2022 Draft / UFA

[marcaractac 3,963]

5 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Nazar is a Muslim name. In shallah, our harem will grow large. 

the meat in catering will be halal

[bIueadams 776]

8 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

the meat in catering will be halal

How did Nazar come to posses such talents? Through holy jihad. Zadina is a zionist spy. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

31 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

How did Nazar come to posses such talents? Through holy jihad. Zadina is a zionist spy. 

I'm still 100% on the trade Zadina for Turcotte train.

[Akakabuto 1,751]

36 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

How did Nazar come to posses such talents? Through holy jihad. Zadina is a zionist spy. 

 

4 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I'm still 100% on the trade Zadina for Turcotte train.

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

Vrana has outscored Zadina without even playing.  Even Veleno is finding the net more often now.  I'd give Zadina top line duties with Larkin and Raymond the rest of the year to see if he can pull his head out of his ass on from a scoresheet standpoint.  He's playing a good 200' game, and that's all fine, but he NEEDS to produce for this team.  

[bIueadams 776]

9 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

 

If Zadina is not traded, I swear by the sword of Allah I will march into Israel myself.

[bIueadams 776]

Just now, Scott R Lucidi said:

Vrana has outscored Zadina without even playing.  Even Veleno is finding the net more often now.  I'd give Zadina top line duties with Larkin and Raymond the rest of the year to see if he can pull his head out of his ass on from a scoresheet standpoint.  He's playing a good 200' game, and that's all fine, but he NEEDS to produce for this team.  

He's really not. His 200 ft game is pedestrian at best. I'm tired of this excuse for him. If you think Zadina is some kinda defensive stalwart then you should be singing the praises for Erne and Suter and Gagner on the daily. 

@mackel and I were laughed at in the beginning. But I think it has sunk in with everyone now that Zadina is not an impact player of any kind. There's absolutely nothing to write home about him besides that he consistently sucks. 

Day by day his "potential" erodes in the minds of NPC fans. It's only a matter of time b4 even the blind can see he's worthless. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

The effort is there. The skill is there. But he is a perimeter player who just has not adjusted. 

It's no wonder that they are focused so hard on evolving Berggren's game in the AHL. 

The best case of action IMO is to trade him for another player of similar age who is also struggling to live up to his draft position, like Turcotte. You'd hope a change of scenery and approach could help both guys out with new clubs. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

28 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

The effort is there. The skill is there. But he is a perimeter player who just has not adjusted. 

It's no wonder that they are focused so hard on evolving Berggren's game in the AHL. 

The best case of action IMO is to trade him for another player of similar age who is also struggling to live up to his draft position, like Turcotte. You'd hope a change of scenery and approach could help both guys out with new clubs. 

I see what you're saying, but I have to push back on the Berggren comparison a bit. Zadina is a "offensive player" whose offensive skill isn't as good as people though. He's the offensive Brendan Smith (a "dyanmic" offensive player according to one LGW member).  Berggren has the skill. His brain, passing, and skating are miles ahead of Filip. I'd argue his shot is too (his schot selection is better). The Red Wings really had two concerns about Berggren as best I can tell from what they've said publicly. First, that he's got to get to the inside of the ice more to score more goals. Second, that he's got to use his teammates more in transition. Both are valid. He's a bit of a puckhog in transition and prefers to sit on the outside and look for seam passes to open teammates. But both of those things can be attributed to the fact that he didn't play for basically two years. He lost massive developmental time (i.e. time with coaches telling him how to make adjustments).

The issue with Zadina isn't that he plays a perimeter game. The issue is that his skillset isn't as good as people thought. He's a MUCH worse shooter. He doesn't really play with speed. His playmaking is nonexistent. He's good for gaining the zone in transition but the minute he gets there he either A) throws the puck into traffic and turns it over, or B) plays catch with the goalie. He's completely lost in the offensive zone...which was supposed to be his bread and butter.

Berggren has no such issues. For him to be as good as he can be he's got to make small adjustments, but the skill he was drafted on is there. When he gains the zone he's immediately finding passing options and executing. His shot continues to improve but will never be his primary way of hurting you. Right now I'd say he's got Gustav Nyquist floor and Viktor Arvidsson ceiling. Both are perimeter players, but neither were ever seriously going to bust. Zadina, on the other hand, might very well be playing in the Swiss League in a few years.

Edit: Oh, I wanted to mention deception too. Zadina has ZERO deception in his game. He has tunnel vision. If he's gonna pass he watches the receiving player all the way. When he's gonna shoot he might as well yell to the goalie and let him know where the puck is going. He's so goddamn frustrating.

Edited March 23, 2022 by kipwinger

[bIueadams 776]

24 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

The effort is there. The skill is there. But he is a perimeter player who just has not adjusted. 

It's no wonder that they are focused so hard on evolving Berggren's game in the AHL. 

The best case of action IMO is to trade him for another player of similar age who is also struggling to live up to his draft position, like Turcotte. You'd hope a change of scenery and approach could help both guys out with new clubs. 

Is the effort really there? He doesn't battle on the boards or in front of the net at all. He's a perimeter player because he doesn't try. His back check has effort but it's no more effective than Erne's or Suter's. I saw Datsyuk level defensive potential in him at one time, but it's beyond clear he doesn't have the brain for this 

Is the skill really there? His passing is on par with Darren Helm. His shooting is on par with Mikael Samuelson. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

13 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Is the effort really there? He doesn't battle on the boards or in front of the net at all. He's a perimeter player because he doesn't try. His back check has effort but it's no more effective than Erne's or Suter's. I saw Datsyuk level defensive potential in him at one time, but it's beyond clear he doesn't have the brain for this 

Is the skill really there? His passing is on par with Darren Helm. His shooting is on par with Mikael Samuelson. 

He genuinely reminds me a ton of Mikael Samuelson. Their career trajectories are very similar too. SO, all we need to do is find Zadina a Datsyuk or a Sedin and he'll get up above that 20 goal mark a couple times.

[bIueadams 776]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

He genuinely reminds me a ton of Mikael Samuelson. Their career trajectories are very similar too. SO, all we need to do is find Zadina a Datsyuk or a Sedin and he'll get up above that 20 goal mark a couple times.

Please photo shop his eyes so they are wider apart. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by bIueadams

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

The effort is there. The skill is there. But he is a perimeter player who just has not adjusted. 

It's no wonder that they are focused so hard on evolving Berggren's game in the AHL. 

The best case of action IMO is to trade him for another player of similar age who is also struggling to live up to his draft position, like Turcotte. You'd hope a change of scenery and approach could help both guys out with new clubs. 

I would like to see what he does once we have MORE players that are good.  In all fairness, he's only 1 year ahead of Berggren in age but has almost 2 1/2 season of NHL experience more than Berggren.  Sucks to use a high draft pick on a talented player, develop his game to play "Red Wings Hockey" at the NHL level because he's better than any of our other scrubs, then trade him because he's not playing like Lucas Raymond or Jakub Vrana.  We have to all accept that he's NOT those 2 guys.  And until he's a worse option than 12 other forwards, we should just tolerate him.  It's like throwing out Osterle when we had Dekeyser and Leddy.  In other news, everybody happy with Veleno?  Hard to be as happy for him as Seider and Raymond, but he's been damn good this 2nd half of the season.  Looks like a LEGIT 3rd line center that can play 2nd line when needed.  I'm stoked on the guy.  Can't wait to see his offseason progress on the weight pile and how he comes to camp in September.

[marcaractac 3,963]

20 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I would like to see what he does once we have MORE players that are good.  In all fairness, he's only 1 year ahead of Berggren in age but has almost 2 1/2 season of NHL experience more than Berggren.  Sucks to use a high draft pick on a talented player, develop his game to play "Red Wings Hockey" at the NHL level because he's better than any of our other scrubs, then trade him because he's not playing like Lucas Raymond or Jakub Vrana.  We have to all accept that he's NOT those 2 guys.  And until he's a worse option than 12 other forwards, we should just tolerate him.  It's like throwing out Osterle when we had Dekeyser and Leddy.  In other news, everybody happy with Veleno?  Hard to be as happy for him as Seider and Raymond, but he's been damn good this 2nd half of the season.  Looks like a LEGIT 3rd line center that can play 2nd line when needed.  I'm stoked on the guy.  Can't wait to see his offseason progress on the weight pile and how he comes to camp in September.

I don't think he should be traded because he is not Vrana or Raymond. I think he should be traded because he is barely more than Adam Erne. 

Unlike Zadina, Veleno is showing growth as he gets more experience. Zadina's brand of hockey simply doesn't produce at this level.

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Is the effort really there? He doesn't battle on the boards or in front of the net at all. He's a perimeter player because he doesn't try. His back check has effort but it's no more effective than Erne's or Suter's. I saw Datsyuk level defensive potential in him at one time, but it's beyond clear he doesn't have the brain for this 

Is the skill really there? His passing is on par with Darren Helm. His shooting is on par with Mikael Samuelson. 

His effort is there in the sense that he tries at the type of game he plays. He skates hard, backchecks, etc. He just seems to not like the physicality that comes with going to the net or battling along the boards. 

Like, I agree that he should be moved. Take the win hahah. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I see what you're saying, but I have to push back on the Berggren comparison a bit. Zadina is a "offensive player" whose offensive skill isn't as good as people though. He's the offensive Brendan Smith (a "dyanmic" offensive player according to one LGW member).  Berggren has the skill. His brain, passing, and skating are miles ahead of Filip. I'd argue his shot is too (his schot selection is better). The Red Wings really had two concerns about Berggren as best I can tell from what they've said publicly. First, that he's got to get to the inside of the ice more to score more goals. Second, that he's got to use his teammates more in transition. Both are valid. He's a bit of a puckhog in transition and prefers to sit on the outside and look for seam passes to open teammates. But both of those things can be attributed to the fact that he didn't play for basically two years. He lost massive developmental time (i.e. time with coaches telling him how to make adjustments).

The issue with Zadina isn't that he plays a perimeter game. The issue is that his skillset isn't as good as people thought. He's a MUCH worse shooter. He doesn't really play with speed. His playmaking is nonexistent. He's good for gaining the zone in transition but the minute he gets there he either A) throws the puck into traffic and turns it over, or B) plays catch with the goalie. He's completely lost in the offensive zone...which was supposed to be his bread and butter.

Berggren has no such issues. For him to be as good as he can be he's got to make small adjustments, but the skill he was drafted on is there. When he gains the zone he's immediately finding passing options and executing. His shot continues to improve but will never be his primary way of hurting you. Right now I'd say he's got Gustav Nyquist floor and Viktor Arvidsson ceiling. Both are perimeter players, but neither were ever seriously going to bust. Zadina, on the other hand, might very well be playing in the Swiss League in a few years.

Edit: Oh, I wanted to mention deception too. Zadina has ZERO deception in his game. He has tunnel vision. If he's gonna pass he watches the receiving player all the way. When he's gonna shoot he might as well yell to the goalie and let him know where the puck is going. He's so goddamn frustrating.

I agree with what you're saying, I guess I was too vague on the Berggren thing. Berggren has been knocked for playing a perimeter game in Sweden in the past. That was where that comparison came from.

Clearly, the staff is making sure this dude adjusts and plays the NA game the right way. Because of his IQ and skill set, he is thriving at it. Maybe Zadina could have used some of that, maybe he never had any hope, to begin with. 

I'm just happy Veleno is showing continued improvement, because he can be a valuable 3C who can move up and down the lineup (center or wing) if he pans out. Those guys are important. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

22 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I agree with what you're saying, I guess I was too vague on the Berggren thing. Berggren has been knocked for playing a perimeter game in Sweden in the past. That was where that comparison came from.

Clearly, the staff is making sure this dude adjusts and plays the NA game the right way. Because of his IQ and skill set, he is thriving at it. Maybe Zadina could have used some of that, maybe he never had any hope, to begin with. 

I'm just happy Veleno is showing continued improvement, because he can be a valuable 3C who can move up and down the lineup (center or wing) if he pans out. Those guys are important. 

Yeah, Veleno looks really solid. Last night's goal was a gimme, but I've still liked his game over the last 5ish games or so. When he's battling, and skating hard, he's able to win and advance pucks into the offensive zone. That's huge for a 3C type guy. I doubt he'll ever be all that offensive, but that's what wingers are for. I would LOVE to see him with Berggren and Sodorblom next season.

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, Veleno looks really solid. Last night's goal was a gimme, but I've still liked his game over the last 5ish games or so. When he's battling, and skating hard, he's able to win and advance pucks into the offensive zone. That's huge for a 3C type guy. I doubt he'll ever be all that offensive, but that's what wingers are for. I would LOVE to see him with Berggren and Sodorblom next season.

I feel like Veleno will be one of those guys that puts up excellent 3C numbers and has a couple of seasons in his prime where he overachieves and throws up 2C numbers. 

He got a lot of Jordan Staal comparisons at his draft, which is what knocked him down on the board as GMs questioned his offensive ceiling. I'll be pumped if he has a Jordan Staal-esque career. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

31 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, Veleno looks really solid. Last night's goal was a gimme, but I've still liked his game over the last 5ish games or so. When he's battling, and skating hard, he's able to win and advance pucks into the offensive zone. That's huge for a 3C type guy. I doubt he'll ever be all that offensive, but that's what wingers are for. I would LOVE to see him with Berggren and Sodorblom next season.

It helps when the defender assists you on a pick and shoot.  That play made me laugh.  Looked like college hoops.

23 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I feel like Veleno will be one of those guys that puts up excellent 3C numbers and has a couple of seasons in his prime where he overachieves and throws up 2C numbers. 

He got a lot of Jordan Staal comparisons at his draft, which is what knocked him down on the board as GMs questioned his offensive ceiling. I'll be pumped if he has a Jordan Staal-esque career. 

Good call.  We need to draft a Shane Wright when we get a Shane Wright draft slot.  Getting a solid top 9 F at pick 31 is a huge WIN.

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

It helps when the defender assists you on a pick and shoot.  That play made me laugh.  Looked like college hoops.

Oh for sure. If I was the goalie I'd beat that defender with a garden hose. Same to the other dude that sorta half ass skated out to pick up Veleno on the wrap around.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, bIueadams said:

How did Nazar come to posses such talents? Through holy jihad. Zadina is a zionist spy. 

 

4 hours ago, marcaractac said:

the meat in catering will be halal

 

4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

 

Good luck at the airport guys.

[marcaractac 3,963]

21 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

 

Good luck at the airport guys.

stupid racist airports

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

It helps when the defender assists you on a pick and shoot.  That play made me laugh.  Looked like college hoops.

Good call.  We need to draft a Shane Wright when we get a Shane Wright draft slot.  Getting a solid top 9 F at pick 31 is a huge WIN.

Veleno's versatility will be his biggest asset if he keeps improving.

But yeah, still starving for another top 6 C

[marcaractac 3,963]

I like Savoie the most in this draft, but I think he'll be gone by the time we pick. Therefore, team Nazar. Unless Savoie is on the board.

[bIueadams 776]

I used to piss on veleno to upset KR. Veleno seems to have real potential though, even If it's just 3C. Zadina on the other hand doesn't belong in an NHL bottom 6. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

10 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

I used to piss on veleno to upset KR. Veleno seems to have real potential though, even If it's just 3C. Zadina on the other hand doesn't belong in an NHL bottom 6. 

Veleno gonna be that guy we will be thankful we have when injuries hit. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

I used to piss on veleno to upset KR. Veleno seems to have real potential though, even If it's just 3C. Zadina on the other hand doesn't belong in an NHL bottom 6. 

I compared Veleno to Derick Brassard and Jordan Staal and KR lost his mind. He was confident that Veleno was better than THAT. He was confident that  Veleno was the next Philip Danault. Lol. I said he'd be a good 3C or a 2nd line winger. No good enough. He was an "elite" 2C dammit, and nobody was gonna tell KR otherwise!