Norris Quinn

[Scott R Lucidi 458]

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/player/quinn-hughes-8480800

 

Azzload of points and +33.  Holland choosing Zadina over this guy is the equivalent of the Portland Trailblazers taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.  I cringe each time I see Quinn Hughes and think about what our team would look like with Hughes-Seider, Edvinsson-ASP as our top 4.  CRINGE LIKE WANT TO STAB SOMETHING AND WATCH IT BLEED CRINGE.  Ken Holland you stupid clown.  Go away from the NHL already.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

25 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/player/quinn-hughes-8480800

 

Azzload of points and +33.  Holland choosing Zadina over this guy is the equivalent of the Portland Trailblazers taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.  I cringe each time I see Quinn Hughes and think about what our team would look like with Hughes-Seider, Edvinsson-ASP as our top 4.  CRINGE LIKE WANT TO STAB SOMETHING AND WATCH IT BLEED CRINGE.  Ken Holland you stupid clown.  Go away from the NHL already.

That dopey phuktard's last gift to Wing's fans. When people say you don't need lotto picks to build contenders what they mean is you have to get guys like this out of the top 3-5. He was right there. Awful. I hope they keep Kenny out of the teambuilding category of the HOF for this alone. 

[Troy McClure 346]

Hes only playing good because of Hronek

[Axl Foley 228]

29 other GMs would have taken Zadina there over Hughes.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

On 1/19/2024 at 5:20 PM, Axl Foley said:

29 other GMs would have taken Zadina there over Hughes.

Yet there was three that didn't. GM's 3,4,5 all passed. Maybe they drafted for need? Fine, but thats what Holland should've done too. The need was D. Everyone knew it, even the Ol' Tire Kicker himself knew it. This was worse than letting Hossa go and the KFQ trade combined. 

[kipwinger 8,529]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Yet there was three that didn't. GM's 3,4,5 all passed. Maybe they drafted for need? Fine, but thats what Holland should've done too. The need was D. Everyone knew it, even the Ol' Tire Kicker himself knew it. This was worse than letting Hossa go and the KFQ trade combined. 

This is a good point, even on draft day there were GMs that didn't wanna touch this guy. Otherwise he wouldn't have slid to us.

But for the sake of fairness I'll add that he wasn't talked about in the same way Veleno (for instance) was. Joey V slid down the board because he lacked offense. Pretty much everyone agreed that if he didn't make it at the NHL level it would be because he couldn't score much. That's why he fell. There was no such consensus around the bad parts of Zadina's game. The Wings found out that he was a quitter who didn't want to work, didn't want to compete, was lost defensively, and couldn't hit a barn with his shot. But NOBODY was talking about those issues pre-draft the way they did with Veleno. It was almost taken for granted that he'd score in the NHL, even if he did so in the mold of other purely offensive guys (e.g. Vrana, Hoffman, Duclair).

Edited January 21 by kipwinger

[Axl Foley 228]

23 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Yet there was three that didn't. GM's 3,4,5 all passed. Maybe they drafted for need? Fine, but thats what Holland should've done too. The need was D. Everyone knew it, even the Ol' Tire Kicker himself knew it. This was worse than letting Hossa go and the KFQ trade combined. 

Because 1-5 drafted arguably better players, or players that better fit a need, at their draft position according to prospect rankings and analysis. Zadina was projected to go higher than he did. GMs will (and should) take the BPA at their draft position if a player falls in their lap. It's unfortunate, in  hindsight, that Hughes is the better player. But at the time, Zadina was considered the better prospect and picking him over Hughes would have been considered the right call at the time.

[Scott R Lucidi 458]

I just don't understand why the Michigan thing didn't help us make the right choice here.  What a disaster.  So frustrating.

[LeftWinger 4,964]

7 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

better fit a need

You said it right here.

Everyone in the hockey world knew that D was the better fit for what Detroit needed. Holland thought he was getting one over on everyone. He should've been like the previous teams and drafted to "better fit a need." Defense. 

[Axl Foley 228]

Yeah? And how did those other GMs who drafted for need in the top 5 do in that draft?

[Troy McClure 346]

Zadina apologists still exist lol

[mackel 682]

On 1/19/2024 at 6:20 PM, Axl Foley said:

29 other GMs would have taken Zadina there over Hughes.

I seriously doubt that, it's why he fell in the 1st place.  I'm no scout and I saw a lazy, selfish incomplete player... the scouts for teams 1-5 did too.  I'm convinced Holland bought the public rankings hype.  I can't prove it, but I'll believe it unless I hear otherwise from Holland in an interview. 

[Troy McClure 346]

6 hours ago, mackel said:

I seriously doubt that, it's why he fell in the 1st place.  I'm no scout and I saw a lazy, selfish incomplete player... the scouts for teams 1-5 did too.  I'm convinced Holland bought the public rankings hype.  I can't prove it, but I'll believe it unless I hear otherwise from Holland in an interview. 

You could tell 20 games into his first season in GR, this certainly wasn't a first round player, let alone top 5 caliber. Makes you wonder if Holland considered him out of reach, and never bothered to scout him...

[Scott R Lucidi 458]

2 hours ago, Troy McClure said:

You could tell 20 games into his first season in GR, this certainly wasn't a first round player, let alone top 5 caliber. Makes you wonder if Holland considered him out of reach, and never bothered to scout him...

Holland's legacy fell apart here

[LeftWinger 4,964]

11 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

Yeah? And how did those other GMs who drafted for need in the top 5 do in that draft?

Here's a 2018 redraft sorted by points. The only one doing worse is Hayton in Arizona. But he had 43 points last season and has been injured all but 16 games this season. Zandina has never topped 25 points and Hayton only has 2 points less in 40 less games played. EVERY defenseman that was being talked about as a possibility is doing better, and has more points. Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, and even Boqvist. Zadina is by far, the biggest bust of the 2018 draft...Thanks Holland. 

Edited January 23 by LeftWinger

[Scott R Lucidi 458]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Here's a 2018 redraft sorted by points. The only one doing worse is Hayton in Arizona. But he had 43 points last season and has been injured all but 16 games this season. Zandina has never topped 25 points and Hayton only has 2 points less in 40 less games played. EVERY defenseman that was being talked about as a possibility is doing better, and has more points. Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, and even Boqvist. Zadina is by far, the biggest bust of the 2018 draft...Thanks Holland. 

quinn is just hitting his stride, too.  This is gonna be so ugly in 5 years.  800 pts, 3 Norris Trophies for Hughes, 125 pts and in the Czech league for Zadina.

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

Another Ken Holland failure, Took the bust Zadina over Quinn Hughes.

[kipwinger 8,529]

19 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

You said it right here.

Everyone in the hockey world knew that D was the better fit for what Detroit needed. Holland thought he was getting one over on everyone. He should've been like the previous teams and drafted to "better fit a need." Defense. 

 

I think it's reasonable to criticize the Zadina draft but I don't think it's a given that we would have taken Hughes if not for Zadina. I'm not even sure it was obvious that Hughes was a better choice on draft day. Even if it was close I think it's hard to assume on draft day that a 5'11, 165 lb. defenseman is more likely to be a star player than the 6'0, 190 lbs scoring winger. If only because it's so much harder to be a good defenseman in general and especially at that size.

It was a miss, and a very costly one. You can (and should) make the argument that it was obvious that Zadina had issues on draft day. But it was NOT obvious that Quinn Hughes was going to be a star at the time. That's why most draft rankings had him outside the top five. If anyone really suspected he'd be this good he'd have been ranked in the top 3 easily.

I think it was reported after the fact that Holland had eyes for Bouchard, not Hughes, before Zadina fell down the board. 

Edited January 23 by kipwinger

[Motor City Mullets 201]

What I find amusing is how he was a short drive west on I-94...What did our scouts at the time didn't see in Hughes, but apparently saw in Zadina ?

Things wouldn't have been at all bad had Holland skipped Hughes and picked Bouchard...But it's all water under the bridge.

What I find more concerning is what the future holds for prospects named Cossa and Kasper...

Edited January 23 by Motor City Mullets

[kipwinger 8,529]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Mullets said:

What I find amusing is how he was a short drive west on I-94...What did our scouts at the time didn't see in Hughes, but apparently saw in Zadina ?

Things wouldn't have been at all bad had Holland skipped Hughes and picked Bouchard...But it's all water under the bridge.

It was exclusively tied to his size. Hughes was known for elite skating and offense, but there were questions about whether he'd be able to defend against NHL players. If you look at the top defensemen in that draft you can kinda see a pattern. Dahlin was ranked the highest because he had the offense, skating, AND size to defend. Bouchard was consistently ranked next highest because he had the offense and the size but not the skating. Hughes and Boqvist were interchageably ranked next because both had skating and offense but were not considered strong defenders.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:20 PM, Axl Foley said:

29 other GMs would have taken Zadina there over Hughes.

How many of those GMs are in the HOF?

Most GMs wouldn't have picked Seider at #6 either.  Holland just SUCKED at drafting.  

Edited January 23 by GMRwings1983

[LeftWinger 4,964]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

 

I think it's reasonable to criticize the Zadina draft but I don't think it's a given that we would have taken Hughes if not for Zadina. I'm not even sure it was obvious that Hughes was a better choice on draft day. Even if it was close I think it's hard to assume on draft day that a 5'11, 165 lb. defenseman is more likely to be a star player than the 6'0, 190 lbs scoring winger. If only because it's so much harder to be a good defenseman in general and especially at that size.

It was a miss, and a very costly one. You can (and should) make the argument that it was obvious that Zadina had issues on draft day. But it was NOT obvious that Quinn Hughes was going to be a star at the time. That's why most draft rankings had him outside the top five. If anyone really suspected he'd be this good he'd have been ranked in the top 3 easily.

I think it was reported after the fact that Holland had eyes for Bouchard, not Hughes, before Zadina fell down the board. 

Honestly, I do believe the talk was that the pick was going to be Bouchard. Hughes was just talked about a lot because of the Michigan connection of course and the fact that he had a relationship with Blashill already with Team USA.

[mackel 682]

14 hours ago, Troy McClure said:

You could tell 20 games into his first season in GR, this certainly wasn't a first round player, let alone top 5 caliber. Makes you wonder if Holland considered him out of reach, and never bothered to scout him...

BINGO!!!!!  WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

[Axl Foley 228]

22 hours ago, Troy McClure said:

Zadina apologists still exist lol

That would make me a Holland apologist actually.

4 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

How many of those GMs are in the HOF?

Most GMs wouldn't have picked Seider at #6 either.  Holland just SUCKED at drafting.  

Ken Holland. will be in the HOF.

[Axl Foley 228]

11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Here's a 2018 redraft sorted by points. The only one doing worse is Hayton in Arizona. But he had 43 points last season and has been injured all but 16 games this season. Zandina has never topped 25 points and Hayton only has 2 points less in 40 less games played. EVERY defenseman that was being talked about as a possibility is doing better, and has more points. Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, and even Boqvist. Zadina is by far, the biggest bust of the 2018 draft...Thanks Holland. 

Kotkaniemi at 3 was also a reach, and was based on need. 1 and 2 were obviously the 2 best players in the draft. Tkachuk at 4 was arguably equal value.