2022 Draft / UFA

[bIueadams 436]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Lots of Wings info on the latest 32 thoughts podcast. 

The belief is the Wings rebuild is gonna take longer than many think, as Yzerman is not done adding high-end draft picks. Will not take big UFA swings until then.

Be prepared for more veteran UFA signings that can be flipped at the deadline.  

If that's the case then we should trade Bertuzzi. Still don't understand why Fabbri was extended though....

[diehardredwingsfan58 73]

15 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Lots of Wings info on the latest 32 thoughts podcast. 

The belief is the Wings rebuild is gonna take longer than many think, as Yzerman is not done adding high-end draft picks. Will not take big UFA swings until then.

Be prepared for more veteran UFA signings that can be flipped at the deadline.  

LOL on the 32 thoughts podcast, Yzerman already stated that the rebuild is going to take longer and we need to be more patient. So the 32 thought podcast isn't telling us anything that we didn't already know from what Yzerman was saying.

13 hours ago, bIueadams said:

If that's the case then we should trade Bertuzzi. Still don't understand why Fabbri was extended though....

Yeah sure let's trade Bertuzzi, Since it's going to be another 5 years or so let's trade Larkin as well and set back our rebuild another 10 years or so might as well trade everyone not named Seider and Raymond and see how much better we can become. Knowing we're not getting either Wright or Beddard it's going to be pretty bleak.

Edited April 12, 2022 by diehardredwingsfan58

[marcaractac 3,876]

14 hours ago, bIueadams said:

If that's the case then we should trade Bertuzzi. Still don't understand why Fabbri was extended though....

Fabbri was given a 3-year deal to have a competent player around during the rebuild. If Yzerman saw him as a definite future part of this team, I'm guessing he'd have gotten a longer deal. Fabbri will be decent trade bait in a couple of years. 

I still think Bert gets moved at some point. I think Yzerman is waiting for the border bulls*** to end to maximize his value though. 

In the end, this news isn't new. Yzerman said from the start this was gonna take time. He is not gonna rush things because the team played .500 hockey for half a season against backup goalies. We were still hovering around Arizona and Montreal most of the season in ROW. 

Top 10 pick this year, top 10 pick next year, and I think we see things start to change in the 23/24 season. That's when I think we'll truly compete for a playoff spot and the bigger moves will follow. 

Going out and signing the likes of Forsberg is not gonna make this team a contender. It would make the team too good to improve and not good enough to win. 

1 hour ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

LOL on the 32 thoughts podcast, Yzerman already stated that the rebuild is going to take longer and we need to be more patient. So the 32 thought podcast isn't telling us anything that we didn't already know from what Yzerman was saying.

Clearly, but try telling most of the fanbase that. Many think this team was Lindholm and Forsberg away from being contenders

[Jonas Mahonas 1,621]

3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Fabbri was given a 3-year deal to have a competent player around during the rebuild. If Yzerman saw him as a definite future part of this team, I'm guessing he'd have gotten a longer deal. Fabbri will be decent trade bait in a couple of years. 

I still think Bert gets moved at some point. I think Yzerman is waiting for the border bulls*** to end to maximize his value though. 

In the end, this news isn't new. Yzerman said from the start this was gonna take time. He is not gonna rush things because the team played .500 hockey for half a season against backup goalies. We were still hovering around Arizona and Montreal most of the season in ROW. 

Top 10 pick this year, top 10 pick next year, and I think we see things start to change in the 23/24 season. That's when I think we'll truly compete for a playoff spot and the bigger moves will follow. 

Going out and signing the likes of Forsberg is not gonna make this team a contender. It would make the team too good to improve and not good enough to win. 

Clearly, but try telling most of the fanbase that. Many think this team was Lindholm and Forsberg away from being contenders

Adding Forsberg fills a big hole for us = Right Handed 2 RW.  Why would you be against that?  He's 27.  I get not doing it if we are going to go full tank and have the no 1 overall next year.  If not, we should try to get better in both UFA and the draft.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,621]

And why is a 5'10, 180 lbs, 3 ACL tear, injury prone Fabbri so tradeable and such a good signing for Yzerman and 6'1", 205 lbs Forsberg who plays 85% of the time, and scores a point a game, such an untradeable, bad signing again?

 

That Fabbri contract was stupid.  We have Zadina, Berggren, and Soderblom to fill the 3rd line wing positions.  We need a RIGHT HANDED 2 RW.  Yzerman signed a piece of glass journeyman 3rd line center to 4 million per.  And sure enough, injury.  I called that injury 2 weeks before it happened.  The odds are that Fabbri will be a shell of his former shell.  That's not going to interest any teams in the future.  

[bIueadams 436]

6 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

LOL on the 32 thoughts podcast, Yzerman already stated that the rebuild is going to take longer and we need to be more patient. So the 32 thought podcast isn't telling us anything that we didn't already know from what Yzerman was saying.

Yeah sure let's trade Bertuzzi, Since it's going to be another 5 years or so let's trade Larkin as well and set back our rebuild another 10 years or so might as well trade everyone not named Seider and Raymond and see how much better we can become. Knowing we're not getting either Wright or Beddard it's going to be pretty bleak.

If Yzerman is willing to trade Bertuzzi, then he should also be willing to trade Larkin. The only reason Larkin isn't being talked about in trades is because we have literally no centers to replace him. I think it will be telling what kind of contract extension Larkin gets this year. If it's another 2-4 year extension I think that'll signal that that's the amount of time we have to replace Larkin.

[kipwinger 7,654]

I'm taking Friedman with a grain of salt here. Everybody was saying the same exact stuff about New York a couple of years ago, then they traded for Trouba, signed Panarin, and got a little draft luck and now their rebuild is over before it started.

Detroit already got the draft luck. In three years we got two top defensemen, a budding elite offensive winger, and a future starting goalie to go with a higher end "core" of guys like Larkin, Vrana, and Bert. We land one top free agent, make one impact trade, and nobody will be taking about a rebuild anymore.

[bIueadams 436]

33 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm taking Friedman with a grain of salt here. Everybody was saying the same exact stuff about New York a couple of years ago, then they traded for Trouba, signed Panarin, and got a little draft luck and now their rebuild is over before it started.

Detroit already got the draft luck. In three years we got two top defensemen, a budding elite offensive winger, and a future starting goalie to go with a higher end "core" of guys like Larkin, Vrana, and Bert. We land one top free agent, make one impact trade, and nobody will be taking about a rebuild anymore.

It's not hard to see the pieces are in place. Which is why I don't want to blow a good thing up by trading Bertuzzi and possibly others.

Seider - 1RD (superstar potential)
Edvinsson - 1LD (superstar potential)
Raymond - 1RW (superstar potential)
Cossa - 1G - (superstar potential)

Seider's pretty much a lock to be a superstar. Edvinsson and Raymond are very close to being locks. Cossa is farther out, but the potential exists.

Larkin - 1/2C
Bertuzzi - 1/2LW
Vrana - 1/2LW
Hronek - 2RD
Nedeljkovic - 1/2G

They're not ever going to be cornerstone superstars, but these are high-end core players

Soderblom - LW  (wildcard)
Johansson  - LD (wildcard)
Wallinder - LD (wildcard)

The wildcards. Each one has high end potential. Could develop into elite players for us, but will likely at least be supporting characters if they don't.

Rasmussen C/W
Veleno - C
Berggren - RW
Hanas - LW/RW
Buium - LD
Mazur - LW/RW
Zadina - RW

The rest. Lacking superstar talent, but will likely play in support roles.

Bertuzzi - ___ - Raymond
Vrana - Larkin - Soderblom
Hanas - Veleno - Berggren
Mazur - Rasmussen - Zadina

Edvinsson - Seider
Johansson - Hronek
Wallinder - Buium

Cossa
Ned

We literally just need a superstar 1C. If we get one this year...

 

 

[marcaractac 3,876]

3 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

We literally just need a superstar 1C. If we get one this year...

All hail Savoie

[Jonas Mahonas 1,621]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

All hail Savoie

I think you are nailing this take.  kid has wheels and mitts.  Gaudreau type ceiling, old Larionov type floor.

[redw1ngs 148]

2 hours ago, bIueadams said:

If Yzerman is willing to trade Bertuzzi, then he should also be willing to trade Larkin. The only reason Larkin isn't being talked about in trades is because we have literally no centers to replace him. I think it will be telling what kind of contract extension Larkin gets this year. If it's another 2-4 year extension I think that'll signal that that's the amount of time we have to replace Larkin.

There are many reasons fans might want to trade Bert and keep Larks but its not just position. Not many fans are talking about trading Vrana who is also lw. Larkin is a much better allaround player then Bertuzzi imo. Hes proving to be a capable 1c which is a much harder position to fill. Hes also the captain.

Like it or not Bertuzzi will be traded next season and Larkin will retire a Red Wing.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, bIueadams said:

It's not hard to see the pieces are in place. Which is why I don't want to blow a good thing up by trading Bertuzzi and possibly others.

Seider - 1RD (superstar potential)
Edvinsson - 1LD (superstar potential)
Raymond - 1RW (superstar potential)
Cossa - 1G - (superstar potential)

Seider's pretty much a lock to be a superstar. Edvinsson and Raymond are very close to being locks. Cossa is farther out, but the potential exists.

Larkin - 1/2C
Bertuzzi - 1/2LW
Vrana - 1/2LW
Hronek - 2RD
Nedeljkovic - 1/2G

They're not ever going to be cornerstone superstars, but these are high-end core players

Soderblom - LW  (wildcard)
Johansson  - LD (wildcard)
Wallinder - LD (wildcard)

The wildcards. Each one has high end potential. Could develop into elite players for us, but will likely at least be supporting characters if they don't.

Rasmussen C/W
Veleno - C
Berggren - RW
Hanas - LW/RW
Buium - LD
Mazur - LW/RW
Zadina - RW

The rest. Lacking superstar talent, but will likely play in support roles.

Bertuzzi - ___ - Raymond
Vrana - Larkin - Soderblom
Hanas - Veleno - Berggren
Mazur - Rasmussen - Zadina

Edvinsson - Seider
Johansson - Hronek
Wallinder - Buium

Cossa
Ned

We literally just need a superstar 1C. If we get one this year...

 

 

Good depth, but that roster isnt going to score enough to be a contender. Gonna need another 60+ point winger.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[redw1ngs 148]

Soderblom-Larkin-Raymond

Vrana-22/23draft-Zadina

Rasmusen-Veleno-Berggren

Erne-Stephens-Mazur

Edvinsson-Seider

Wallinder-Hronek

Johansson-Lindstrom

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I think you guys are overestimating Soderblom. Middle 6 winger at best.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,621]

Good team needs:

 

Vrana - __________ - Raymond

Bertuzzi - Larkin - __________

Zadina - Veleno - __________

Berggren - Rasmussen - Stephens

Soderblom/Smith

________ - Seider

Edvinsson - Hronek

Sebrango - Lindstrom

McIsaac

Ned

Cossa

 

 

.500 to barely playoff team:

 

Vrana - Larkin - Raymond

Bertuzzi - Veleno - Zadina

Berggren - Rasmussen - Soderblom

Smith - Stephens - Kriscuolo

Erne/Gagner

Osterle - Seider

Wallen - Hronek

Edvinsson - Lindstrom

McIsaac

Ned

Greiss

Thats not THAT bad, now that I look at it.  4 holes to fill.  Big ones in 1C / 1LHD.  Would like to see us add Forsberg to knock out that Right Handed 2 RW need.  That would be a quick easy fix to that.

[redw1ngs 148]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think you guys are overestimating Soderblom. Middle 6 winger at best.

Whos overestimating him? Has anyone said he will be a 70pt 1w? Are Palat Verhaeghe or Bunting 1w? No. Are they the best lw on there team? No. They just fit well on those top lines.

Ya Soderblom might be a mid6w on paper but could work real well on a top line creating space for Larkin and Raymond.

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Good team needs:

 

Vrana - __________ - Raymond

Bertuzzi - Larkin - __________

Zadina - Veleno - __________

Berggren - Rasmussen - Stephens

Soderblom/Smith

________ - Seider

Edvinsson - Hronek

Sebrango - Lindstrom

McIsaac

Ned

Cossa

Larks is a 1c Edvinsson is a 1ld Sebrango sucks. 1 of Wallinder/Johansson should slot in 1 of those ld spots. Everything else I more less agree with.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,621]

21 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Whos overestimating him? Has anyone said he will be a 70pt 1w? Are Palat Verhaeghe or Bunting 1w? No. Are they the best lw on there team? No. They just fit well on those top lines.

Ya Soderblom might be a mid6w on paper but could work real well on a top line creating space for Larkin and Raymond.

Larks is a 1c Edvinsson is a 1ld Sebrango sucks. 1 of Wallinder/Johansson should slot in 1 of those ld spots. Everything else I more less agree with.

yah, Larkin is good.  We need one more center worth his salt.  Hope youre right about Eddog.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

33 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Whos overestimating him?

Anyone who thinks he belongs in the top 6.

34 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Ya Soderblom might be a mid6w on paper but could work real well on a top line creating space for Larkin and Raymond.

Abdelkader says "S'up?"

[redw1ngs 148]

18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Anyone who thinks he belongs in the top 6.

Abdelkader says "S'up?"

Lol you could just simply say you have no idea what your talking about and you never seen Soderblom play.

[marcaractac 3,876]

14 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think you guys are overestimating Soderblom. Middle 6 winger at best.

 

12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Anyone who thinks he belongs in the top 6.

Abdelkader says "S'up?"

 

I do not think you understand what these terms mean. 

[kipwinger 7,654]

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

 

 

I do not think you understand what these terms mean. 

Ive always thought these types of categorizations are not very useful anyway. Florida currently has a 70 point player on the 3rd line wing. Pittsburgh won a Cup with Kessel on the 3rd line wing. Meanwhile Mike Hoffman has played his whole career as a top six wing despite really only being able to score on the powerplay, and getting absolutely caved in every other facet of the game.

For the most part where you play in the lineup doesn't say a whole lot about your skill level or contributions to the team. I always laugh when people trip over themselves to explain why guys like Draisaitl and Malkin are not 2Cs despite the fact that they center the 2nd line. It's fully possible that your 2nd and 3rd line guys might actually be better than your first line guys, or vice versa. NHL coaches aren't dumb, they don't put their five best players on the top line and the top defensive pair.

Elmer Sodorblom might well play on the 3rd line, but I almost guarantee he'll score 20-30 goals a season from that position. His shot's too good (I'd argue it's currently about the 3rd-4th best in the organization), his puck protection is good good, his skating is too good (at that size). He's also shown he can produce a lot in limited minutes at 5 on 5. This is very much NOT Justin Abdelkader, this is a guy who was top ten in goal scoring (as a 20 year old) in one of the hardest leagues in the world. Wherever the coach puts him in the lineup he's going to produce.

[marcaractac 3,876]

27 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Ive always thought these types of categorizations are not very useful anyway. Florida currently has a 70 point player on the 3rd line wing. Pittsburgh won a Cup with Kessel on the 3rd line wing. Meanwhile Mike Hoffman has played his whole career as a top six wing despite really only being able to score on the powerplay, and getting absolutely caved in every other facet of the game.

For the most part where you play in the lineup doesn't say a whole lot about your skill level or contributions to the team. I always laugh when people trip over themselves to explain why guys like Draisaitl and Malkin are not 2Cs despite the fact that they center the 2nd line. It's fully possible that your 2nd and 3rd line guys might actually be better than your first line guys, or vice versa. NHL coaches aren't dumb, they don't put their five best players on the top line and the top defensive pair.

Elmer Sodorblom might well play on the 3rd line, but I almost guarantee he'll score 20-30 goals a season from that position. His shot's too good (I'd argue it's currently about the 3rd-4th best in the organization), his puck protection is good good, his skating is too good (at that size). He's also shown he can produce a lot in limited minutes at 5 on 5. This is very much NOT Justin Abdelkader, this is a guy who was top ten in goal scoring (as a 20 year old) in one of the hardest leagues in the world. Wherever the coach puts him in the lineup he's going to produce.

It's almost as if lines need to be balanced to be able to roll four lines and succeed at a high level haha. I never did understand the load all top talent on the top lines crowd. Makes it pretty easy for the opposition to defend against. 

 

Even the pp needs a guy with some grit to play net front and battle in the corners.

Edited April 13, 2022 by marcaractac

[bIueadams 436]

18 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

There are many reasons fans might want to trade Bert and keep Larks but its not just position. Not many fans are talking about trading Vrana who is also lw. Larkin is a much better allaround player then Bertuzzi imo. Hes proving to be a capable 1c which is a much harder position to fill. Hes also the captain.

Like it or not Bertuzzi will be traded next season and Larkin will retire a Red Wing.

So it's "not about position" but Vrana exists, and it's about position, and also he's the captain. K.

Fans are talking about Bertuzzi because he didn't vax and the trade rumors ran from there all the way until the deadline. Larkin is impossible to trade right now as long as Suter/Veleno/Ras/Stephens are the back ups.

If Bertuzzi goes... the writing is on the wall that Vrana, Fabbri, Larkin, and Hronek may all not be part of the future. I really put no weight into Larkin being captain. Seider can do that job yesterday.

 

16 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think you guys are overestimating Soderblom. Middle 6 winger at best.

I listed him as a "wildcard" for a reason. Cause he looks like a boom or 3rd line prospect. He's basically Franzen with more size, better hands, and faster skates. He's 3rd on his SHL team in scoring at age 20 behind two older guys in Ryan Lasch (#1 scorer in the league) and Michael Spaceck (#9 scorer in the league). 

He's also #1 goal scorer on his team by a lot. Soderblom with 21. Lasch with 13.

He's the #1 under 21 scorer in the SHL. He's the #6 scorer in the SHL under 25 at only age 20.

1. Linus Karlsson (22, Rd 3 to the Jets)
2. Pontus Holmberg (23, Rd 6 to the Leafs)
3. Pontus Andreasson (23, undrafted to the Wings)
4. Rickard Hugg (23, undrafted)
5. Olle Lycksell (22, Rd 6 to the Flyers)
6. Elmer Soderblom (20, Rd 6 to the Wings)

He's also the #7 goal scorer in the entire league at only age 20. Only young player who's scored more goals than him the SHL is Linus Karlsson (22).

The hype is real with Soderblom and you are sleeping.

[bIueadams 436]

SY said in the TDL presser one of his biggest jobs this offseason will be inking extensions to core players like Like Larkin and Bertuzzi.

Larkin: $7.5-8 x 8
Bertuzzi: $6.5-7 x 3-5
Zadina: $1-1.5 x 2-3
Stephens: $750K-1 x 2-3
Walman: $1-1.5 x 1-2

[Jonas Mahonas 1,621]

18 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

SY said in the TDL presser one of his biggest jobs this offseason will be inking extensions to core players like Like Larkin and Bertuzzi.

Larkin: $7.5-8 x 8
Bertuzzi: $6.5-7 x 3-5
Zadina: $1-1.5 x 2-3
Stephens: $750K-1 x 2-3
Walman: $1-1.5 x 1-2

id lile to see us take a risk on zadina and go 3 x 8.  give him a secure footing, and i think he gets better.  his stress level has to be off the chart.