Would you bring back Babcock?

[Akakabuto 1,805]

10 hours ago, bIueadams said:

The phones. Give them to me. 

And your other phone. 

[bIueadams 776]

5 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

And your other phone. 

*removes tactical ankle phone*

How'd you know about my upskirt phone?

[bIueadams 776]

Long Read: Kindl Discusses His Career (Babs stories included)

Somewhat interesting back story. His mother died when he was young, but already playing hockey at a junior level, and he basically dealt with her death by ignoring it completely and putting all his focus and energy into hockey. He did the same with school, and says he basically received no real education, because he didn't go to school. Just gym and hockey.

On his draft:

Quote

The Red Wings were the only club that I didn't talk to during the physical tests. I later asked general manager Ken Holland about it, and he told me that they didn't need to find out anything from me. They knew exactly what kind of player I was.

Holland and his team never bothered to interview him....

On first meeting the team:

Quote

Shanahan walked around us and introduced himself, shaking hands with all of us. Everyone was thrilled. Only Robin Big Snake, a fighter, told him, "Dude, I know who you are. You don't have to introduce yourself to me."

Robin with the BIG Snake

On his expectations as a young player and Holland's over-ripening:

Quote

That's what Detroit is famous for. They don't rush anything. Although I left disappointed, it was great in Kitchener again. “It'll work out next time,” I thought.

I believed that I would be the new Nick Lidström, that I would gradually take over after him. Accordingly, I thought about my importance to the Red Wings, but so far, at the age of 20, they hadn't given me the slightest chance, which grounded me.

In Grand Rapids, I couldn't even get up from that ground for a long time. I realized how difficult it would be for me to switch to adult hockey. I failed the switch. I failed in this first season, where I barely played compared to what I was used to from juniors. I had the worst plus-minus statistic in the league. Minus thirty-four.

It was so bad that I considered returning to Czech. Me, the hero, drafted in the first round by Detroit. I had always envisioned jumping from the junior league to the NHL and immediately becoming a star. Instead, I had trouble playing for the farm team.

On becoming a defensive player:

Quote

I improved in my second season. I finished minus-14. I felt like I was becoming a different hockey player. As a junior, I used to do whatever I wanted on power plays and just attacked, but Detroit’s strategy was based on something completely different. They wanted me to use my skills, but first they needed to make me into a player who would fit into the team’s defensive concept.

I didn't understand it for a long time, and when the management came to see me, I wanted to show them my individual skills. I thought that I always needed to be on the puck and skate here and there, and that they would like it. But they told me, "No. We know you can do this, and how you shoot and play. But we are interested in how you play without a puck, how you position yourself, how you defend, how you do not let the opponent into the goal crease, and how you do not lose a duel in the corner."

It was hard for me to realize that hockey in the NHL, especially for a defenseman, is not about productivity, but about details. If you don't have them at a certain level, no one will keep you in the league for a long time. Although I played in the AHL All-Star game, it didn't mean I was ready for the Red Wings.

On Babcocks positives:

Quote

We were also coached by Mike Babcock. As a human being, I can think of him whatever I want, but his emphasis on every detail that makes players better is the reason why as a coach he is so valued. Whether we won or lost, the next day, he had prepared a five-minute analysis of things that we should improve upon, and we would continue to focus on those. He had a different preparation for each game; a detailed strategy for every team in the league.

He taught me how to keep my opponent from the front of the goal, how to stop him from going into a corner, and how to move without a puck. I didn't really know any of these things before, and I never needed to.

On Babcocks negatives:

Quote

Even when I was drafted, Babcock asked the scouts what kind of player I was.

"Something like Martin Škoula from Colorado," they said.

"Oh, Jesus," was his reaction.

I wasn't his favorite player from the beginning, and even though Holland liked me, Babcock seemed to constantly test what I could handle and he let me know that he didn’t like me as a player. I couldn’t stand him as a person.

I saw him making jokes with the others, but with me he barely exchanged a few words. If he did, it was to humiliate me. For example, he once put me on the right side of the defense, and I was looking at the lineup in disbelief. He was just passing by and heard me, so he looked at the lineup and said, "Yeah, you're on the right side. You have trouble playing on the left, and I'm making it harder for you, right?"

He seldomly trusted me on the ice. My teammates also wondered what the issue was, because even when I didn't play for a long time, I immediately was among the best when he gave me a chance. Then he let me sit again. Sometimes, I didn’t play a single game for two months, then I jumped in, played well, scored a goal and an assist, for example, and then didn’t play the next game again.

On leaving Detroit:

Quote

I should have left earlier; I know that today -- before I got the label of someone who was always ready to replace someone in the lineup. I let everything go too far, but I still believed that I would be the new Lidström one day; that I would stay in a single organization from the age of 18 and gradually become the defensive star there.

 

If you read the entire thing, In general, Kindl highlights all his shortcomings but then seems to give off the impression that he doesn't understand why he "never got a real shot to play". And that had Detroit or Florida just thrust him into the #1 role he would've been great. I think he might be a Dumbass. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by bIueadams

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

^ Lot's of weird looking quotes here wha?

9 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

If you read the entire thing, In general, Kindl highlights all his shortcomings but then seems to give off the impression that he doesn't understand why he "never got a real shot to play". And that had Detroit or Florida just thrust him into the #1 role he would've been great. I think he might be a Dumbass. 

Yeah I'm with Babcock on this one. 

Jurco and Smith got the same Bab-scythe too.

All this gives me new respect for guys like Hudler. Like how did he even live through Babcock? 

 

[bIueadams 776]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

^ Lot's of weird looking quotes here wha?

Yeah I'm with Babcock on this one. 

Jurco and Smith got the same Bab-scythe too.

All this gives me new respect for guys like Hudler. Like how did he even live through Babcock? 

 

Yeah the formatting on the article fuqqed up my copy paste job.

I'd say because Hudler actually had some talent. Babs can be a bad person all day, but he's not a dumb hockey brain. Even his haters say he's tactically above average. Kindl thought he was being treated unfairly because he thought he was the new Lidstrom and wasn't being respected for it. Babs was "laughing and joking" with other players because those players actually mattered to him. Kindl did not.

I don't mean this as a defense of Babs - but can you imagine being a coach and having to deal with every Kindl, Smith, Jurco, R-slur coming to your team and thinking theyre the next big sheit. In a way you do have to knock them down a peg and bring their expectations back to earth. 

I dont think anyone under Babs didn't get a shot because he didn't like them. They didn't get a shot because they were bad. Look at Nyquist and Franzen - both of whom apparently hated him and he hated them - but he played them - cause they aint sheit like you Kindl. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

9 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Yeah the formatting on the article fuqqed up my copy paste job.

I'd say because Hudler actually had some talent. Babs can be a bad person all day, but he's not a dumb hockey brain. Even his haters say he's tactically above average. Kindl thought he was being treated unfairly because he thought he was the new Lidstrom and wasn't being respected for it. Babs was "laughing and joking" with other players because those players actually mattered to him. Kindl did not.

I don't mean this as a defense of Babs - but can you imagine being a coach and having to deal with every Kindl, Smith, Jurco, R-slur coming to your team and thinking theyre the next big sheit. In a way you do have to knock them down a peg and bring their expectations back to earth. 

I dont think anyone under Babs didn't get a shot because he didn't like them. They didn't get a shot because they were bad. Look at Nyquist and Franzen - both of whom apparently hated him and he hated them - but he played them - cause they aint sheit like you Kindl. 

I bet Babcock had a good time scrolling through Hudler's summer vacation photos on his 1st generation iPhone. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:18 AM, kipwinger said:

I was a big Kindl guy

He was ok, i guess

[Axl Foley 298]

Kindl was delusional about how good he actually was.

[bIueadams 776]

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Pretty good impression ^^

Here's the real version

PSYCHO

Edited September 28, 2023 by The 91 of Ryans

[bIueadams 776]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Pretty good impression ^^

Here's the real version

PSYCHO

What was psycho about it? Honestly asking. I don't see anything alarming, but maybe I have a thick skin.

More than a few of you will disagree with me, but I maintain, Mike Babcock is probably one of the best hockey coaches of this generation. And he's also probably one of the meanest/toxic/cruelest. You could probably say the same thing about Bowman - but nobody was sensitive to it back then like they are now. 

IMO Babcock is the coach version of Holland. Give Holland superstars and he will successfully manage a team for years. Take them away and he drowns. Give Babcock Datsyuks, Zbergs, and Lidstroms, and he will thrive. Give him Franzens, Nyquists, Marners, and Fantillis, and he drowns. It's common knowledge at this point that he was hard on young players and treated vets with respect. Honestly he was built for the late Wings and no one else. Maybe last years Bruins???

Edited September 28, 2023 by bIueadams

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

13 hours ago, bIueadams said:

What was psycho about it? Honestly asking. I don't see anything alarming, but maybe I have a thick skin.

More than a few of you will disagree with me, but I maintain, Mike Babcock is probably one of the best hockey coaches of this generation. And he's also probably one of the meanest/toxic/cruelest. You could probably say the same thing about Bowman - but nobody was sensitive to it back then like they are now. 

IMO Babcock is the coach version of Holland. Give Holland superstars and he will successfully manage a team for years. Take them away and he drowns. Give Babcock Datsyuks, Zbergs, and Lidstroms, and he will thrive. Give him Franzens, Nyquists, Marners, and Fantillis, and he drowns. It's common knowledge at this point that he was hard on young players and treated vets with respect. Honestly he was built for the late Wings and no one else. Maybe last years Bruins???

I'm mostly just vibing I guess but he just seems tone deaf. Equating being a constant prik across three NHL organizations to saying a whoopsie to your wife lol 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 9/28/2023 at 12:04 PM, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'm mostly just vibing I guess but he just seems tone deaf. Equating being a constant prik across three NHL organizations to saying a whoopsie to your wife lol 

 

good point.  it's known that Babcock is a total jerk.  

[kliq 3,763]

On 9/28/2023 at 1:32 AM, bIueadams said:

What was psycho about it? Honestly asking. I don't see anything alarming, but maybe I have a thick skin.

More than a few of you will disagree with me, but I maintain, Mike Babcock is probably one of the best hockey coaches of this generation. And he's also probably one of the meanest/toxic/cruelest. You could probably say the same thing about Bowman - but nobody was sensitive to it back then like they are now. 

IMO Babcock is the coach version of Holland. Give Holland superstars and he will successfully manage a team for years. Take them away and he drowns. Give Babcock Datsyuks, Zbergs, and Lidstroms, and he will thrive. Give him Franzens, Nyquists, Marners, and Fantillis, and he drowns. It's common knowledge at this point that he was hard on young players and treated vets with respect. Honestly he was built for the late Wings and no one else. Maybe last years Bruins???

Very fair point, especially based on Det & TO. Just to play devils advocate, he did take the 03 Ducks within 1 game of winning a cup with what I believe was a very young team, Oates and Stumpy being the exceptions. 

[bIueadams 776]

10 minutes ago, kliq said:

Very fair point, especially based on Det & TO. Just to play devils advocate, he did take the 03 Ducks within 1 game of winning a cup with what I believe was a very young team, Oates and Stumpy being the exceptions. 

Thank you, I'm locked in here with a buncha insane individuals. I tell them Seider rules and Zadina sucks and that takes them like 3+ years to recognize these obvious facts. They're now jousting at me again because Eddogg sucks - learning absolutely nothing.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Just now, bIueadams said:

Thank you, I'm locked in here with a buncha insane individuals. I tell them Seider rules and Zadina sucks and that takes them like 3+ years to recognize these obvious facts. They're now jousting at me again because Eddogg sucks - learning absolutely nothing.

on JoMomma's clit maybe

[bIueadams 776]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

on JoMomma's clit maybe

I will enjoy this

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Just now, bIueadams said:

I will enjoy this

said JoMomma

[bIueadams 776]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

said JoMomma

damn u got me agin

[Jimmybigrigs69 208]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5530122/2024/05/31/no-one-is-spared-tracing-mike-babcocks-imperious-nhl-coaching-career/

Pretty good read on Babs antics

Nothing new that you wouldn't expect... Telling guys to not travel with the team bc they are working on trading them, then telling the media that the player personally chose not to travel. Telling 4th liners to cut superstars in drills to get everyone mad at each other. Telling guys to show up to his office, then refusing them. Calling Franzen a fat pig (lol). Etc etc. All the usual power/manipulation stuff. 

The part I found interesting is that hes apparently still so well connected and respected by the upper echelons of the hockey world, that players EVEN NOW wont go on record about him, for fear of backlash from the powers that be. And Babcock refused to comment on if hes been approached about jobs...

Is Babs the evil puppeter of hockey? The Jeffrey Epstein of the NHL?

[Scott R Lucidi 605]

1 hour ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5530122/2024/05/31/no-one-is-spared-tracing-mike-babcocks-imperious-nhl-coaching-career/

Pretty good read on Babs antics

Nothing new that you wouldn't expect... Telling guys to not travel with the team bc they are working on trading them, then telling the media that the player personally chose not to travel. Telling 4th liners to cut superstars in drills to get everyone mad at each other. Telling guys to show up to his office, then refusing them. Calling Franzen a fat pig (lol). Etc etc. All the usual power/manipulation stuff. 

The part I found interesting is that hes apparently still so well connected and respected by the upper echelons of the hockey world, that players EVEN NOW wont go on record about him, for fear of backlash from the powers that be. And Babcock refused to comment on if hes been approached about jobs...

Is Babs the evil puppeter of hockey? The Jeffrey Epstein of the NHL?

He's the Harvey Weinstein of hockey.  The guy needs to get wrecked, but they just won't do it.  Everybody wants him to just go away, but he won't.  Personally, I think it's RETARDED to give him any press.  It would be different if the Zetterbergs, Datsyuks, and Lidstroms of the hockey world were knocking Mike Babcock.  But it's always the fringe players that do it.  And you know that the fringe players are pissed off at the world because they know they haven't worked hard enough on their fitness to outplay the guys coming up that are grinding constantly to get their chance.  So they are looking to blow anything out of proportion to make an excuse for themselves.  Zetterberg was the guy playing on pain pills through a debilitating back injury and working out all summer to strengthen his back.  Datsyuk was the guy spending 4 hours in the gym every day.  Lidstrom was the guy speding 4 hours in the gym every day and playing through a pulled groin in the Stanley Cup Finals.  Babcock never had one thing negative to say about these guys.  They were professionals, and he never said anything about guys that showed up and went balls out.  It was always the clown show players that Babcock treated poorly.  Sounds like I'm making excuses for a guy that broke boundaries he shouldn't have, but I DO see the old school side of things.  I can see why a 76 year old owner with an 800 million dollar hockey team would want a guy that didn't tolerate any bullshet running things.  You get nice guy Jeff, nice guy Lalonde, nice guy Dave Lewis, nice guy etc etc etc and what does it get you?  A whole bunch of losing seasons.  Babcock is like Voldemort now, though.  If people keep talking about him, he's stick around.  If people just leave him in the past, he'll just be a part of the past.

[Jimmybigrigs69 208]

2 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

He's the Harvey Weinstein of hockey.  The guy needs to get wrecked, but they just won't do it.  Everybody wants him to just go away, but he won't.  Personally, I think it's RETARDED to give him any press.  It would be different if the Zetterbergs, Datsyuks, and Lidstroms of the hockey world were knocking Mike Babcock.  But it's always the fringe players that do it.  And you know that the fringe players are pissed off at the world because they know they haven't worked hard enough on their fitness to outplay the guys coming up that are grinding constantly to get their chance.  So they are looking to blow anything out of proportion to make an excuse for themselves.  Zetterberg was the guy playing on pain pills through a debilitating back injury and working out all summer to strengthen his back.  Datsyuk was the guy spending 4 hours in the gym every day.  Lidstrom was the guy speding 4 hours in the gym every day and playing through a pulled groin in the Stanley Cup Finals.  Babcock never had one thing negative to say about these guys.  They were professionals, and he never said anything about guys that showed up and went balls out.  It was always the clown show players that Babcock treated poorly.  Sounds like I'm making excuses for a guy that broke boundaries he shouldn't have, but I DO see the old school side of things.  I can see why a 76 year old owner with an 800 million dollar hockey team would want a guy that didn't tolerate any bullshet running things.  You get nice guy Jeff, nice guy Lalonde, nice guy Dave Lewis, nice guy etc etc etc and what does it get you?  A whole bunch of losing seasons.  Babcock is like Voldemort now, though.  If people keep talking about him, he's stick around.  If people just leave him in the past, he'll just be a part of the past.

All fringe players except Marner.

But Marners reaction to the whole work ethic thing was to literally cry... making me kind of understand why Babs was picking on him. 

Babs wanted Marner to grow some balls and refuse to make the list, or at least get angry when Babs embarrassed him with it. But Marner reacted by tearing up like a child. No wonder Babs didnt like him...

Furthermore, Babs was a big proponent of the "We dont draft boys, we draft men" schtick in Toronto. So its no wonder he wasnt happy about drafting Marner, who proved to be exactly the crybaby that Babs foresaw. 

At the end of the day, Babs is a well seasoned coach, and has a degree in sports psychology. He doesnt do these things for no reason, or just to be mean. Fear may not be nice, but it is a motivator. 

Edited June 3 by Jimmybigrigs69

[Scott R Lucidi 605]

26 minutes ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

All fringe players except Marner.

But Marners reaction to the whole work ethic thing was to literally cry... making me kind of understand why Babs was picking on him. 

Babs wanted Marner to grow some balls and refuse to make the list, or at least get angry when Babs embarrassed him with it. But Marner reacted by tearing up like a child. No wonder Babs didnt like him...

Furthermore, Babs was a big proponent of the "We dont draft boys, we draft men" schtick in Toronto. So its no wonder he wasnt happy about drafting Marner, who proved to be exactly the crybaby that Babs foresaw. 

At the end of the day, Babs is a well seasoned coach, and has a degree in sports psychology. He doesnt do these things for no reason, or just to be mean. Fear may not be nice, but it is a motivator. 

Yah, Matthews and Marner aren't tough.  They weren't tough, aren't tough, and aren't willing to get tough.  No coach is going to go anywhere with those guys ripping the team off for regular season stardom and playoff puss.  I can see why Babcock started playing headgames with Marner.  He's a total ******.

[Jimmybigrigs69 208]

4 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Yah, Matthews and Marner aren't tough.  They weren't tough, aren't tough, and aren't willing to get tough.  No coach is going to go anywhere with those guys ripping the team off for regular season stardom and playoff puss.  I can see why Babcock started playing headgames with Marner.  He's a total ******.

Look at Kadri. Dogged on by Babs, but adapted, grew, evolved into a much a better hockey player, and ended up becoming arguably Babs favorite center to deploy in Toronto. 

He holds no ill will towards Babs and credits him for helping him become the better player he is today. 

That's a man. That's a pro. 

Marner is a child that still lets his daddy run his fiances, and cries and tattles at the first sign of adversity. And look what good its done him... probably getting traded this offseason #packyours***

Franzen had too many concussions, and already had, or developed mental health issues. Babs apologized after the fact. 

And I would argue the mind games worked on Commodore. He became INSANELY motivated and energized by his hatred for Babs.

[Scott R Lucidi 605]

6 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Look at Kadri. Dogged on by Babs, but adapted, grew, evolved into a much a better hockey player, and ended up becoming arguably Babs favorite center to deploy in Toronto. 

He holds no ill will towards Babs and credits him for helping him become the better player he is today. 

That's a man. That's a pro. 

Marner is a child that still lets his daddy run his fiances, and cries and tattles at the first sign of adversity. And look what good its done him... probably getting traded this offseason #packyours***

Franzen had too many concussions, and already had, or developed mental health issues. Babs apologized after the fact. 

And I would argue the mind games worked on Commodore. He became INSANELY motivated and energized by his hatred for Babs.

Yup.  We should take him back.  I changed my mind.  I hate all the players that ratted on Babs, Johan included.  Wahhhhh.