BLASHILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[bIueadams 776]

16 minutes ago, ely s said:

Get over it, we "lost" a replacable player, not more

You wanted evidence that Blash mishandles personnel. I've given it to you.

Good to know mediocre to bad coaching is something we should just "get over"

 

7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Moose, Veleno, Fabbri, Namestnikov, Berggren, and possibly Neiderbach, Soderblom, and even Nilsson, made Svech expendable. How many 3rd liners does a team need?

And yet Rowney, Gagner, Stephens, and Smith are on the team

Edited November 18, 2021 by bIueadams

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 minute ago, bIueadams said:

You wanted evidence that Blash mishandles personnel. I've given it to you.

Good to know mediocre to bad coaching is something we should just "get over"

 

And yet Rowney, Gagner, Stephens, and Smith are on the team

For varying reasons, yes.

Gagner was a Glenny replacement. Is Svech a RH center who can take faceoffs? Nope.

I never agreed with the Rowney signing.

Stephens was brought in as a depth, defensive center. Is that Svech's game? No.

Smith was supposed to be a physical presence who would drop the gloves. Not a role for Svech to play.

Literally none of these guys has anything to do with Svech being let go. They all have completely different roles. All Svech would have had to do was beat out one of Ras, Fabbri, Namestnikov, Erne, or Veleno for a job. He couldn't. That's why he's gone.

Not Blashill's fault.

[bIueadams 776]

56 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Gagner was a Glenny replacement. Is Svech a RH center who can take faceoffs? Nope.

Now you're just manufacturing BS. Gagner plays wing most nights and hardly ever takes faceoffs. He only takes them when our starting center is thrown out of the dot. If anyone was Glendening's replacement it was Rasmussen. Ras takes by far more draws than anyone and actually plays center in a defensive role. Exactly why Glendog and Ras were training partners last year.

It's pointless to go back and forth with you if you're just gonna make random stuff up.

56 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I never agreed with the Rowney signing.

I don't really care about your personal feelings on the Rowney signing. He's here. We replaced Svech with a much worse older player for more money. I don't blame Yzerman for that. Yzerman's not gonna re-sign a player his coach refuses to use. But I also highly doubt Svech was willing to re-sign here after that seasons usage.

56 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Stephens was brought in as a depth, defensive center. Is that Svech's game? No.

Sure, but his presence makes guys like Gagner and Rowney completely unneeded on the wings.

56 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Smith was supposed to be a physical presence who would drop the gloves. Not a role for Svech to play.

And yet Smith hasn't done those things and is awful. Another example of one of Blashill's prospects not performing the way they should. Even stylistically.

56 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Literally none of these guys has anything to do with Svech being let go. They all have completely different roles. All Svech would have had to do was beat out one of Ras, Fabbri, Namestnikov, Erne, or Veleno for a job. He couldn't. That's why he's gone.

Sure it did. Yzerman had his choice at the end of the year on which players he wanted to re-sign. He opted to fill out his bottom 6 with Gagner + Smith and an addition of Rowney instead of Svech. At this point I would prefer to have 25 yr old Svech bounces around our bottom 6 wings than any of those 3.

Edited November 18, 2021 by bIueadams

[ely s 457]

Gagner was a bit of a Glendening replacement, right handed shot, able to play center, good defensively, good on the pk and veteran presence, non of these traits are displayed by Svech. You can argue we could have kept Svech instead of signing Rowney but there might be reasons we don´t know of that lead to what happened. And do you really want to make us believe that we would be any better with Svech?

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

28 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Now you're just manufacturing BS. Gagner plays wing most nights and hardly ever takes faceoffs. He only takes them when our starting center is thrown out of the dot. If anyone was Glendening's replacement it was Rasmussen. Ras takes by far more draws than anyone and actually plays center in a defensive role. Exactly why Glendog and Ras were training partners last year.

It's pointless to go back and forth with you if you're just gonna make random stuff up.

I don't really care about your personal feelings on the Rowney signing. He's here. We replaced Svech with a much worse older player for more money. I don't blame Yzerman for that. Yzerman's not gonna re-sign a player his coach refuses to use. But I also highly doubt Svech was willing to re-sign here after that seasons usage.

Sure, but his presence makes guys like Gagner and Rowney completely unneeded on the wings.

And yet Smith hasn't done those things and is awful. Another example of one of Blashill's prospects not performing the way they should. Even stylistically.

Sure it did. Yzerman had his choice at the end of the year on which players he wanted to re-sign. He opted to fill out his bottom 6 with Gagner + Smith and an addition of Rowney instead of Svech. At this point I would prefer to have 25 yr old Svech bounces around our bottom 6 wings than any of those 3.

Again. Different players. Different roles.

[bIueadams 776]

10 minutes ago, ely s said:

Gagner was a bit of a Glendening replacement, right handed shot, able to play center, good defensively, good on the pk and veteran presence, non of these traits are displayed by Svech. You can argue we could have kept Svech instead of signing Rowney but there might be reasons we don´t know of that lead to what happened. And do you really want to make us believe that we would be any better with Svech?

 

Christ. Gagner is NOT a centermen. Hasn't been since 2015.

5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Again. Different players. Different roles.

So you're argument is: Even if Blash had afforded Svech the games and icetime he needed last season, and the player had found his footing as he has with the Jets.... there was no room to re-sign him because Gagner, Rowney, and Smith fill other essential roles? Is this correct?

[ely s 457]

1 minute ago, bIueadams said:

Christ. Gagner is NOT a centermen. Hasn't been since 2015.

I didn´t say Gagner is a center, I said "able to play", if you feel any better he´s a rh Helm replacement.

[bIueadams 776]

1 minute ago, ely s said:

I didn´t say Gagner is a center, I said "able to play", if you feel any better he´s a rh Helm replacement.

Svech couldn't replace Helm?

It's not like we have a need for centers on this team. We just have a need for quality ones. Gagner isn't a quality center.

1. Larkin
2. Suter
3. Rasmussen
4. Veleno
5. Stephens

Non-centers who can take draws:

1. Fabbri
2. Namestnikov
3. Erne
4. Gagner
5. Rowney

Gagner and Rowney aren't essential here.

[ely s 457]

Just now, bIueadams said:

Svech couldn't replace Helm?

It's not like we have a need for centers on this team. We just have a need for quality ones. Gagner isn't a quality center.

1. Larkin
2. Suter
3. Rasmussen
4. Veleno
5. Stephens

Non-centers who can take draws:

1. Fabbri
2. Namestnikov
3. Erne
4. Gagner
5. Rowney

Gagner and Rowney aren't essential here.

obviously not

Svech is not good defensively, so he can´t replace a Helm or Gagner and he´s not good offensively, so he couldn´t find a place on the second line.

And he´s gone, which is the most important thing. If you want to discuss the qualities of Svech and share your thoughts on him with people who are interested visit a Jets board.

although it me be a good idea if you tell us why exactly we should have kept him and what his strenghts are, because I didn´t see anything worth keeping.

[bIueadams 776]

1 hour ago, ely s said:

obviously not

Svech is not good defensively, so he can´t replace a Helm or Gagner and he´s not good offensively, so he couldn´t find a place on the second line.

We don't need more PKers. We have Ras, Stephens, and Namestnikov permanently there. Suter, Bertuzzi, Erne, and Rowney step in when needed. Veleno and Smith could probably use some reps on the PK too. Both should be cutting their teeth in roles like that. Gagner is not some defensive juggernaut we can't live without.

And why is Svechnikov 2nd line or bust? He's playing on the Jets 3rd line.

1 hour ago, ely s said:

although it me be a good idea if you tell us why exactly we should have kept him and what his strenghts are, because I didn´t see anything worth keeping.

Gee, I wonder why we didn't see anything.... it's almost like Jeff played AHLers over him, and then when he did play him gave him 13th forward minutes. Ya know, the point I'm leveraging Svech to make?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Does Yzerman know about any of this Svechnikov stuff? I can’t believe Blashill was given another contract tbh

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Christ. Gagner is NOT a centermen. Hasn't been since 2015.

So you're argument is: Even if Blash had afforded Svech the games and icetime he needed last season, and the player had found his footing as he has with the Jets.... there was no room to re-sign him because Gagner, Rowney, and Smith fill other essential roles? Is this correct?

If you don't understand the need to sign players that fill roles that Svech does not, I cant help you.

If you don't understand how having a RH to take faceoffs can be an asset, I can't help you.

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Does Yzerman know about any of this Svechnikov stuff? I can’t believe Blashill was given another contract tbh

Blashill is an awful HC and won't be around when the team is competitive again. What he is not is a prospect killer.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

10 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you don't understand the need to sign players that fill roles that Svech does not, I cant help you.

If you don't understand how having a RH to take faceoffs can be an asset, I can't help you.

Blashill is an awful HC and won't be around when the team is competitive again. What he is not is a prospect killer.

Does Yzerman know about any of this Blashill being an awful HC stuff? I can’t believe Blashill was given another contract tbh

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

11 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Does Yzerman know about any of this Blashill being an awful HC stuff? I can’t believe Blashill was given another contract tbh

He is a "placeholder". If he is a good HC, SY will keep him on after the the rebuild is done. I doubt that happens.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Yawn, this is boring. You all suck at debating. Just reject his premise (that the handling of Svech is indicative of Blashill’s quality as a coach) and then point out the numerous prospects that faired exactly the same under other coaches as they did under Blash and the numerous prospects that have flourished under Blash. All great coaches let one slip between the cracks now and again, Svech is at best and outlier and at worse a Martin Frk, either way he’s not a benchmark for anything.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Yawn, this is boring. You all suck at debating. Just reject his premise (that the handling of Svech is indicative of Blashill’s quality as a coach) and then point out the numerous prospects that faired exactly the same under other coaches as they did under Blash and the numerous prospects that have flourished under Blash. All great coaches let one slip between the cracks now and again, Svech is at best and outlier and at worse a Martin Frk, either way he’s not a benchmark for anything.

Well. I was barely trying 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Yawn, this is boring. You all suck at debating. Just reject his premise (that the handling of Svech is indicative of Blashill’s quality as a coach) and then point out the numerous prospects that faired exactly the same under other coaches as they did under Blash and the numerous prospects that have flourished under Blash. All great coaches let one slip between the cracks now and again, Svech is at best and outlier and at worse a Martin Frk, either way he’s not a benchmark for anything.

What else is there to do?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

10 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

What else is there to do?

good point!  20 years of this now.  Svech = Average isnt new.

[bIueadams 776]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you don't understand the need to sign players that fill roles that Svech does not, I cant help you.

I do. We have plenty of PKers with or without Gagner. We have plenty of centers with or without Gagner. Gagner does not fill an essential role on this team. He is a player we can certainly live without.

Rowney adds nothing to this team at the moment and fills no roles besides warm body. Certainly a player we can live without.

Smith is not the heavy player he was marketed as and fills no roles on the team besides warm body. Certainly a player we can live without. Blash doing a poor job molding him into the heavy player we need to be btw...

Svech at least adds depth scoring and can - as he's proven with the Jets - step into a top6 when needed and meaningfully contribute. Just seems like Blash (wrongfully) never gave him a chance.

To continue, I would have also much rather added Bobby Ryan to the roster than Gagner or Rowney.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Fabbri - Suter - Zadina
Svechnikov - Namestnikov - Ryan
Erne - Stephens - Rasmussen
Smith

That is such a better lineup. Blash F'ed up never giving Svech a chance, and Yzerman F'ed up signing too many losers like Gagner and Rowney early on and then had no room for Ryan.

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you don't understand how having a RH to take faceoffs can be an asset, I can't help you.

The Red Wings have taken 967 faceoffs this season. Gagner has taken 45 of those. Less than 5% of the teams faceoffs. His faceoff abilities are not an asset to this team. Again, you're manufacturing BS here. Unless you wanna change ur tune and hop on the trash the blash wagon for not using this RH faceoff dynamo more in the dot?

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by bIueadams

[bIueadams 776]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Yawn, this is boring. You all suck at debating. Just reject his premise (that the handling of Svech is indicative of Blashill’s quality as a coach) and then point out the numerous prospects that faired exactly the same under other coaches as they did under Blash and the numerous prospects that have flourished under Blash. All great coaches let one slip between the cracks now and again, Svech is at best and outlier and at worse a Martin Frk, either way he’s not a benchmark for anything.

Guy can't get any consistency out of his players. Not even Larkin.

Who's been the most consistent impact player under his tenure? Bertuzzi? Maybe Fabbri?

[ely s 457]

3 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Guy can't get any consistency out of his players. Not even Larkin.

Who's been the most consistent impact player under his tenure? Bertuzzi? Maybe Fabbri?

I enjoyed the time you kept your feet still and were just reading. It must have been a hard time sitting there with all this bs exploding in your head and no place to put it... Where´s the anger coming from? This is a FAN board, most people here like the Red Wings and I´m not a 100% sure that that´s case with you. It seems as if you need someone to blame for whatever and tbh that is really annoying and unfortunately is your behaviour ending in insulting and deleted content.

Realize that the DRW are still a bottom 10 team, on the way up,  with a lot of players who are not going to play here for long and they have a coach who might not be the best coach in the world but he´s not as bad as you make him.

 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

3 hours ago, ely s said:

I enjoyed the time you kept your feet still and were just reading. It must have been a hard time sitting there with all this bs exploding in your head and no place to put it... Where´s the anger coming from? This is a FAN board, most people here like the Red Wings and I´m not a 100% sure that that´s case with you. It seems as if you need someone to blame for whatever and tbh that is really annoying and unfortunately is your behaviour ending in insulting and deleted content.

Realize that the DRW are still a bottom 10 team, on the way up,  with a lot of players who are not going to play here for long and they have a coach who might not be the best coach in the world but he´s not as bad as you make him.

 

On this perticular point he is not excactly alone. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

9 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Guy can't get any consistency out of his players. Not even Larkin.

Who's been the most consistent impact player under his tenure? Bertuzzi? Maybe Fabbri?

Larkin's a point per game player right now. Seems pretty consistent to me.

[bIueadams 776]

6 hours ago, ely s said:

I enjoyed the time you kept your feet still and were just reading. It must have been a hard time sitting there with all this bs exploding in your head and no place to put it... Where´s the anger coming from? This is a FAN board, most people here like the Red Wings and I´m not a 100% sure that that´s case with you. It seems as if you need someone to blame for whatever and tbh that is really annoying and unfortunately is your behaviour ending in insulting and deleted content.

Are you seriously gatekeeping Wings fandom because I'm critiquing the coach lol?

Over the last few pages you've been attempting to impress upon me that Sam Gagner - a PK winger who makes 850K a year - is somehow an essential cog to the team that we absolutely had to re-sign. But the BS is in MY head...

It should be painfully obvious to you by now, but I guess it needs to be explained: I do not care at all about losing accounts and starting new ones. This is like account #39 or something for me. Everyone recognizes who I am the moment I start a new one. Maybe you should actually make a sound point about the topic at hand instead of retreating into this cavalier attitude?

6 hours ago, ely s said:

Realize that the DRW are still a bottom 10 team, on the way up,  with a lot of players who are not going to play here for long and they have a coach who might not be the best coach in the world but he´s not as bad as you make him.

At least some of the logic seems to be creeping into your head.

Babcock was billed as a tough coach with an X/O tacticians skill set. No matter your feelings on Babs, for better or worse that evaluation appears pretty accurate.

Blashill was billed as a coach with a skill set in player development - he gud wit kidz - good for a rebuilding team. 6 years later I seriously question that evaluation. Like any coach, he has a list of players that have succeeded developing in his system, and a list of players who consistently underperformed under his guidance. The later list is much much too long for him to be considered a coach whose is skilled in player development. In fact, I may go further and say he is clearly below average in this quality.

So then what is Jeff Blashill? A completely average to sub-average coach with no discernible style or strengths? There's no reason to keep this around. Placeholder status should be done at the end of this year... For the sake of this team and the new found success we're having with Raymond and Seider (and for the sake of those specific players). He's one of the longest tenured coaches in the league and there's literally nothing I can point to as a great success he's achieved for this team. I think his most amazing feat is not being fired already....

Edited November 19, 2021 by bIueadams

[bIueadams 776]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Larkin's a point per game player right now. Seems pretty consistent to me.

Keywords: right now

2017-18: 63 pt pace
2018-19: 79 pt pace
2019-20: 61 pt pace
2020-21: 43 pt pace
2021-22: 82 pt pace

He's production is up and down and all around season by season.