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The Secret

Blackhawks Fire Coach Quenneville

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4 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Do you want to lose 7 to 1, and appear clueless, OR lose 4 to 2, but appear competitive?

That'll most likely be the difference between Blashill, and Coach Q.

If you don't think Q garners more wins and only makes us "appear" more competitive, what's the point, your personal dignity? A loss is a loss. Also we arn't losing games 7 to 1.

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1 minute ago, F.Michael said:

Why not fire Blashill?

Is there some unwritten rule out there that I'm not familiar with that a owner/GM cannot drop kick a guy for any little reason {cough}Gallant{cough}.

I'm not trying to be an @ss here - just saying that when there's a better option - why not take it?

I'm not trying to be an ass either but I have to ask what you think this team's vision and goal should be short and long term? 

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2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

But this team ,after years of mediocrity under Babcock, IS finally moving in the right direction

 

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Most opposing fans out there envy our mediocrity that we had with Babs...And the scary thought is - when will this team get good? We might be bad for years to come - especially if Blashill is still behind the bench...

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8 minutes ago, The Secret said:

We don't need a complete rebuild we are well on the way and have some great young players in the system.... and sucking the most doesn't guarantee anything. I think you could put McDavid on this team and it would have minimized impact due to a terrible coach and system. Look at all the talent that Edmonton has from years at the bottom and yet they have not yet found a coach that is good enough to get all that talent to work together. The coach is key  to a team coming together and moving in the right direction... if not team Canada should win just about every Olympic game with a mascot on the bench.

I kinda think you're complaining just to complain. You hate losing, I get it. We all do. Fair enough.

Personally, I feel we're a couple of really good pieces away from being a respectable playoff team and maybe a contender. Those pieces will probably come to us through the draft or through trades that we're able to make because we've amassed so many good assets through the draft. I'm content to wait a couple of years for those pieces. In the meantime, Blashill can keep doing his thing. Holland has pretty much said this is the plan.

When we get to a point where we can point to a core group of high-end guys and say, "OK, we have our core. Now is the time for us to be competing for Cups," then maybe you move on from Blashill. I just don't think that time is right now. I don't look at this team and think to myself, "This team should be doing way better than it is." This team is exactly where it deserves (and needs) to be: in the basement.

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Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'm not trying to be an ass either but I have to ask what you think this team's vision and goal should be short and long term? 

Try to win.

Losing/tanking can breed a bad culture within the Red Wings organization.

I understand we need to be bad for a few years in order to possibly obtain hi-end talent, but then again look at teams like the Oilers, Isles, Sabres, Yotes, and a few others...They've been bad for years, and chances are (regardless of their recent play) they may very well not make the playoffs again.

As I mentioned in another post - I don't expect Coach Q to make this team a playoff contender - I expect him to make this team look somewhat competent, and a legit NHL franchise.

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1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I kinda think you're complaining just to complain. You hate losing, I get it. We all do. Fair enough.

Personally, I feel we're a couple of really good pieces away from being a respectable playoff team and maybe a contender. Those pieces will probably come to us through the draft or through trades that we're able to make because we've amassed so many good assets through the draft. I'm content to wait a couple of years for those pieces. In the meantime, Blashill can keep doing his thing. Holland has pretty much said this is the plan.

When we get to a point where we can point to a core group of high-end guys and say, "OK, we have our core. Now is the time for us to be competing for Cups," then maybe you move on from Blashill. I just don't think that time is right now. I don't look at this team and think to myself, "This team should be doing way better than it is." This team is exactly where it deserves (and needs) to be: in the basement.

Pretty much my exact vision for this team should move forward.

Swapping Blash for Q, is like swapping Helm for Cogliano... Sure Cogliano is slightly better, but you haven't moved the needle in any significant way. At least not enough to make any real difference. And our draft position in theory only gets worse.

This is a selling team.

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3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Try to win.

Losing/tanking can breed a bad culture within the Red Wings organization.

I understand we need to be bad for a few years in order to possibly obtain hi-end talent, but then again look at teams like the Oilers, Isles, Sabres, Yotes, and a few others...They've been bad for years, and chances are (regardless of their recent play) they may very well not make the playoffs again.

As I mentioned in another post - I don't expect Coach Q to make this team a playoff contender - I expect him to make this team look somewhat competent, and a legit NHL franchise.

Yes! Spot on.

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4 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Try to win.

Losing/tanking can breed a bad culture within the Red Wings organization.

I understand we need to be bad for a few years in order to possibly obtain hi-end talent, but then again look at teams like the Oilers, Isles, Sabres, Yotes, and a few others...They've been bad for years, and chances are (regardless of their recent play) they may very well not make the playoffs again.

As I mentioned in another post - I don't expect Coach Q to make this team a playoff contender - I expect him to make this team look somewhat competent, and a legit NHL franchise.

This is an argument I make all the time, but in this instance I disagree with your use of it.

First off, I don't believe the difference between Blash and Q coaching wise is as wide as you would purport. Secondly, winning culture is about winning games. If you don't believe Q can win games for you, it's just a move for the sake of making a move.

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10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I kinda think you're complaining just to complain. You hate losing, I get it. We all do. Fair enough.

Personally, I feel we're a couple of really good pieces away from being a respectable playoff team and maybe a contender. Those pieces will probably come to us through the draft or through trades that we're able to make because we've amassed so many good assets through the draft. I'm content to wait a couple of years for those pieces. In the meantime, Blashill can keep doing his thing. Holland has pretty much said this is the plan.

When we get to a point where we can point to a core group of high-end guys and say, "OK, we have our core. Now is the time for us to be competing for Cups," then maybe you move on from Blashill. I just don't think that time is right now. I don't look at this team and think to myself, "This team should be doing way better than it is." This team is exactly where it deserves (and needs) to be: in the basement.

So - how often are quality coaches available?

 

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19 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I kinda think you're complaining just to complain. You hate losing, I get it. We all do. Fair enough.

Personally, I feel we're a couple of really good pieces away from being a respectable playoff team and maybe a contender. Those pieces will probably come to us through the draft or through trades that we're able to make because we've amassed so many good assets through the draft. I'm content to wait a couple of years for those pieces. In the meantime, Blashill can keep doing his thing. Holland has pretty much said this is the plan.

When we get to a point where we can point to a core group of high-end guys and say, "OK, we have our core. Now is the time for us to be competing for Cups," then maybe you move on from Blashill. I just don't think that time is right now. I don't look at this team and think to myself, "This team should be doing way better than it is." This team is exactly where it deserves (and needs) to be: in the basement.

I'm not complaining just to complain. I'm old and have seen and played a lot of hockey... Dead Wings sucked if you wanted to see winning and I was a HUGE fan. Besides a tonne of losing they had scoring, they had fighting, they had old washed up stars and they were fun to watch. They made it tough on opponents. I have to pay to watch Red Wing games where I live and the 1st 2 seasons under Blashill I did pay but found that I couldn't watch such a confused looking mess. By the sound of things is hasn't improved much if at all. I'm complaining because I think we need change to both the GM and coaching positions. I want to watch my Wings play again and I want a team worth paying for and this isn't it.

Edited by The Secret

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13 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Why not fire Blashill?

Is there some unwritten rule out there that I'm not familiar with that a owner/GM cannot drop kick a guy for any little reason {cough}Gallant{cough}.

I'm not trying to be an @ss here - just saying that when there's a better option - why not take it?

Quenneville is not necessarily a better option, all things considered. And that's assuming he even wants to come here, which I'm assuming is not the case.

Why not fire Blashill? Because he's giving you what you want, more or less. Holland has all but said this was always going to be a season of pain and that he's looking at next season as the season where we begin to turn things around.

Blashill's being a good soldier. He's performing a largely thankless job and, despite what some people would have you believe, he's doing a pretty good job of bringing the kids along. Kicking him to the curb for a high-profile name might be justifiable in some cases. In this case? I think it would be a dick move and would only serve to make prospective head coaches more cautious about taking the Detroit job in the future.

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2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

This is an argument I make all the time, but in this instance I disagree with your use of it.

First off, I don't believe the difference between Blash and Q coaching wise is as wide as you would purport. Secondly, winning culture is about winning games. If you don't believe Q can win games for you, it's just a move for the sake of making a move.

Do you think the current roster of Wings players is aware of who Coach Q is, and what he's accomplished?

I know it's a dumb question, but my point being is that I'm certain having a guy with his experience would most likely have an affect (or is it effect) on the players - a positive one, and IMHO that's what this franchise can use.

To me it would be like asking why hire Yzerman when we have Holland?

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3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm really not sure how people expected this team to perform this season. Would a different coach make this team any better? Maybe... I'm not sure though. Larkin is having a breakout season. Mantha has struggled. I doubt that's on Blashill though. Athanasiou was playing the best hockey I've seen him play prior to the injury. Bertuzzi is playing above expectations. Rasmussen is playing as well as you can expect a 19 year-old. Cholowski has far exceeded expectations. Who are all these kids that he's "ruining their development"?

EDIT: Even if a different coach like Quenneville would make this team slightly better, is that really the best thing for this team going forward. No it's not...

People are just sick of Blash, it's that simple. Sick of his system, sick of his face, sick of his voice. Time to go. Rather lose with another coach that doesn't make me want to mute my TV every time he speaks.

Edited by xault

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11 minutes ago, The Secret said:

I'm not complaining just to complain. I'm old and have seen and played a lot of hockey... Dead Wings sucked if you wanted to see winning and I was a HUGE fan. Besides a tonne of losing they had scoring, they had fighting, they had old washed up stars and they were fun to watch. They made it tough on opponents. I have to pay to watch Red Wing games where I live and the 1st 2 seasons under Blashill I did pay but found that I was couldn't watch such a confused looking mess. By the sound of things is hasn't improved much if at all. I'm complaining because I think we need change to both the GM and coaching positions. I want to watch my Wings play again and I want a team worth paying for and this isn't it.

I recommend watching some Wings games. Then, when you say, "This is a crap poduct that I find unwatchable," your complaint will carry more weight.

Edited by Dabura

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2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I recommend watching some Wings games. Then, when you say, "This is a crap poduct that I find unwatchable," your complaint will carry more weight.

I've seen enough of the Blashill Red Wings to know it is not worth my hard earned money or my time. I follow the team through LGW, through highlights, through my fantasy league, and through fans still watching and complaining etc. I am comfortable saying what I say without wasting hours to watch garbage on ice. I've seen several instances of the vast improvement to the team over-all when a good coach is in control.

I recommend voicing your concern by hitting them where it hurts... do not spend any money on Red Wing anything until changes are made.

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1 minute ago, The Secret said:

I've seen enough of the Blashill Red Wings to know it is not worth my hard earned money or my time. I follow the team through LGW, through highlights, through my fantasy league, and through fans still watching and complaining etc. I am comfortable saying what I say without wasting hours to watch garbage on ice. I've seen several instances of the vast improvement to the team over-all when a good coach is in control.

I recommend voicing your concern by hitting them where it hurts... do not spend any money on Red Wing anything until changes are made.

 

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31 minutes ago, The Secret said:

I've seen enough of the Blashill Red Wings to know it is not worth my hard earned money or my time. I follow the team through LGW, through highlights, through my fantasy league, and through fans still watching and complaining etc. I am comfortable saying what I say without wasting hours to watch garbage on ice. I've seen several instances of the vast improvement to the team over-all when a good coach is in control.

I recommend voicing your concern by hitting them where it hurts... do not spend any money on Red Wing anything until changes are made.

Do you also form an opinion on a team that you haven't watched in a couple seasons based on Twitter and Facebook comments?... You know the ones...

"Holland sucks"... "Blashill sucks"... "[insert player name] sucks"... "this team sucks"... "everything sucks...

:confused:

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7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Do you also form an opinion on a team that you haven't watched in a couple seasons based on Twitter and Facebook comments?... You know the ones...

"Holland sucks"... "Blashill sucks"... "[insert player name] sucks"... "this team sucks"... "everything sucks...

:confused:

thats-my-scecret.jpg

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1 minute ago, The Secret said:

I've seen enough of the Blashill Red Wings to know it is not worth my hard earned money or my time. I follow the team through LGW, through highlights, through my fantasy league, and through fans still watching and complaining etc. I am comfortable saying what I say without wasting hours to watch garbage on ice. I've seen several instances of the vast improvement to the team over-all when a good coach is in control.

I recommend voicing your concern by hitting them where it hurts... do not spend any money on Red Wing anything until changes are made.

I'm just trying to help out your cause. If you're gonna make pointed arguments about specific aspects of the situation, the whole "I don't watch the games" thing kinda sinks your credibility. I'm not critcizing you for being a "bad fun" or whatever. No elitism here. I'm just saying.

Team isn't winning, which sucks. But there are some bright spots and signs that this sucking is more a talent issue than a coaching issue. Larkin is blossoming into a really good NHLer and a really good leader. The other kids are doing their best and, for the most part, putting up good numbers. Bertuzzi's really showing well this season. A year or two ago I was just about ready to write him off as a fringe NHLer or a career fourth-liner and now I can't imagine our team without him.

We've had some ugly losses this season. Very much a "When it rains, it pours" thing. But I'd say most of our 10 losses came down to us simply being outgunned by teams with more talent. We don't have that top-end talent that most teams do, which means we don't have much depth, which means we're going to lose a lot of games. McDavid shredded us on Saturday night, making Larkin -- out best player -- look stupid. That's just the way it goes. The best revenge is getting a superstar or two of our own, and the path to that reality runs through the draft.

To be completely honest, I'm kinda surprised that the games have been as close as they've been. I believe Blashill is doing an overall good job with the troops he has at his disposal. Every night he does something that I'll disagree with, but it's rare that I want to hang the loss squarely on him.

Like, for a long time now I've been of two opposed minds on Blashill's obsession with the o-zone cycle and his belief that scoring chances are more important than your basic shot counts/metrics. On the one hand, it drives me nuts to see the team pass up the kinds of shooting opportunities that they pass up every night. On the other hand, I understand and appreciate -- and, at the end of the day, approve of -- his effort to get the younger players to focus on the actual *possession* element of puck possession. Blashill's trying to teach these kids that registering 40+ shots on goal every night is a simple man's game, that one of the things that made a team like the 2008 Red Wings so good, beyond the sheer talent level at the top of the depth chart, was the players' ability to make plays. They could pass the puck around in the o-zone, spread out the zone, spread out the opposing D -- work the opposing team into the ground. They owned the puck and they challenged the opposing team to take it from them by force. It's an important lesson and I give Blashill a lot of credit for not backing away from it. This team badly wants to be a team that lives and dies by the rush and Blashill has very clearly been pushing back against that for some time now. Like I said, drives me crazy, but I also think it's the right call.

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1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Do you think the current roster of Wings players is aware of who Coach Q is, and what he's accomplished?

I know it's a dumb question, but my point being is that I'm certain having a guy with his experience would most likely have an affect (or is it effect) on the players - a positive one, and IMHO that's what this franchise can use.

To me it would be like asking why hire Yzerman when we have Holland?

I don't think hiring Yzerman will change much of anything either.

There is one prescription to fix this team: Lose

We need superstars, and the way you get them in today's NHL is to lose hockey games. Not saying I like it, or even agree with it, but that's what needs to be done. Coach Q probably won't change this situation at all, but if he does make us better that actually probably ends up hurting us at this point in time.

When the time is right, when we have some core pieces, then we look to make a coaching change if we are still unhappy with Blash. In the meantime, Blash is good with kids and the kids are flourishing, so leave him be.

1 hour ago, xault said:

People are just sick of Blash, it's that simple. Sick of his system, sick of his face, sick of his voice. Time to go. Rather lose with another coach that doesn't make me want to mute my TV every time he speaks.

Most honest guy here

54 minutes ago, The Secret said:

I've seen enough of the Blashill Red Wings to know it is not worth my hard earned money or my time. I follow the team through LGW, through highlights, through my fantasy league, and through fans still watching and complaining etc. I am comfortable saying what I say without wasting hours to watch garbage on ice. I've seen several instances of the vast improvement to the team over-all when a good coach is in control.

I recommend voicing your concern by hitting them where it hurts... do not spend any money on Red Wing anything until changes are made.

All you're doing is admitting to being a fair-weather/bandwagon fan... yet also claiming you know the state of the team better than most of us here who watch 60 plus RW games a season rain or shine. I'll take those opinions over yours any day.

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12 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Like, for a long time now I've been of two opposed minds on Blashill's obsession with the o-zone cycle and his belief that scoring chances are more important than your basic shot counts/metrics. On the one hand, it drives me nuts to see the team pass up the kinds of shooting opportunities that they pass up every night. On the other hand, I understand and appreciate -- and, at the end of the day, approve of -- his effort to get the younger players to focus on the actual *possession* element of puck possession. Blashill's trying to teach these kids that registering 40+ shots on goal every night is a simple man's game, that one of the things that made a team like the 2008 Red Wings so good, beyond the sheer talent level at the top of the depth chart, was the players' ability to make plays. They could pass the puck around in the o-zone, spread out the zone, spread out the opposing D -- work the opposing team into the ground. They owned the puck and they challenged the opposing team to take it from them by force. It's an important lesson and I give Blashill a lot of credit for not backing away from it. This team badly wants to be a team that lives and dies by the rush and Blashill has very clearly been pushing back against that for some time now. Like I said, drives me crazy, but I also think it's the right call.

To add to this, I think Larkin is a nice illustrative example of the stuff I'm talking about.

  • Year 1: Great. Looks like a big-time goal-scorer.
  • Year 2: Bad. Teams realize his game is pretty simple and predictable and they shut him down.
  • Year 3: Great. Takes a big step forward on multiple fronts, displays high-level playmaking ability that no one thought he had.
  • Year 4: So far, so good. Picking up where he left off in Year 3 and is now doing good things in a very tough role.

I think Blashill had a lot to do with Larkin growing his game after his disappointing sophomore season. I think Blashill pushed him to be less of a rush guy and more of a cycle guy, more of a playmaker. This is, I think, a good example of a good coach helping a good player along. It's the intersection of talent and instruction. I think if we had more Larkins, we'd be seeing more of this and we'd be winning more games. Point being, talent alone isn't enough and coaching isn't the be-all and end-all. You need both and they need to be in harmony.

Do we have that kind of harmony? In my opinion, no, we don't. Whatever you think about Blashill, it's a lack of high-end talent that's doing us in, IMO. Blashill is doing good work with what he has, but what he has is less than what all the other NHL head coaches have.

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19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

All you're doing is admitting to being a fair-weather/bandwagon fan... yet also claiming you know the state of the team better than most of us here who watch 60 plus RW games a season rain or shine. I'll take those opinions over yours any day.

Yeah you will. 

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