over. So. Much. Floating.

People like to criticize AA a little too much. I agree that he's had his fair share of issues and on occasion have even spoken against him, but let's not discredit him this much. He's about as good as Nyquist is and has a higher skill set and likely will end up being a top 6 winger. And yes his speed is his biggest advantage and that's good enough in the present day NHL to make it far. Welcome to 2018 NHL. Speed kills. 

Edited by kickazz

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3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Cool. You have to go back in time then, and uncheer for the Wings when they won in 08 with you boy Johan laying waste to the Western Conference.

9 goals in 4 games and 4 goals in the rest of the entire playoffs. He dominated one team, invisible for the rest.

But hey, he threw down Kanes mouthpiece.

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11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So, if he's not traded, I don't want to see any of these haters cheering for him when he lights the lamp. You've made your beds.

This is so ridiculous lol ill be cheering for AA after every glorious breakaway, sorry.

11 hours ago, 13dangledangle said:

Im not really sure why you quoted both of those posts, they say the same thing in both.  That I didn't explain myself enough BUT I still believe in my first thought that AA can be a game changer.  You're very much taking my words and conjuring up your own little fun park with them, hopefully its been fun for you. 

Relax. Bups claimed I was strawmanning, you admitted to misrepresenting your own argument moments later. I was pointing that out.

Ill go enjoy my fun park now

10 hours ago, Dabura said:

AA will score zero goals this season and will finish -497. Bank on it. He is quite possibly the worst player in the history of the National Hockey League.

I love AA. Its a shame the overvaluing by certain individuals is leading said certain individuals to think i and others dislike him. Would love to see him contribute more on the defensive side of the puck, work better in our O zone system, and grow as a player next year. Hes not there yet thou.

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

AA has officially reached Mrazek status lol the stage is set

I look forward to this coming season bois

He hasn’t actually. People are comparing him to Nyquist who isn’t really even that good. 

Mrazek was coined a Vezina candidate for years. Aka being compared to the best in the league.

AA gets a $3 million a year bridge deal and being compared to Nyquist and you guys want to start butchering him already lol.

Not to mention the people supporting AA are for the most part agreeing that he would be a good asset to trade. 

Nothing like the Mrazek situation at all. 

Edited by kickazz

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On 7/7/2018 at 10:26 AM, Dabura said:

I do think there's something to the argument that playing him on the wing encourages laziness and bad habits in his game. I'd be down with giving him a long look at center. It'd have to be on the fourth line, though.

I agree. He was a little more responsible when they had him on center. 

But I don’t have issues with Franzen-ing (floating) if he can put up 25+ goals a year. 

Edited by kickazz

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18 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You aren't giving top effort at your job, so why be hypocritical of AA?

Joke's on you, I don't have a job

17 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So, if he's not traded, I don't want to see any of these haters cheering for him when he lights the lamp. You've made your beds.

If people can't cheer for the success of someone they've taken issues with, why do you still cheer for the Red Wings? Tippett, Hague, Kirk all play elsewhere. 

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6 hours ago, kickazz said:

He hasn’t actually. People are comparing him to Nyquist who isn’t really even that good. 

Mrazek was coined a Vezina candidate for years. Aka being compared to the best in the league.

AA gets a $3 million a year bridge deal and being compared to Nyquist and you guys want to start butchering him already lol.

Not to mention the people supporting AA are for the most part agreeing that he would be a good asset to trade. 

Nothing like the Mrazek situation at all. 

All I meant is he's looking like he will be the divisive player on the team this year...

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12 hours ago, kickazz said:

Larkin isn't as smart as Zetterberg quite yet. 

And you're still talking out your ass with no evidence other than "because I said so" and "eyeball tests".

I'll play your game, here's eyeball proof. 200 foot player visual example. Clearly has got the skill and has done it. 

Also AA is a penalty killer. Nyquist isn't. You dodged a big point I made and just said it's because he's fast lol. Pure speculation and again; you haven't given any proof.

Another example of 200 foot game. AA is the deepest forward on the backcheck before the turn over while he makes the play.

Example of him going against the boards and helping creating a turn over. So. Much. Floating.

People like to criticize AA a little too much. I agree that he's had his fair share of issues and on occasion have even spoken against him, but let's not discredit him this much. He's about as good as Nyquist is and has a higher skill set and likely will end up being a top 6 winger. And yes his speed is his biggest advantage and that's good enough in the present day NHL to make it far. Welcome to 2018 NHL. Speed kills. 

Great post.  AA is a really good player. 

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32 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

All I meant is he's looking like he will be the divisive player on the team this year...

aka Whipping Boy.  aka He's Lazy and Sucks.

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