2020 Free Agency

[AtlantaHotWings 984]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I haven't been this amped for Red Wings hockey in a long time. Not that I think this team is going to be particularly good this season, but what a turnaround, at least on paper... Phenomenal offseason, and he still may not be done. I don't think we can really add anything else, but maybe addition by subtraction (Nielsen / Filppula), and / or a trade to acquire more assets (Fleury)...

I will take competitive this year vs losing ...not expecting the cup or anything just less painful hockey to watch

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

29 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I was more so referring to the second part of the tweet, not the part about what this means for Pearson, Smith and Svechnikov. We will need to make room for Svech though, or risk losing him for nothing.

I agree. Yzerman has it in him to waive these guys, if there are other players outperforming them. He'll do whatever is best for the team.

I think Helm is worth much more than a 5th or 6th round pick. 

Unless it's a three way deal, eating salary on Johnson or Fleury, I don't think Yzerman will be bringing in any more players via trade or free agency.

See alot of guys going around for dirt cheap , dont think helm fetches more than a 4th

i think yzerman would 100% take on johnson , all depends what they attach .... id hope we get in on fleury at eat 7mill salary and fetch a 1st +

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, it's not until year four (2023-24) that it would be "hurting" us, and even then it's sub $2M, and just a hair over $1M in each of the next two years (2024-25 / 2025-26)... Hardly crippling, especially with so much of our core still on ELC's / bridge deals...

But if we also eat 50% pff fleury all of a sudden its like 12 mill dead cap for two seasons , again we can do it with free agency guys now signing dirt cheap and the cheap rookies we’ll be addinf but then if we want to eat more dead weight next season for a team we’ll be looking at like -16 mill  ... i know lots of if’s , id just bury him a yr then buy him out

Edited October 11, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I'm happy with Greiss as well. Hopefully he takes firm grip on the starting job so they can drop Bernier after this season and get the goalie cap hit down some. Gives Seider another German dude to chill with, too.

$6.6M is very reasonable to spend on two quality goaltenders. I'm not sure, but I would have to think that's one of the cheaper, and better bang for your buck, duos in the league.

15 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

I will take competitive this year vs losing ...not expecting the cup or anything just less painful hockey to watch

To be fair, there will still be quite a bit of losing... Just not near as much as last season... lol

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

See alot of guys going around for dirt cheap , dont think helm fetches more than a 4th

I think a 3rd round pick would be a reasonable expectation for Helm, especially if we were willing to retain salary. You're allowed up to three retained salary contracts, worth a shade over $12M. I'd use $1.925 of that on Helm's contract.

22 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

i think yzerman would 100% take on johnson , all depends what they attach .... id hope we get in on fleury at eat 7mill salary and fetch a 1st +

Taking on Johnson may be getting a little too over crowded for this season. I'd look at this or another contract next offseason, when a few more contracts fall off the books. We're already going to have a glut of draft picks coming our way. I'd hold off on this one.

But yeah, I'd definitely still try to swing the potential three-way trade involving Fleury...

26 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

But if we also eat 50% pff fleury all of a sudden its like 12 mill dead cap for two seasons , again we can do it with free agency guys now signing dirt cheap and the cheap rookies we’ll be addinf but then if we want to eat more dead weight next season for a team we’ll be looking at like -16 mill  ... i know lots of if’s , id just bury him a yr then buy him out

Good point. I guess a potential buyout could depend on where things stand with Fleury and Vegas...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

This is the kind of signing I was expecting. Seems that the roster is a little crowded now tho.

[Akakabuto 1,749]

32 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

But if we also eat 50% pff fleury all of a sudden its like 12 mill dead cap for two seasons

More like 10 milion, isn't it? And we got room this year and we got more cap falling off next offseason in Staal, Filppula and Gagner. If there ever was a time to do this it is now.

41 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, it's not until year four (2023-24) that it would be "hurting" us, and even then it's sub $2M, and just a hair over $1M in each of the next two years (2024-25 / 2025-26)... Hardly crippling, especially with so much of our core still on ELC's / bridge deals...

So basically the same cost we have been carrying from the Weiss buyout the last 5 years.

[ely s 457]

There are still quite a few good players available in Hall, Hoffman, Dadanov, Haula, Toffoli, Duclair among others upfront and in Vatanen, Pietrangelo, Ceci, etc at the back end. A lot of cap space needed. This is probably the worst year to become free agent...

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, ely s said:

There are still quite a few good players available in Hall, Hoffman, Dadanov, Haula, Toffoli, Duclair among others upfront and in Vatanen, Pietrangelo, Ceci, etc at the back end. A lot of cap space needed. This is probably the worst year to become free agent...

Yup. Whichever teams sign these players, namely Hall and Pietrangelo, will need to shed cap space.

Enter Yzerman.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I dont know what that guys going on about , i liked pearson for yrs but i think he easily spends next season down as well as smith .. at least one more year or maybe see some games due to injuries or moves 

i can 100% see erne,filppula,nielsen being waived so we dont have much to worry about atm . Maybe yzerman finds a taker for helm for a 5-6th pick and moves him

we got plenty of time to worry about this stuff , we might even add johnson if tampa pays up

No way Nielsen or Filppula get waived over Gagner. Unless they actually think someone might take them, which wont happen.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

It's not even hurting us when you think about it. We are still saving cap space.

Yes, but it's saving cap space for the first 2 seasons that we dont need the cap relief. It could potentially cause problems in years 3 and 4, when we'll be more competitive and having our core players up for contracts.

Which is why I wouldnt do it. If we need the roster spot, put Nielsen on waivers (he'd clear) then send him down. It would only save minimal cap space, but at least its only for 2 more years.

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No way Nielsen or Filppula get waived over Gagner. Unless they actually think someone might take them, which wont happen.

Gagner is better at this point in their respective careers. He was just signed. He is the coveted right-handed shot, that Yzerman keeps saying he wants more of in the lineup. So yes, there is a way one or both of Nielsen or Filppula get waived over Gagner.

[xault 272]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This is the kind of signing I was expecting. Seems that the roster is a little crowded now tho.

For a Draft pick.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yes, but it's saving cap space for the first 2 seasons that we dont need the cap relief. It could potentially cause problems in years 3 and 4, when we'll be more competitive and having our core players up for contracts.

$600K isn't going to make or break our cap in years 3 and 4.

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Which is why I wouldnt do it. If we need the roster spot, put Nielsen on waivers (he'd clear) then send him down. It would only save minimal cap space, but at least its only for 2 more years.

You literally just said that there's no way Nielsen gets waived.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

$600K isn't going to make or break our cap in years 3 and 4.

You literally just said that there's no way Nielsen gets waived.

 

22 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No way Nielsen or Filppula get waived OVER Gagner. Unless they actually think someone might take them, which wont happen.

I was also referring to clearing up roster space for another forward. If they are considering a buyout, I would rather send him down. I don't think either is happening.

Also, dont forget there is still Abby's buyout cap hit too. Why keep adding to it unnecessarily?

Edited October 11, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Gagner is better at this point in their respective careers. He was just signed. He is the coveted right-handed shot, that Yzerman keeps saying he wants more of in the lineup. So yes, there is a way one or both of Nielsen or Filppula get waived over Gagner.

Disagree. Never wanted Filppula back, so whatever. But Gagner is not better than Nielsen right now. If you're comparing productivity per dollar, yes. Gagner is barely over league minimum and Nielsen is overpaid. But overall? I choose Nielsen over Gagner everytime if its the same money.

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

$6.6M is very reasonable to spend on two quality goaltenders. I'm not sure, but I would have to think that's one of the cheaper, and better bang for your buck, duos in the league.

 

Yeah, nothing wrong with it. I guess if one guy establishes himself as your clear no 1, you'll end up paying him more anyways.

[Akakabuto 1,749]

28 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was also referring to clearing up roster space for another forward. If they are considering a buyout, I would rather send him down. I don't think either is happening.

Also, dont forget there is still Abby's buyout cap hit too. Why keep adding to it unnecessarily?

Sure, we shouldn't do this if it's not necessary. My point was if there was a need we are in a pretty unique position to do this without it really doing us any harm.

Frans Nielsen on the roster or waived is basically 4.5 million of dead cap space anyways.

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

38 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

I was also referring to clearing up roster space for another forward. If they are considering a buyout, I would rather send him down. I don't think either is happening.

Also, dont forget there is still Abby's buyout cap hit too. Why keep adding to it unnecessarily?

It's definitely a possibility. One that I'm sure Yzerman and his staff are heavily considering.

You add to it, because both players are basically useless, especially with all of the upgrades via free agency over the past couple days. You save cap space and real dollars over the next few seasons, to make more moves to acquire assets, and have minimal penalty in years 4, 5, and 6 (including both buyouts). It's all been discussed above.

[krsmith17 7,191]

36 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Disagree. Never wanted Filppula back, so whatever. But Gagner is not better than Nielsen right now. If you're comparing productivity per dollar, yes. Gagner is barely over league minimum and Nielsen is overpaid. But overall? I choose Nielsen over Gagner everytime if its the same money.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're alone on that assessment. Gagner is a better overall player than Nielsen, he brings a much needed dimension (right-handed shot), that few others bring, he's five years younger, about $4M cheaper... I'm honestly struggling to find one reason you'd prefer Nielsen over Gagner... Shootouts? That's about it, and even then, not that either would be in my top five go-to in the shootout, but I'd throw Gagner out there before Nielsen... Nielsen flat out sucks. One of the worst players in the league, on one of the worst contracts in the league...

[Dabura 12,207]

I like the signings Yzerman has made. We might actually win a couple games next season.

[Akakabuto 1,749]

5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I like the signings Yzerman has made. We might actually win a couple games next season.

Me too. Nothing mindblowing but all solid moves that makes sense for us in the longterm and makes this team deeper today.

I have moderate expectations for next season. I don’t expect a big jump in the standings but it looks like we can be atleast competitive every night.

Someone elsewhere pointed out that a reccuring theme with these additions was locker room presence and character. Makes one think that maybe that was a problem last year that Yzerman felt needed to be adressed. Not necessarily bad character but lack there of. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Me too. Nothing mindblowing but all solid moves that makes sense for us in the longterm and makes this team deeper today.

I have moderate expectations for next season. I don’t expect a big jump in the standings but it looks like we can be atleast competitive every night.

I don't expect a big jump in the standings, but I do expect a significant jump in overall points. It won't be another 17 win season, and I wouldn't even be surprised if we double that, or at least come close... which would still make us a bottom 5 team...

[krsmith17 7,191]

 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I think a 3rd round pick would be a reasonable expectation for Helm, especially if we were willing to retain salary. You're allowed up to three retained salary contracts, worth a shade over $12M. I'd use $1.925 of that on Helm's contract.

Taking on Johnson may be getting a little too over crowded for this season. I'd look at this or another contract next offseason, when a few more contracts fall off the books. We're already going to have a glut of draft picks coming our way. I'd hold off on this one.

But yeah, I'd definitely still try to swing the potential three-way trade involving Fleury...

Good point. I guess a potential buyout could depend on where things stand with Fleury and Vegas...

Hope your right , just cant see us getting that good a return for helm atm

 

if yzerman gets a 1st++ for johnson he’ll add him on and sadly probably deal svechnikov if he has to , i cant see any way he wont take on extra assets if he can when we have alot of guys on one year deals and would be much easier to get rid of 

i dont know wtf is going on with vegas but apparently they’re gonna trade schmidt now after getting pietrangelo , guessing their reluctant to pay the high price teams are asking for fleury .... thatll be an awkward season

seen on twitter yzerman asked for a 1st and glass , love stevie and i know you gotta shoot for the stars but come on lol ... id gladly take say a 2021 1st and 2022 2nd to flip him ... f*** id tell them send me the 1st and we’ll flip him for more assets , your reward is freeing salary

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This is the kind of signing I was expecting. Seems that the roster is a little crowded now tho.

I think if he can keep adding he would

outside hronek our defensive is atrocious, none of them can contribute any offense

someone like vince dunn caught my eye, stl is stacked and he’d get claimed by seattle .... bean as well , fabbro ... a few nice options to be had if we wanted to jump in

3 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

More like 10 milion, isn't it? And we got room this year and we got more cap falling off next offseason in Staal, Filppula and Gagner. If there ever was a time to do this it is now.

So basically the same cost we have been carrying from the Weiss buyout the last 5 years.

Ya now is the time do it especially with cheap rookie contracts and you see whats going on with free agency , next two yrs at least wed get decent guys for 2-3 mill per so cap wouldnt be an easy ... its still 10-15 wasted space for two yrs if we have abdelkader/nielsen + fleury at 50% and whomever else we decide to jump on