5/7 - Draft Lottery GDT - Detroit v The Bettman - 8PM EST

[kipwinger 8,527]

Why are fans so obsessed with "no tanking"? Who cares? We tanked and literally everyone was in favor of it. Chicago does it, and gets luckier in the lottery, and now we have to regurgitate this same "tanking is bad" narrative again. Most rebuilding teams tank. We did, Edmonton did, Ottawa did, Buffalo did, Arizona perpetually tanks.

Why do we have to have the most convoluted draft order of any major professional sport to combat something that pretty much everyone (except Gary Bettman) agrees is good to do once in a while? Just do reverse draft order and if teams like Edmonton want to be bad for 15 years in hopes of landing a McDavid one day, more power to them. Meanwhile a lot of non-McDavid teams are out there competing for and winning Cups.

If nothing else this year's playoffs has shown that generational guys don't really make your team more competitive. Seattle has no players of that caliber. Vegas has a few high end guys, all of whom they traded for, and none of whom required winning the lottery. Same for Florida, Carolina, and Dallas.

Edmonton, Jersey, and TO are the only teams that A) tanked, B) won the draft lottery, and C) are still playing hockey. And none of them are performing well enough to suggest that this strategy is some sure fire way to build a winner.

[Axl Foley 227]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

The right way to do it is to set up a schedule where each team gets one automatically once every 32 years.  Then just do a worst to first for the #2 to #32 pick.  Its a joke to have Detroit go 40+ years without one and have Edmonton get 4 of them.  Will there still be tanking to get the number 2 pick?  Yah.  But this system completely removes the Betman closed door, closed windows, video taped lottery ball stupidness.  Every hockey fan knows the draft order is rigged right now.  It's obvious.  

What incentive would the league possibly have to give 1st overall to Chicago? It actually makes the league look bad.

[kipwinger 8,527]

19 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

What incentive would the league possibly have to give 1st overall to Chicago? It actually makes the league look bad.

People can't even keep their idiotic conspiracies straight anymore. I just saw fans online wisecracking that the league would have a meltdown if Seattle or Vegas ended up playing Florida or Carolina in the finals. As if Gary Bettman spend the last 30 years expanding the NHL into non-traditional markets only to be agitated when the plan finally bears fruit.

Likewise, fans think that the league conspired to rig the lottery to give a generational talent to a team that has no problem selling tickets or getting national exposure without him. The NHL has revenue sharing. Why on earth would they want to send Bedard to a team that generates massive amounts of revenue without him? Wouldn't they want to send him to a team that doesn't generate revenue, hope he increases ticket and merch sales, and then split that new money amongst themselves?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

People can't even keep their idiotic conspiracies straight anymore. I just saw fans online wisecracking that the league would have a meltdown if Seattle or Vegas ended up playing Florida or Carolina in the finals. As if Gary Bettman spend the last 30 years expanding the NHL into non-traditional markets only to be agitated when the plan finally bears fruit.

Likewise, fans think that the league conspired to rig the lottery to give a generational talent to a team that has no problem selling tickets or getting national exposure without him. The NHL has revenue sharing. Why on earth would they want to send Bedard to a team that generates massive amounts of revenue without him? Wouldn't they want to send him to a team that doesn't generate revenue, hope he increases ticket and merch sales, and then split that new money amongst themselves?

Sports fan are the biggest scapegoating, tinfoil hat wearing, irrational, emotional babies on planet earth.

I hate most of you.  

[kipwinger 8,527]

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Sports fan are the biggest scapegoating, tinfoil hat wearing, irrational, emotional babies on planet earth.

I hate most of you.  

Columbus Ohio is now the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the Midwest, behind only Chicago. There are A LOT of potential fans in the Columbus viewing area. So logically the NHL rigged the lottery to give a generational player to a team that primed for massive revenue growth right? Nope, they'd rather he go to a team that sells out every game without Bedard and then spend the next year answering questions about why Chicago still had the 1st round pick to land Bedard after the sexual assualt scandal. THAT'S totally good for business.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

Mock Drafts:

Button - Barlow

Wheeler - Danielson

Sportsnet - Barlow

Pronman - Honzek

The Hockey News - Yager

The Athletic Staff Writers - Leonard

NHL.com: Adam Kimelman - Benson

NHL.com: Mike Morreale - Moore

 

Quite the spread.........

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by The 91 of Ryans

[Walman6million 250]

Before the Toews/Kane/Keith era the Hawks fandom was dead in Chicago. That lil dynasty of there's not only revived it, it made them super popular in Chicago again.

Now with the sex scandal and the tank, the league is afraid of losing everything they built. 

Now with Bedard they can have 10 more outdoor games a year there in the next 20 years.

Its all pretty obvious.

[Walman6million 250]

Friedman on 32 thoughts:

Quote

“When it comes to the lottery results, I was shocked. I can’t tell you how many people around the league who I consider to be very smart were convinced that it was rigged. People in the league on teams came to me and said ‘This is rigged’”

Other teams literally think it's rigged

[Dabura 12,207]

This fills me with feelings, some good and some bad:

https://archive.is/g6Ofb

Quote

8. Washington Capitals: Matvei Michkov, RW, SKA St. Petersburg (RUSSIA)

I think this is the alleyway where a Michkov pick becomes realistic, plus or minus one or two picks. In very early discussions with people around the league on him, Washington or Detroit are considered the betting favorites for his landing spot. Does anyone really have a clue though? No. He could be long gone by this pick, or possibly he could drop further.

9. Detroit Red Wings: Samuel Honzek, LW, Vancouver (WHL)

This is the point where the draft opens up and a lot of different options present themselves. Honzek checks a lot of the boxes the Wings look for in a prospect while also being a player who is highly thought of around the league.

[Barrie 900]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Columbus Ohio is now the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the Midwest, behind only Chicago. There are A LOT of potential fans in the Columbus viewing area. So logically the NHL rigged the lottery to give a generational player to a team that primed for massive revenue growth right? Nope, they'd rather he go to a team that sells out every game without Bedard and then spend the next year answering questions about why Chicago still had the 1st round pick to land Bedard after the sexual assualt scandal. THAT'S totally good for business.

Are you sure about Columbus having the 2nd largest metro area in the midwest?

[Walman6million 250]

4 minutes ago, Barrie said:

Are you sure about Columbus having the 2nd largest metro area in the midwest?

1. Chicago
2. Detroit
3. Minny
4. STL
5. KC
6. Columbus

Good call Barrie. Kip is lying to support his narrative.

[kipwinger 8,527]

Columbus has the 2nd largest population amongst midwest cities (behind Chicago) and the largest population growth according to the US Census Bureau. However, they do not have the largest "metro area", which is what I previously said. My mistake. I think my original point is more than valid though.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-cities-in-the-midwest.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Midwestern_cities_by_size#cite_note-1

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus-among-fastest-growing-metropolitan-areas-as-smaller-ohio-areas-shrink/

[Akakabuto 1,751]

Chicago is too big to fail. This is the leagues equivalent of a goverment bail out. 

[Walman6million 250]

26 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Chicago is too big to fail. This is the leagues equivalent of a goverment bail out. 

Chicago is the jewel of the NHL to Gary. They make a boat load of cash everytime they do an outdoor game there. He wants his honeypot flowing. Anybody who says otherwise glows in the dark. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Columbus Ohio is now the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the Midwest, behind only Chicago. There are A LOT of potential fans in the Columbus viewing area. So logically the NHL rigged the lottery to give a generational player to a team that primed for massive revenue growth right? Nope, they'd rather he go to a team that sells out every game without Bedard and then spend the next year answering questions about why Chicago still had the 1st round pick to land Bedard after the sexual assualt scandal. THAT'S totally good for business.

Was at a BJs game spring '22 - great crowd and fun atmosphere...Many guys (and some women) wore the Civil War Union Cap...Fun times...If any team outside of Detroit  deserves some respect/success - it's Columbus.

1 hour ago, Walman6million said:

Friedman on 32 thoughts:

Other teams literally think it's rigged

Edited May 11, 2023 by F.Michael

[Walman6million 250]

2 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Was at a BJs game spring '22 - great crowd and fun atmosphere...Many guys (and some women) wore the Civil War Union Cap...Fun times...If any team outside of Detroit  deserves some respect/success - it's Columbus.

Does this mean we can wear a confederate hat to troll oppose them?

Heritage, not hate

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, Walman6million said:

Does this mean we can wear a confederate hat to troll oppose them?

 

Yes it does Johnny Reb.

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

This fills me with feelings, some good and some bad:

https://archive.is/g6Ofb

I just pray to baby Jesus that we don't wind up with Zadina part deux at 9th and Cholowski at 17th/18th...

Edited May 11, 2023 by F.Michael

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Why do people say things like "Chicago sells out every game"?

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2023/04/17/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/nhl-attendance-regular-season.aspx

 

20 second fact check.  Attendance down 7.2%.  If they ended up with Red Wings luck and got the #6 pick, where do you think 2023-24 ends up?  NY, LA, Chi, Edm, and Tor are the markets Betman is making sure thrive.  As a testament to Detroit's fan base, they go into a "Dead Things" spell for 8 years and still fill the arena up 95% of the way.  The Chicago move was the correct one.

 

And why havent any of you NERDS answered me on the statistics?  Youre all f king tool bags that should be able to easily figure that out.  IT'S FOOKING RIGGED IS WHY!!!

 

Why isnt the sheet with 1000 number combos on it made available online before the draft if it's real.  The whisper suit guy with his secret combo sheet is rslurred as it gets.

[kipwinger 8,527]

34 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

Chicago is the jewel of the NHL to Gary. They make a boat load of cash everytime they do an outdoor game there. He wants his honeypot flowing. Anybody who says otherwise glows in the dark. 

Except that literally everything Gary Bettman has ever done in the NHL runs counter to this philosophy. He has consistently invested in new and emerging markets despite a chorus of detractors missing no opportunity to suggest that he should be doubling down on established markets. He's overseen the NHL while draft lotteries handed 1st OA picks time and time again to small markets, instead of the large "honeypot" markets you're suggesting. We watched Edmonton win time after time despite the fact that Montreal would have been a better choice if he wanted to prop up "honeypot" markets. We've seen Jersey win twice. Buffalo win twice. He's bent over backward to expand the NHL market  share to places like Arizona, Atlanta, Vegas, Seattle, Dallas, Tampa and Miami, and that philosophy has been extremely lucrative for owners BTW. If he wanted to rig the lottery wouldn't he have Arizona win? Since that's consistent with everything he's ever done vis-a-vis that team/market? 

Most importantly he helped usher in a salary cap that benefits small markets and punishes larger ones. What he has definitely never done is demonstrate that he thinks it's better to have a league centered around a handful of big cities in the Northern U.S. and Canada.

Edited May 11, 2023 by kipwinger

[Akakabuto 1,751]

Classic Subversion

Edited May 11, 2023 by Akakabuto

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Except that literally everything Gary Bettman has ever done in the NHL runs counter to this philosophy. He has consistently invested in new and emerging markets despite a chorus of detractors missing no opportunity to suggest that he should be doubling down on established markets. He's overseen the NHL while draft lotteries handed 1st OA picks time and time again to small markets, instead of the large "honeypot" markets you're suggesting. We watched Edmonton win time after time despite the fact that Montreal would have been a better choice if he wanted to prop up "honeypot" markets. We've seen Jersey win twice. Buffalo win twice. He's bent over backward to expand the NHL market  share to places like Arizona, Atlanta, Vegas, Seattle, Dallas, Tampa and Miami, and that philosophy has been extremely lucrative for owners BTW. If he wanted to rig the lottery wouldn't he have Arizona win? Since that's consistent with everything he's ever done vis-a-vis that team/market? 

What he has definitely never done is demonstrate that he thinks it's better for the league to have a league centered around a handful of big cities in the Northern U.S. and Canada.

He knows Arizona is on its way to failure.  See my post above.  

[kipwinger 8,527]

NHL Fans (2005-2023): Bettman's salary cap punishes successful franchises!!!!!

NHL Fans (Today): Bettman is biased in favor of successful franchises!!!!!

[Walman6million 250]

23 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Except that literally everything Gary Bettman has ever done in the NHL runs counter to this philosophy. He has consistently invested in new and emerging markets despite a chorus of detractors missing no opportunity to suggest that he should be doubling down on established markets. He's overseen the NHL while draft lotteries handed 1st OA picks time and time again to small markets, instead of the large "honeypot" markets you're suggesting. We watched Edmonton win time after time despite the fact that Montreal would have been a better choice if he wanted to prop up "honeypot" markets. We've seen Jersey win twice. Buffalo win twice. He's bent over backward to expand the NHL market  share to places like Arizona, Atlanta, Vegas, Seattle, Dallas, Tampa and Miami, and that philosophy has been extremely lucrative for owners BTW. If he wanted to rig the lottery wouldn't he have Arizona win? Since that's consistent with everything he's ever done vis-a-vis that team/market? 

What he has definitely never done is demonstrate that he thinks it's better for the league to have a league centered around a handful of big cities in the Northern U.S. and Canada.

No ones saying Gary doesnt invest in expanding markets. Youre arguing a completely seperate point. 

Detroit fans show up no matter what you do. Chicago fans are fairweather and will just switch to the Bulls if you allow them to fail.

Pretty easy logic to follow. 

[kipwinger 8,527]

10 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

No ones saying Gary doesnt invest in expanding markets. Youre arguing a completely seperate point. 

Detroit fans show up no matter what you do. Chicago fans are fairweather and will just switch to the Bulls if you allow them to fail.

Pretty easy logic to follow. 

Not really when you consider that A) the Bulls suck too, and B) the Blackhawks are one of the most profitable teams in the league despite missing the playoffs 5 of the last 8 years and losing the first round the other three years.

Which just proves my point. Chicago will make money even if they're bad, just like Detroit. So if the league was going to rig the lottery for someone, why do it for them?

11 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

He knows Arizona is on its way to failure.  See my post above.  

Wait, so the league has no problem letting Arizona play in a college arena for the next four seasons and lose massive amounts of gate revenue but they won't gift them a superstar prospect who will just go with the team to the next city IF they relocate? Good call.

Edited May 11, 2023 by kipwinger

[Walman6million 250]

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Not really when you consider that A) the Bulls suck too, and B) the Blackhawks are one of the most profitable teams in the league despite missing the playoffs 5 of the last 8 years and losing the first round the other three years.

Which just proves my point. Chicago will make money even if they're bad, just like Detroit. So if the league was going to rig the lottery for someone, why do it for them?

Wait, so the league has no problem letting Arizona play in a college arena for the next four seasons and lose massive amounts of gate revenue but they won't gift them a superstar prospect who will just go with the team to the next city IF they relocate? Good call.

Sex scandal and Toews and Kane are gone. Try to keep up. The landscape has drastically changed.