Doc Holliday

Fair enough and I see you point. But I don't think Parise and Suter make us favorites for the cup or anything. Do they give us a better chance? Sure. But who knows what would happen with the rest of our players. A lot of them have been showing signs of age and declining numbers wise. I think it will be very hard to convince two star players to potentially sign over the remainder of their careers to us when the future is so uncertain. I say uncertain because I think we all saw how old we looked in that series against Nashville this year. They beat us by winning races to pucks and being faster and quicker in general. I think age is definitely showing, and the prospect pool is less than exciting if you ask me. Smith is the closest thing we have to a sure thing and even he could slip to be only a middle/bottom pairing NHL defenseman. You can only preach the history of the organization for so long before top FA's are going to start asking questions about the future. Excuse me for being unpopular but if I was a top FA making possibly the most important decision of my life I'm going to want a little more than "don't worry, we've figured it out in the past, it'll all work out again somehow..."

First, I didn't say it would make them "favorites".  I said it would make them contenders.  There are 8 or 9 contenders but only a couple favorites.  Also, the future of the Red Wings isn't more uncertain than any team in the league.

The Pittsburgh Penguins with Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, and Letang?  Two first round exits in a row.
The Philadelphia Flyers with Giroux, Hartnell, JVR, etc.?  Two second round exits in a row and without their top defenseman for the remainder of his career.
The St. Louis Blues?  Nobody knows how they will bounce back from their amazing regular season run after such a weak playoff performance.
The San Jose Sharks? After signing Burns and Havlat while giving up Heatley and Seto, they were primed for a lengthy cup run, only to squeak in at 7th place and lose in 5 the first round.  Niemi has been brutal and that is a huge issue with the club, as well as some of their defensive elements.
The Vancouver Canucks? With Luongo out, how will Schneider deal with the impact?  How will their top players perform after such disappointing years?
The Boston Bruins? First round exit to a defensive Washington Capitals team with their top defenseman and goaltender getting older.
The New Jersey Devils?  Their top goaltender only has a year or two left in him, and their financial situation is uncertain.
The Nashville Predators? They may be seeing a lot of turnover with a team that put all their finances into a long playoff run only to see it fizzle out in the second round.  Radulov is likely gone, Suter may be gone, the K brothers may have issues with the team and Trotz, and this team once again showed they cannot make a deep run in the playoffs no matter the roster.
The New York Rangers?  I sincerely doubt they will be making a play for Parise based on the number of high priced offensive guys they have and their younger players who will need to get paid in the future.
The Chicago Blackhawks?  Kane is a cancer, Crawford isn't as good as envisioned, their defense has been atrocious, and they have been victim to two first round exits in a row.

Sure, the Wings have uncertainties, but so does every team in the league.

I mean the history is great but the only appeal it would have to me is that I'd be part of a storied organization. But if I'm looking for a place to call home for the next 7-8 years, I don't really give a rats ass about what happened 10 years ago when I was still in high school. I want to know that we're going to be strong competitors for all those years. Ideally, I'd sign with a team that can win a little bit now and only get better as time goes on by inserting prospects into the lineup and sprinkling in other FA's if need be. Ken Holland is going to have a tougher sell job than you think IMO.

Stop talking about history as if the discussion is about decades ago.  I'm talking about recent history.  And your specific wants and desires aren't that of Zach Parise or Ryan Suter.  Suter is looking for a team that can contend (which Nashville doesn't seem like they have shown that based on not being able to improve after their busy trade deadline acquisitions), and Parise is unsure of his future based on the finances of the Devils.

Few teams can boast about consistent recent success like the Red Wings can, and few can boast being able to pay these guys the money they deserve like the Red Wings can.  They are the 4th most valuable franchise in the league for a reason.

What do you mean winning? We haven't got out of the second round of the playoffs in 3 years. I mean sure we've won in the regular season but recently, we haven't done much in the playoffs.

How does it give us an advantage?

The Wings have proven more than anyone they have been able to bounce back after off seasons.

Before 97 they had plenty of early exits and playoff disappointments.  Before 2001 they had the same.  And before 2008 they had the same.

If Parise and Suter can understand how their impact would vault the Wings back to a Cup contender (which history has shown), they will definitely take a big look.

Here are the comparable (in terms of production) players and their salaries:
Zetterberg: actual salary next year 7.1 mil. cap hit 6.08 due to conrtact length gimmick that the league will not toleraate anymore, as they showed with Kovalchuk's contract.
D.Sedin 6.1 mil./ 6.1
E.Staal 8.5 / 8.25
Kovalchuk 11.0 / 6.67
Iginla 7.0 /7.0 that contract was signed waay back.
Sharp 6.0 / 5.9

All with cap hits less than 10 million.

Parise is younger than all of them, but Sharp, and to sign him long term would require an increase, at least 20%, over what those guys are making. So if we take a conservative route, average of all the above players, Parise's agent would ask for 10 and won't come down below 8.5.

Cap hit wise it won't go that high.  End of story.

Given that Parise is THE premiere forward UFA this season, I would expect that he will get closer to the asking price than the minimum one.

Depending on how much he wants to win.  And he is not the "premiere forward" in the league, he is just the top free agent.

The final number will be modified by playing with throwaway years on the contract and such, but with the league shown displeasure with such doings, I expect that the cap number will be close to the real salary.

Kovalchuk's deal was obvious.  Franzen's and Zetterberg's were not.

Now Suter.
His comparables: Weber 7.5/7.5 (1 yr and RFA only would command way more for the long-term UFA contract)
Hamhius 5.0 / 4.5
Letang 3.5 / 3.5 (signed as RFA, so UFA contract would be much higher)
Keith 8.0 / 5.5
Seabrook 7.0 / 5.8

Once again, none with a cap hit over 10 million.

So an average of these 5 +20% is 7.5 and Weber's and Letangs number are too low. So Suter's agent will start with 9.5 and come down to no less than 8.25. Again, Suter is THE best UFA defenseman this year, so he is likely to command closer to 9 mil. than 8. Again, I assume that the real salary does not get too different from the cap hit.

You are just making things up now.  His cap hit will not be nearly as high.

So, assuming a long term contract, Parise will cost 9-10 mil, and Suter 8.5-9. Together they will command 17.5-19 mil. If they decide that Detroit only needs to add the two of them to win the Cup next season, they may agree to a one year package deal at significantly less, but if you were in their shoes, which team would be the most likely to win next year with their addition? I doubt it's Detroit. And any GM in a league will do a lot to add those two. Including trading away major players if the cap limit demands it.

Suter will not accept a short-term contract, and a short term contract will likely be more expensive because there is less guaranteed money.

They will receive between 7 and 8 million assuming they both are looking for contending clubs.  Detroit will be one of those clubs.

I'm sorry but having a "tradition of winning" isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on when the season starts. Everyone is 0-0. It tradition was a factor as you are trying to present, then every top FA would want to sign with Montreal or Toronto. It's a nice thought but I don't see how history would convince a FA to sign or not sign in the present. It's about the here and now and then the future, IMO.

Neither the Canadiens or Maple Leafs have a history of winning in recent memory. I thought it was incredibly obvious what I was referring to.

And I also never said that tradition meant they would be "flocking" here.  I said it would give them an advantage over other teams.

Yes, a year. Comparables for a long term contract: Kovalchuk and Weber (who is on a short term arbitration award IIRC) 10+7.5(short term, lowball). With salaries expected to rise every year, a LT contracts of parise and Suter will at least 10% higher than the Kovy+Weber. That is 19+ mil.

That is crap.  Neither of them will be offered 10 million a year.  They are great players but they aren't at the same level as the Crosbys and Stamkos's of the league.

How about the Bruins? The Rangers? The Devils? The Kings? The Blues? The Preds? The Flyers even? Those all look like contenders to me.

Bruins don't have the cap space.  Rangers have enough high priced contracts as it is.  The Devils have crazy money troubles.  The Kings will likely not have the cap space in order to sign their players.  The Blues will have space but a lot of contracts to sign.  The Predators are a gigantic question mark considering they put all their eggs into one basket and failed miserably.  The Flyers have no cap space to sign anyone.

They may be "contenders", but the Red Wings have the best shot out of all of them.  You are getting too pessimistic about it.

Perhaps, but there's no way they will both accept such a discount, unless it's for one year only, like Selanne and Kariya once did. But put yourself in their shoes, is Detroit the best place for their one shot at a Cup together? Because at that price (14 mil for both) they can have their pick of ANY NHL team they want. And right now Detroit doesn't look like the team most poised to win the Cup next year.

And to sign them both long-term, the price tag will START at 20 mil.

20 mil what?  A year?

And 7 million isn't such a discount.  They are perhaps leaving a few million off the table to play together and for a team with a history of winning and a group of guys who know what it takes to win.  You don't get that from many other clubs.

Your last sentence asks the right question. That was my point. In order to sign in Detroit, they would EACH have to take less than other Cup-pursuing teams would offer them SEPARATELY. I don't see that happening. Do you really think that Parise will be making less than Kovalchuk? Or for much shorter term? More likely, he'll be making more.
Realistically, the only way to sign both would be if Lidstrom retires and a couple of other larger contracts (e.g. Bertuzzi) are gotten rid of and replaced with min.salary players. And then the Wings will be against the cap, and where will the future raises for the RFAs come from then?

Parise and Suter could both make 7 million with us still below the cap ceiling.

I call BS.  Sounds way too good to be true.

That entire overtime was insanity.

Doughty going bananas over an arguable call and an offsides.
Mike Smith losing his glove for a good 30 seconds of play.
Brown's knee on knee hit immediately after an offsides call.
Penner scoring the next shift.
Coyotes fans throwing trash after trash on the ice.
The Yotes digging into Brown during THE HANDSHAKE LINE.
Brown accepting the winning trophy in the opponent's barn after dealing a potentially illegal hit that resulted in a big injury.

Insanity.

What do you think guys?

Knee-on-knee?

It was knee on knee but he wasn't trying to compensate for him getting around him.  He was turning so that left knee was out regardless.  Plus he got significant shoulder contact in the hit.

Agreed.

Nothing against the Ilitch's, but that family has the $$$ to build it themselves...I'm sure city of Detroit has better ways to spend what little $$$ it has.

They don't.  They are doing all they can to get investors to put their own money into infrastructure so more people will come to the city, increase the profits of shops (so they won't fold after a year or two), increase the demand for jobs, increase the population, and increase the tax base.

The city helping put the Red Wings in an arena that is actually downtown and not tucked away in a corner surrounded by bridges and highways would do a lot for the city.

We didn't have to give up anybody for them and a lot of people criticized their acquisition for the same reasons but Hull and Robitaille put us over the top in 02 .  Iginla would put us over the top. We could roll 3 lines again and when they  put them together, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Iginla would be the best line  in the league and we would have the toughest player we have had in  years.

That right there is the entire point.  I am fine with signing skilled older players unless it deals with having to trade valuable younger assets of our own to acquire him.

The Flames are looking to get younger and rebuild at some point.  They are the constant of mediocrity even with guys like Iginla and Kiprusoff.  Detroit has the talent still but only have a few young guys who have the capability to get better and keep this team from becoming a Flames 2.0.  You move our young pieces for a couple years and you have a potentially larger chance for a cup, but you give up on trying to acquire younger free agents who have similar talent and essentially keep yourself from being able to reload again.

No to Iginla as an offseason acquisition.  Even if the Flames would be willing to trade him.

Covers are Voodoo more times than not....its a nice honor, but I am scared for him to win....That being said, Good Luck Megatron, Madden 2013 cover...

Stamkos scored 60 his cover year.

I'm sorry, if LGW's off-season plan to get even OLDER?

Iginla is a hell of a player, but I'm not trading huge assets to acquire him.  We need to reload for the future.  Not reload for one or two seasons.

you don't NEED high draft picks to improve

I didn't say you NEEDED high draft picks to improve.  But your scouting can only do so much and top players in free agency aren't guaranteed (not to mention you have to overpay each and every one of them).  And trades aren't a sure thing, either.  You have to have talent to receive talent and the longer your team goes without young, highly skilled players in the lineup (not prospects mind you) the harder it is to provide assets that can allow for decent trades.

All of the Staal brothers currently in the NHL are superior to Abdelkader in every possible way.

He was talking about Jarret Stoll.  None of the Staal brothers play for the Kings.