Report: Detroit to name Steve Yzerman as GM

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, e_prime said:

Great.  So when Larkin is traded in his ninth season with the Wings, much like when Matt Duchene was traded from the Avalanche and we have our MacKinnon (drafted four years after Duchene ...hmmmm a player drafted in 2018? Maybe one that you regularly emasculate. ...or maybe just an Average Joe.  Hmm. No matter. I digress.) 

Anyway, when we trade Larkin, we'll acquire players along the like of Samuel Girard, Vladislav Kamenev Andrew Hammond, and Shane Bowers as well as a  first- second- and third-round pick in a three team trade with say... The Preds and The Sens.

(Note:  I didn't cherry pick these names or the picks.  They're exactly whatever the Avs got or did not get from the Sens and Preds. I'm not and won't evaluating the talent or the picks or whom was picked with those picks in 2018. Just stating the facts, ma'am.  Bold to indicate what was the return from the Preds and what the trash from the Sens was  )

Thank god. Finally some stimulating discussion. This place has been a ghost town besides the Koreans.

You're taking my Duchene comparison much too literally. The years drafted and the package coming back is beside my point.

I'm merely using him as an example of a core player shipped out in his prime. And Mackinnon as the superior building block replacing him. It helps that they're all centers as well I guess and that the Avs were in doldrums like us.

IMO Larkin is more at the Duchene level talent-wise than he is the Mackinnon level. At the end of the day I wanna build a championship team, so I want a Mackinnon level building block at 1C. Building a team around Larkin is the same as building one around Duchene IMO. It won't be an awful team, but It's not gonna get us to the parade. Therefore I see hanging on to the current core as simply stalling for time. Which is okay to do (we can't trade everyone in one season) but at the end of the day it's just prolonging an eventuality, and in fact we may get better returns trading players at 24 (with RFA control) instead of 27.

Now I'm under no illusion that we couldn't draft say Byfield, Rossi, or Stutzle this year and they develop into the Mackinnon level center that I yearn for, or even maybe Veleno or Rasmussen could be the 1C on top of Larkin. Could happen, and we keep both players. I just doubt it.

The issue I'm trying to push is purely temporal. If you recognize that Mantha is never gonna be an elite 1RW, and Larkin never an elite 1C, I prefer not waiting and starting the overhaul now early in these doldrums. Having these good, but not great, players sticking around merely to serve as placeholders in losing seasons does not entice me at all. I'd prefer to cash in those chips for more dice rolls in the draft and prospects sooner than later. In my mind it will make these doldrums worse for the time being, but the rebuild much faster. Like literally pulling off a band-aid.

The funniest part in this line of thinking to me is that I'm essentially arguing for canceling the core Holland built, and bringing in an Yzerman core. And yet in the next few paragraphs I'm about to defend Holland and criticize Yzerman!

4 hours ago, e_prime said:

Speaking of the Sens.  You really want to be in the debacle the Sens are in to rebuild??  You envy the situation that got them into the place where they are with picks in this draft.  Okay. That's you, man.  It's a hard pass from me.  The Sens are a steaming trash heap that's somehow not on fire whilst sitting inside of an actual dumpster fire. No thank you.

Look around you. We're already there.

We have absolutely zero room for hubris.

4 hours ago, e_prime said:

You called AA a peripheral player and now you're saying "30 in '19."  30 what?  Locker room tantrums?  PIM?  AA doesn't have 30 goals.  He doesn't have 30 points.  He has 27.  That's not 30.  What I said is that he is a problem child... and Steve is only willing to suffer a problem child for so long. 

Problem child talk is all rumor that no one can substantiate apart from one quote citing an anonymous source that came after the trade.

I will not argue that he wasn't a peripheral player this year. He was played that way by his coach, and his stat sheet also reflected it.

However 2018/19 was a VERY different season for him. Just like it was also a very different season for Larkin as well. Both players had down disappointing years this year, yet the fanbase is eager to come up with any excuse for one and completely abandon the other. Seems a bit unfair and hypocritical to me.

That all said, my main gripe is that Yzerman chose to trade him this year and not next. And I concede that I think the same for Larkin. If you're going for value Fabbri, Bertuzzi, and Mantha were the ones trending upwards this year that we could have sold high on.

4 hours ago, e_prime said:

Absolutely Steve Yzerman derailed Ken Holland's redemption story.  Why wouldn't he?  COVID-19.  No, no.  It's CAPTAIN-19.  Anyway, Kenny should have stepped away earlier all those years ago and let Steve rise to his destined position as GM of our beloved Red Wings that much earlier.  Then we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.  Holland was selfish.  Maybe he did Steve a favor by taking on that broken down old defenseman and peripheral player.  Meanwhile, Steve Yzerman doesn't owe Ken Holland a damn thing except to derail him as a GM.  Also, who won that trade.  Sam Gagne.  That's who.

Meh I see Ken Holland's final years as the product of an owner trying to keep a streak alive and a team limping. As soon as ownership accepted that it was finally time to rebuild he was doing a great job again.

So far I am far from impressed with Yzerman. I like the Fabbri acquisition and the Seider pick and the rest is downright bad or easily forgettable in my book. I think his hiring has accomplished one major goal for ownership, assuaging a rightly upset fanbase. Yzerman is the golden boy who makes us remember how it feels to be warm and fuzzy inside, buying the team some time with fans. For me, I'll pat his back when he makes good moves for the franchise and slap his PP when he doesn't, same as I would treat anyone.

4 hours ago, e_prime said:

...and as far as Steve building a team through high draft picks?  Well, duh. With this team? What else is he gonna do.  Even with ya boy Seider, the team he has currently looks poised to deposit a few more into his lap. So great. It's all going to plan.   Also, I just named two players drafted in the third round, that he drafted that are doing pretty well with that previous team so... yeah... You may have missed my point there. Not all high draft picks. ...and even then some of those high draft picks he build his team around that you pointed out... he didn't draft.  Some he inherited, some drafted, and some he traded for. 

No I think we see eye to eye here. Yzerman also just inherited multiple 1st round players by coming here, trading for ones in guys like Fabbri and Perlini, and he'll get more through the draft like he also did in Tampa.

My point was simply that 1st round picks are the bees knees and we need as many as we can get, and 3rds are nice too but less of value. Every team has 3rd round picks that squeak through and become successful. Holland has recently Athanasiou, Mrazek, Janmark, Ehn, Nyquist, etc. Yzerman deserves praise for finding good players in the 3rd, but so then do a lot of GMs... like Holland as well.

4 hours ago, e_prime said:

So yeah, a complete overhaul is probably coming.  I've never said that this team doesn't need it.  Ultimately, I think you're right.  It's coming.  Yzerman has had the guts to trade a lot of players that people have said, "what? he traded who? wow!"  So maybe you'll get your wish and Larkin will be traded.   

Dang i should have read your last paragraph first.

Obviously I'm being very reactionary. But i would say I (rightly so) have different expectations and tolerances for playoff teams, bubble teams, and basement teams. I see this season as a breaking point. It's not a team I want to build around anymore. I'd instead like to keep digging down until we pop out on the other side with the next Yzerman or Lidstrom. Larkin's and Mantha's will become distant memories quickly if we can do that. And I'd like to do that as fast as possible. IDK how many humiliating season I can take b4 I stop watching. With the Pistons it was very few for me.

I do think Yzerman has vision. Men with vision go a long way in any business.

Edited March 20, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Scott R Lucidi 457]

21 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Someone on reddit recently asked "who do you think is the best GM in the league"

I was pleased to see just about all the top answers were this, and in this order:

1. Yzerman
2. Brisebois
3. Sakic

No doubt there's a bit of recency bias because of the back to to back wins by Tampa. And also I completely disagree that Brisebois should be considered a top GM. He's literally the new Holland. Inherited the team Yzerman built. Sakic is definitely up there with Yzerman though.

Pretty cool that rival best captains Yzerman and Sakic turned into rival best GM's

The Knights GM should be top 5.  He has performed very admirably.

[Scott R Lucidi 457]

3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

McPhee or McCrimmon?

current

[Akakabuto 1,751]

16 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Someone on reddit recently asked "who do you think is the best GM in the league"

I was pleased to see just about all the top answers were this, and in this order:

1. Yzerman
2. Brisebois
3. Sakic

No doubt there's a bit of recency bias because of the back to to back wins by Tampa. And also I completely disagree that Brisebois should be considered a top GM. He's literally the new Holland. Inherited the team Yzerman built. Sakic is definitely up there with Yzerman though.

Pretty cool that rival best captains Yzerman and Sakic turned into rival best GM's

You have to go back

[bIueadams 776]

SY F'ed up the tank/rebuild seriously

[_SP_ 129]

13 hours ago, bIueadams said:

SY F'ed up the tank/rebuild seriously

IDK.

There's worse issues than having a team with Larkin, Bertuzzi, Raymond as a top line.  Our D corps has some serious potential coming through the pipeline.  If we see a 2.00-2.25 GAA across an entire season... watch out.  There is plenty enough firepower up front to win a Cup in the next 3-6 years.  You should see Edvisson in a Wing sweater next year... Sebrango sometime in 2022-2023, Wallinder and Johansson in 2023-2024... You add one more veteran top-2 / top-4 player and that is some serious strength on the back end by 2024.  Even if just two of Tyutyayev, Söderblom, Berggren, and Niederbach end up as top nine players, this team is ready to compete based on that D alone.  

Edvisson - Seider
Johansson - FA/Trade
Wallinder - Hronek
Sebrango - Tuomisto
McIssac - Lindstrom

That is a stud depth chart considering their ages!!

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:22 AM, bIueadams said:

SY F'ed up the tank/rebuild seriously

The big problem with the NHL is the perpetual tank.  Buffalo and New Jersey should not be in the lottery after receiving multiple top picks recently.  The only way to fix this is to have a penalty for multiple last place finishes.  The minor league stadiums arent big enough for an EPL style relegation system, so you need to move the draft picks for the multiple last place finishers of each division to the end of the rounds.

[bIueadams 776]

I was at The Landing bar and grill in East Gwillimbury the other week and I started talking to some local Ontario boys. Told them I was a wings fan, and they said they loved Yzerman and that he's the best player from Ontario not named Wayne. I said to them I'm pretty sure he's from BC. They laughed and said no he grew up in Ontario.

Loonies... did I fuq up here? I paid my tab quick and hustled out embarrassed. Was I wrong though?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, bIueadams said:

I was at The Landing bar and grill in East Gwillimbury the other week and I started talking to some local Ontario boys. Told them I was a wings fan, and they said they loved Yzerman and that he's the best player from Ontario not named Wayne. I said to them I'm pretty sure he's from BC. They laughed and said no he grew up in Ontario.

Loonies... did I fuq up here? I paid my tab quick and hustled out embarrassed. Was I wrong though?

Youre not wrong.  He moved to Ontario at 10 years old after converting to Velenoism.

[Axl Foley 227]

Peterboro Petes

[kipwinger 8,529]

Has there been a more important addition to this team than bringing in Bob Boughner to handle the defense and PK?

[Axl Foley 227]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Has there been a more important addition to this team than bringing in Bob Boughner to handle the defense and PK?

Alex DeBrincat