2020 Draft Thread

[mackel 681]

On 9/28/2020 at 8:29 AM, krsmith17 said:

So you think it's reasonable to look at Zadina, and think Svechnikov or bust? That's the worst rationale I've heard yet... So if Svechnikov is a 90-100 point winger, and Zadina, picked 4 spots after him, is only a 70-80 point winger, it's reasonable to consider him a bust?

The issue I have with mackel calling Zadina a bust, is that he was calling him a bust since the day we drafted him. Based on absolutely nothing. And he's too proud to admit he was wrong, so he's going to continue to run this into the ground.

Zadina will be a legitimate top six winger, and that's not a bust at 6th overall, no matter how you want to spin it.

Hold on ya douchcanoe I gave plenty of rationale... just because you has your rose colored glasses on and missed it... well that's not my fault. 

Since there has been nothing to indicate I'm wrong, I'm not being stubborn.  I'm confident. 

If anything your scale for Zadina has been sliding, from superstar in the making to top 6 forward.  That's a big drop for a guy so highly touted... AND you're a fan boy to boot... so if you're lowering your own projection, just imagine what people who haven't ridden the hype train think of this scrub.

On 9/28/2020 at 1:11 PM, The 91 of Ryans said:

Because holding people accountable for their s*** takes and opinions is how this place rolls. You should know.

If only it was a shot take... 

[mackel 681]

6 hours ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Sens willing to move the 5th

 

Zadina (before the hype completely fades) and #32.

For #5 and a bad contract or attitude they want to move.

They get a player with 2 years of "development" and the best 2nd rounder available. 

We get out from under a failing prospect and get a chance to let Yzerman make a good selection at 5.

On 9/28/2020 at 12:13 AM, The 91 of Ryans said:

Makel actually looks at Zadina's numbers. Thinks. 

Ah. I got it! Injuries!!! THAT's why he's a bust now. It was injuries all along. 

Those numbers aren't very impressive. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 hours ago, mackel said:

Hold on ya douchcanoe I gave plenty of rationale... just because you has your rose colored glasses on and missed it... well that's not my fault. 

Yes, your "rationale"...

"Zadina sucks"...
"I would know. I watched him play live a couple times"...
"Zadina is a bust"...
"Every single hockey analyst or fan that says otherwise, is dumb"...

11 hours ago, mackel said:

Since there has been nothing to indicate I'm wrong, I'm not being stubborn.  I'm confident. 

... except for the fact that there has been something to indicate you're wrong... his play last season. He performed like a top six NHL winger last season as one of the youngest players in the league, on the worst team in the league, and still put up over half a point per game. Average players, let alone "busts", don't put up those sort of numbers as a just turned 20 year old rookie...

11 hours ago, mackel said:

If anything your scale for Zadina has been sliding, from superstar in the making to top 6 forward.  That's a big drop for a guy so highly touted... AND you're a fan boy to boot... so if you're lowering your own projection, just imagine what people who haven't ridden the hype train think of this scrub.

My "scale" for Zadina hasn't been "sliding" at all actually. He has already proven that he's a capable top six winger, which would refute any of your dumbass "bust" theories, but I still believe he has the potential to be an elite NHL winger. Nothing has changed on that. 

Look around dude. You're one of the few that hasn't "ridden the hype train". Ten million people are wrong though. Two dumbasses known as mackel and christopherreeveslegs are obviously the only two that know the real truth about Zadina's future...

11 hours ago, mackel said:

Those numbers aren't very impressive. 

... except that they are...

Three players (Dahlin, Svechnikov, Tkachuk) drafted before Zadina have been better. We didn't have an opportunity to draft any of them. Two (Kotkaniemi, Hayton) have been worse. Only one player (Hughes) drafted after Zadina has been better.

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

You've been delivered rationale multiple times. I've written pages about my problems with Zadina's play and abilities and you always run silent after these extensive explanations. You complain that "Zadina sucks" is overly simple, but then STFU when it's expanded on. In reality you love "Zadina sucks" because it's the only thing simple enough for you to muster your simple arguments against.

Zadina is a one dimensional player with good hustle, decision making, and a wicked shot. He severely lacks situational awareness, and is behind his draft pedigree peers in the ability to read a play in both zones. He's destined to be a periphery trigger man who brings no other real tangible positives to the game. He will be heavily dependent on his linemates and an elite center to make plays for him.

Your scale has slid severely. The scale for the fanbase has slid severely. Just the other day I saw some sub 500 post user talking hopefully about how Zadina will be a middle 6 winger one day lol

I can write pages about why Zadina projects to be a top line winger as well. It's your opinion vs mine. Zadina is one dimensional? Except that he's not. He's often been lauded for his two-way game. He severely lacks situational awareness? Says who? You? I see him reading plays and being in the right position all the time. If anything, this is one of his strengths, not at all a weakness.

Everything you're saying is just words with no real meaning, or at least no relation to Zadina.

What we do have to go on, that is actual concrete, not just opinion, is his point totals. He struggled early on, but since has been very good for a player his age, experience and situation.

Zadina is far from a bust. He doesn't suck. It's sad that there are fans that are hoping so badly to be right, even if it's at the detriment of their team...

[krsmith17 7,191]

18 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Then write it. You don't have an opinion of your own. You just regurgitate what Corey Pronman writes like its gospel.

YES. ME. That's who's writing it. I'm capable of reading about a player, watching a player, and developing an independent opinion.

Yeah, Zadina is in the correct position to fire a shot often. That's what a good trigger man - which he is - does. But elite ability in creating plays just isn't there. He's gonna be dependent on Larkin or someone else to do all the work and spoon feed him his entire career. It's incredibly more frustrating in the defensive zone with Zadina. For an offensive oriented winger he really hustles his ass back to play D. And his ability to strip the puck with his stick is nearly Datsyukian level good. However he doesn't get to use this ability nearly often enough because he's seemingly incapable of understanding an offensive play in reverse. If I could put Ehn's defensive brain in his body he would be a Hossa level winger already. But it's not unfortunately.

When did you become an existentialist? Go with Christ brah.

Lol there's a lot more to hockey than a stat sheet. Jiri Hudler scored 76 in '15. ELITE!

What helps the team is accurately assessing players and acting accordingly. Blindly saying Zadina is so super awesome at everything would be a detriment to this team. Zadina is very talented player with some very serious flaws. And he needs to be treated as such.

You're an ignorant f***. I don't regurgitate anything Pronman or anyone else says. I have my own opinions. I know you don't believe me (nor do I care), but I've watched a lot of Zadina over the past couple years, and everything I'm saying is my own f***ing opinion. An opinion I share with most Wings fans, and even fans of other teams that know anything at all about Zadina as a player.

You get upset because guys like Pronman think highly of Zadina, and you don't. You assume people just read what he says and are incapable of forming their own opinion. That's not the case at all. All a guy like Pronman does, is confirm what we all already knew. Zadina is a top end prospect with a ton of potential.

You don't think anyone should take Pronman seriously, but everyone should take you seriously... Get the f*** over yourself dude...

You can point out flaws in his game. No one is saying he's a perfect player. But saying he sucks or he's a bust is very different. It's very clear by everything you say that you don't think that, but yet, here you are, still defending mackel for calling him a bust...

[mackel 681]

23 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You're an ignorant f***. I don't regurgitate anything Pronman or anyone else says. I have my own opinions. I know you don't believe me (nor do I care), but I've watched a lot of Zadina over the past couple years, and everything I'm saying is my own f***ing opinion. An opinion I share with most Wings fans, and even fans of other teams that know anything at all about Zadina as a player.

You get upset because guys like Pronman think highly of Zadina, and you don't. You assume people just read what he says and are incapable of forming their own opinion. That's not the case at all. All a guy like Pronman does, is confirm what we all already knew. Zadina is a top end prospect with a ton of potential.

You don't think anyone should take Pronman seriously, but everyone should take you seriously... Get the f*** over yourself dude...

You can point out flaws in his game. No one is saying he's a perfect player. But saying he sucks or he's a bust is very different. It's very clear by everything you say that you don't think that, but yet, here you are, still defending mackel for calling him a bust...

He is a one dimensional player with no prospect of being a complete player.

You keep bringing me up, I really only talk about Zadina when you bring it/me up directly or indirectly in your posts.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop... I've explained my rational on this repeatedly... you disagree (and are wrong) that's your right.  But I'm sick of dealing with your BS.  You bring nothing to the discussion, quoting the hype doesn't make it fact.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, mackel said:

He is a one dimensional player with no prospect of being a complete player.

You keep bringing me up, I really only talk about Zadina when you bring it/me up directly or indirectly in your posts.

LOL, yeah okay bud...

5 minutes ago, mackel said:

I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop... I've explained my rational on this repeatedly... you disagree (and are wrong) that's your right.  But I'm sick of dealing with your BS.  You bring nothing to the discussion, quoting the hype doesn't make it fact.

Quoting the hype? What does that even mean?

You bring sooo much to the discussion... "durrr, Zadina = bust"

6 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

"What I say lines up exactly with what media says but trust me they are all my own unique opinions" Sure guy.

I'm not upset at Pronman. I'm upset that all you can do is parrot what you're told by Pronman and his media buddies. You haven't offered a single unique opinion about Zadina in the entire time I've known you. 

Not at all. I think Pronman has a ton of solid insight and opinions. But he also gets things wrong. And I probably disagree with him on Zadina. But I'm not here to discuss Zadina with Corey. I'm here to discuss Zadina with you. And all you can say is "Zadina real gud, media agree with me". It's sad.

I'm not here to defend Mackel. I'm jumping in on the conversation because of your BS complaints about Mackel's rationale while offering very little of your own. 

Again, I'm not parroting anything from Pronman or anyone else. I have an opinion that aligns with others, and somehow you come to the conclusion that it's not my opinion at all, but just an opinion that has been fed to me, making it my own.

Again, get the f*** over yourself.

All you can say is "Zadina real bad, I have unique opinion".

I just shut down your dumb claim about Zadina being weak defensively and positionally, and that's all you got. Like I said, you clearly don't believe Zadina is a bust, based on everything you've said. So why are you still trying to keep up the charade?

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Yes because you still haven't said a single unique thing about this player.

As far as I know I'm the first one to point out how good Zadina's ability to strip the puck with his stick is. I literally said the first time I wrote about it that it's something that I think all the "experts" and fans are sleeping on, because I had not read about it from anyone. But was really impressed by it when I observed it.

For a player you've supposedly watched a ton you seem to have very little similar insight or depth to offer on him. It's always just "he's gonna be real good, everyone agrees with me".

There's no charade. I've verbatim told you he's not a bust multiple times now. I've verbatim told you I think he's Hudler 2.0. You're just willfully ignoring that information because your simpleton arguments work better against simple assertions.

What more do you want me to say that hasn't been said by someone at some point? I guarantee everything that could possibly be said of his game, has already been said by Pronman or one of his "media buddies"...

Me: "Zadina has an elite shot."
CRL: "You can't say that, because Pronman has already said it."

Me: "His two-way game is above average, especially for a scoring winger."
CRL: "Nope, can't say that either."

CRL: "Zadina is one-dimensional."
Me: "No actually he's not. He has a lethal shot, is a sneaky good setup guy, and plays both ends of the ice"
CRL: "lol what are you talking about?"

You think because you have a unique opinion, you're this big brain hockey genius. And everyone else that shares an opinion with one of the more highly regarded prospect analysts, they're dumb, and unable to form their own opinion.

You're right. You were the first person EVER to notice how good Zadina's stick is. No one else noticed that. Thanks for that...

Get. Over. Yourself.

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

It hasn't. I specifically gave his ability to steal with the stick as an example of that. And the more Zadina plays and develops the more there will be to observe and comment on. However - despite this - you still just parrot his draft day profile. Which is precisely why I question the lack in depth of your "unique opinion".

I think because I can think for myself I have a unique opinion. I share plenty of opinions on Zadina with the "highly regarded hockey analysts" and I also don't share some. And I also have some that, as far as I can see, none of the great and powerful analysts have even commented on yet.

But I'm sure it's just a pure coincidence that all your "unique" opinions just so happen to line up with exactly everything everyone else is saying. Quote that hype.

LOL Seriously dude, get over yourself. You're not the big brain hockey genius you believe yourself to be. You're a f***ing joke.

[mackel 681]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL, yeah okay bud...

Quoting the hype? What does that even mean?

You bring sooo much to the discussion... "durrr, Zadina = bust"

Again, I'm not parroting anything from Pronman or anyone else. I have an opinion that aligns with others, and somehow you come to the conclusion that it's not my opinion at all, but just an opinion that has been fed to me, making it my own.

Again, get the f*** over yourself.

All you can say is "Zadina real bad, I have unique opinion".

I just shut down your dumb claim about Zadina being weak defensively and positionally, and that's all you got. Like I said, you clearly don't believe Zadina is a bust, based on everything you've said. So why are you still trying to keep up the charade?

What are you smoking and where can I get some?  All you've done is spew the same bile you always do.  The player hasn't proven a thing, he's played 28 games as a passenger then got hurt, he's on loan and hurt again.

Zadina hasn't clearly established himself bust yet, my prediction that he will be appropriately labeled as such is right on track.  Lackluster numbers, mounting injuries, on dimensional play, zero concept of defense.  OPEN YOUR EYES and SHUT YOUR MOUTH.

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL Seriously dude, get over yourself. You're not the big brain hockey genius you believe yourself to be. You're a f***ing joke.

Look in a mirror an say that and the world would be a much better place.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, mackel said:

What are you smoking and where can I get some?  All you've done is spew the same bile you always do.  The player hasn't proven a thing, he's played 28 games as a passenger then got hurt, he's on loan and hurt again.

Zadina hasn't clearly established himself bust yet, my prediction that he will be appropriately labeled as such is right on track.  Lackluster numbers, mounting injuries, on dimensional play, zero concept of defense.  OPEN YOUR EYES and SHUT YOUR MOUTH.

LOL lackluster numbers... There aren't many players drafted outside of the top 5, that put up better numbers as a 19/20 year old. 

One dimensional / zero concept of defense... LOL I think you're the one that needs to open your eyes...

10 minutes ago, mackel said:

Look in a mirror an say that and the world would be a much better place.

Yeah, I definitely think I'm a hockey genius for calling you out for labeling an 18 year old, 6th overall pick a bust...

[mackel 681]

16 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

I never claimed to be. I'm just a man with an opinion on a player, arguing against outdated draft day profiles. I'll take your sophomoric response to mean you have nothing of substance in the pipe. Cheers and carry on with Mackel though.

I'm sick of you rehashing the same nonsense...   STOP

Until hockey resumes and I'm further proved right let it ride... 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

"Hey IMHO Zadina isn't that good"
>Krsmith flips out
>Calls everyone dumbasses
>Brings it up in every thread

Classic LGW

Yeah, downplay what you originally said, and what mackel continues to say... overstate my reaction... never mind the names thrown my way and the fact that mackel has brought Zadina up in way more threads than me...

Classic LGW...

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Zadina is busting so hard and you're getting nervous now lol

Not even a little bit. I look forward to whatever alias you're under in a couple years from now to eat crow...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Sounds like last night's ******* debate in here. 

Jesus

Edited September 30, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans

[mackel 681]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, downplay what you originally said, and what mackel continues to say... overstate my reaction... never mind the names thrown my way and the fact that mackel has brought Zadina up in way more threads than me...

Classic LGW...

That's 100% false but I bet you believe it... your narcissism is showing. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, mackel said:

That's 100% false but I bet you believe it... your narcissism is showing. 

LOL anyone here knows how often you brought up "Zadina is a bust" in every thread when we first drafted him.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, CatBoyRossi said:

@BustBoyZagina

As a Mr. T voting socialist, I gave Joe the win. If I'm gonna be voting for reality TV presidents I expect more entertaining performances than that. No Rosie zingers or threatening to put Joe in jail? WTF. I popped popcorn for this. 

Did he look something like this?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[krsmith17 7,191]

33 minutes ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Maybe its only because we've both been here for so long, but when you stoop to LOL in all caps it's basically a dead giveaway to me that your on life support and have nothing left. Am I wrong in this instance?

This instance, and almost every instance.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Then why dont u contribute something of substance other than "youre wrong"? Im genuinely confused. 

I have and we both know it.

I say he has a elite shot, very good passer, great hands, high hockey IQ, tenacious, etc. You accuse me of being too simplistic, and "parroting" Pronman. I give you specific examples from specific games. Nothing.

You say he's "one dimensional". I explain why he's not, and you say "lol what are you talking about?"...

We simply disagree. Get over it. Get over yourself. I'm done with this. I'll let Zadina's game do the talking.

But hey, at least you've backpedaled off your original "Zadina is a bust" comments...

[marcaractac 3,963]

Can you guys make a 'Is Zadina a bust?' thread already? f*** sakes. Would be nice to chat about the upcoming draft here like we're supposed to.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Can you guys make a 'Is Zadina a bust?' thread already? f*** sakes. Would be nice to chat about the upcoming draft here like we're supposed to.

Another thread off topic. Nothing new here.

No one is stopping anyone from talking about the draft though...

Here's something draft related...

https://theathletic.com/2090914/2020/10/01/nhl-mock-draft-2020-corey-pronman-projects-all-seven-rounds/

4. Detroit Red Wings: Cole Perfetti, C, Saginaw-OHL

The only two names I’ve heard recently linked to Detroit by multiple sources are Perfetti and goaltender Yaroslav Askarov. One source made a good point regarding Perfetti, in that so many people seem to think that’s who Detroit is taking that it’s almost suspicious. Ultimately, I have to go with what all my information is telling me, even if my instinct says that Askarov, defenseman Jake Sanderson or forward Lucas Raymond could very well go at this spot.

32: Marat Khusnutdinov, C, SKA-MHL
45: Daemon Hunt, D, Moose Jaw-WHL
55: Emil Andrae, D, HV71-SHL
63: Zayde Wisdom, RW, Kingston-OHL
65: Wyatt Kaiser, D, Andover-US High School
107: Simon Knak, RW, Portland-WHL
125: Hayden Fowler, LW, Erie-OHL
156: Carson Bantle, LW, Madison-USHL
187: Grant Riley, G, Janesville-NAHL

[Akakabuto 1,751]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

One source made a good point regarding Perfetti, in that so many people seem to think that’s who Detroit is taking that it’s almost suspicious.

Maybe just there is a consensus around the league that Perfetti is the fourth best prospect in this draft and thats why everybody are so sure Detroit is picking him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 1, 2020 by Akakabuto

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Another thread off topic. Nothing new here.

No one is stopping anyone from talking about the draft though...

Here's something draft related...

https://theathletic.com/2090914/2020/10/01/nhl-mock-draft-2020-corey-pronman-projects-all-seven-rounds/

4. Detroit Red Wings: Cole Perfetti, C, Saginaw-OHL

The only two names I’ve heard recently linked to Detroit by multiple sources are Perfetti and goaltender Yaroslav Askarov. One source made a good point regarding Perfetti, in that so many people seem to think that’s who Detroit is taking that it’s almost suspicious. Ultimately, I have to go with what all my information is telling me, even if my instinct says that Askarov, defenseman Jake Sanderson or forward Lucas Raymond could very well go at this spot.

32: Marat Khusnutdinov, C, SKA-MHL
45: Daemon Hunt, D, Moose Jaw-WHL
55: Emil Andrae, D, HV71-SHL
63: Zayde Wisdom, RW, Kingston-OHL
65: Wyatt Kaiser, D, Andover-US High School
107: Simon Knak, RW, Portland-WHL
125: Hayden Fowler, LW, Erie-OHL
156: Carson Bantle, LW, Madison-USHL
187: Grant Riley, G, Janesville-NAHL

More unoriginal idiots with the same old recycled cole perfetti to redwings nonsense  .... how about someone go off the board and say yzerman says f everyone im taking the goalie?

same old bs

khusnutdinov is definetly one of my preferred targets at 32 , im also high on niederbach at 45 but im starting to think he might not make it

Edited October 1, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

More unoriginal idiots with the same old recycled cole perfetti to redwings nonsense  .... how about someone go off the board and say yzerman says f everyone im taking the goalie?

same old bs

khusnutdinov is definetly one of my preferred targets at 32 , im also high on niederbach at 45 but im starting to think he might not make it

Did you even read the write up on Perfetti? Apparently Askarov has been linked to Detroit. I think all of these reports need to be taken with a pound of salt though. Yzerman isn't going to let anything leak unless he wants something leaked. And what purpose does it serve the organization to let everyone know what player he's going to select before the draft? None.

No one knew anything about Seider being a potential target until the hours leading up last year's draft. I'm sure you hated the Seider pick as well. What do you think of it today?

Truth is, most of us here know very little about any of these prospects, compared to the pros. I have players I am hoping for, but I'm not going to get too bent out of shape, regardless who we pick.