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What has Crosby achieved that Ovechkin hasn't? Conn Smythe? Olympic MVP? Playoff scoring leader? (goals, assists, or points) Olympic Goal is a team achievement, and yes Crosby scored the winning OT goal, but despite being the "face of the team" he was ultimately a supporting player at best, more likely an invisible offensive player who occasionally pitched in. Stanley Cup is a team achievement, and Crosby was ineffective in both Finals he played in. Malkin led the team to their Finals comeback and eventual win, and he led them to the Finals in both years. Fleury wasn't unstoppable, but he made the saves he needed to make at the right times. Crosby was maybe the seventh most important player in either Finals run yet gets credit for "his achievement" as a Cup winner. He was about as important to the Pens as Slava Kozlov was to the 97 and 98 Wings. Is Kozlov better than Ovechkin too? Marcel Dionne never won a Cup. Pat LaFontaine never won a Cup. Dino Ciccarelli never won a Cup. Curtis Joseph never won a Cup. Eric Lindros never won a Cup. Pavel Bure never won a Cup. Phil Housley never won a Cup. Cam Neely never won a Cup. Adam Oates never won a Cup. Who here is going to tell me that Cups are the single measure of success in a player's career? Or that Gold medals in any international competition is the same? Sorry, if you say so you are way off. Team sport, team accomplishment. Yes, some players mean more than others... but if a lot of the team plays poorly one or two players can only rarely overcome that. Especially against an opponent playing extremely well. Washington was not playing well, and Montreal was hitting on all cylinders. Pittsburgh could be put in the same boat, but Ovechkin was definitely much more effective than Crosby.

It's the media's fault that Crosby didn't notice or think of the handshake ritual that happens after every series ending game?? Every captain or star player is mobbed after the Cup winning game. Its not exactly a new phenomenon. And how exactly do you not notice 40 guys lining up at center ice?

LOL i started to see this girl walking around my house.....then i remembered i have a GF, Now that the Wings are out what do i talk about ? lol

It's not JUST about points either - Punching another guy in the junk from behind, taking all kinds of other cheapshots, not shaking hands and overall flopping around and acting like he's been shot with a shotgun over the smallest shots, just to return to the ice 2 shifts later... he portrays the game in a poor light and is a HORRIBLE role model for young players - THAT is not a face the league should market... hell, even though I can't stand him, how about Getzlaf? Even he plays the game with more honor - close to the same PPG, has a Stanley Cup, Olympic gold and is young as well... or even Bobby Ryan... my point is, there are plenty of others in the league that would represent the league better...

Ian Laperriere is a prime reason why Philadelphia blew right though New Jersey.Sacrifices the body at any cost.Hard hitting.Takes face offs.This guy is the real deal.A true team player.Does anyone have the video of the blocked s*** from last night?

The list of rookie d-men who were disappointing in their first season is as long as it is predictable. Ericsson will never be Lidstrom so it was absurd for anyone to think he`d step in as a rookie and dominate. In the NHL you expect first year defensemen to flub the puck-- it takes years for NHL d-men to gain the kind of poise we demand from our 3rd pairing in Detroit. People pretend it wasn`t like that for Kronwall, Fischer, or any of the other non sucky d-men we`ve seen emerge here since the golden years of Vladdy and Lidstrom but those are the facts. Hell, look at Hall Gill-- he blows donkey dicks but he`s massive and in the playoffs he`s managed to learn how to turn size without skill into shutting down Crosby. Ericsson may not have Gill`s size but at least he can skate well for a guy his size. In a few years when Ericsson`s got his game nailed down and is playing with confidence most of the people here will pretend they loved him from the start (just like we saw with Kronwall-- anyone remember the rage on here when he got his big contract? The board was pretty split on him back then). In the end I won`t be shocked when Ericsson`s game evens out and he`s a valuable member of the back end because this is what almost always happens with young d-men who come into the NHL.

Pretty much sums up your entire argument. I think one of my first points (which you stated was "irrelevant") was *if* Holland seriously wanted to hand out another long-term contract, he'd done so by re-signing Hossa for 12-years @ $5.3 million cap hit. The entire debate is pretty much irrelevant since we both agree Holland isn't going to sign Kovalchuk, nor is willing to offer anyone a long-term deal.

The f***? An 8th seed just upset two teams, a 1st place team and last year's cup champs, and there's no parity? The Sharks get amongst the top seeds again and actually win a series and there's no parity? Why is it when the Wings don't win, these hilarious topics concerning how bad the salary cap is, and how parity is failing, come up?

Word salad for the win.

pretty much a guarentee the cup is coming to the West .. and both teams ... actually all 4 team make me want to vomit in my mouth

And using a low-class player as the face of the league does not attract new fans... it just makes it look like more of a mickey mouse operation... I would easily argue that Crosby isn't even the best player on his own team, let alone the league and also, he averages more ice time than any other forward in the league not named Kovalchuk... you can argue this all day long, but he is NOT worthy of being the face of the league. period.

Go Habs/Bruins for the cup. And I want the Hawks to win the next round with a load of help from the refs so we can troll the Sharks forum.

Thank you, all of you, from the bottom of my heart for all the well wishes. I AM home from the hospital now recovering from a bout of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever -- yeah, I had the same reaction, too -- that left me laid up in Beaumont Hospital Royal Oak for over a week. Plenty of times I felt like a patient on House -- apparently cases of this illness are extremely rare (only 800 Americans get diagnosed with it a year) -- as I had at least a dozen different doctors and infectious disease specialists looking at me during my stay. It appears as though I fell victim to a tick bite sometime two weeks ago as I ventured back home and helped plant around 175 saplings in my parents' wooded area behind the house. About a week after that I started to get an intense fever and ultimately broke out in red spots everywhere (palms, arms, legs, feet -- everywhere). That and a fever hitting 102.9F freaked me out sufficienly enough to get me into the ER. There it seemed the primary worry was meningitis, so I went through the battery of tests for that (CT scan, xrays, standard blood/urine tests) -- even the dreaded lumbar puncture. Yes, they are horrible. I didn't have the stiffness in the neck or other classic meningitis symptoms, which left a lot of people stumped. After I was admitted my fever continued to rise, spiking at around 104.5F sometime mid-last week. I was on a cooling blanket for a large portion of that time while I was fed a steady supply of antibiotics. Basically, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever had come into focus because all of the tests I'd undergone basically ruled everything out. I started turning the corner over the weekend (the biggest hurdle was managing my own temperature without the assistance of the cooling blanket) and after a few days of that (and some improving lab results) I was discharged around noon on Tuesday. Naturally this whole thing has left me embarassingly weak. For the first four days of the illness I was unable to sleep and had to be put on pain and sleep meds just so my body could get some semblence of rest. I'm going to spend the next few days trying to ramp my strength back up and hopefully things will return to normal. I do have to say that I'm thankful I didn't decide to Wikipedia this illness while I was still admitted. I really didn't have any idea how serious this whole thing was (or could've been), but the bevvy of "Jesus, Matt, you really scared the crap out of us" comments I've heard now that I've been home have really shed some light on this whole thing. Of course, it was painful watcing the the Wings' ultimate playoff demise while laid up in a hospital, but I did give some of the nurses a good laugh with my constaint pained "yyyesssss!" and totally weak fistpumps during the first period of Game 4. They all thought I was in pain but I had to grimace out a "nooo... I'm happ-pppy!" Again -- thank you to ALL OF YOU -- for your patience and well wishes. I'll be back to 100% shortly!

What are you talking about? On the day of his induction, he'll be wearing a suit...actually, he'll be wearing a HHOF sports coat. This isn't baseball. Also, he's won 1 Norris with Montreal and 2 with Chicago and he's played the most games with Chicago. For whatever reason, I remember him most from his days with Montreal...probably because when I was younger, I lived in Nova Scotia and HNIC was always Montreal games.

Brendan Smith finds your lack of faith disturbing.

Fischer wasn't exactly good his first few years either

Then I don't know how you determine the types, because for example Finland plays more Canadian type hockey than USA.

Please tell me where I said that size did not matter, as I tried to make a point that I was only regarding offensive instincts. I was simply implying that while most of those players are better than him, I really wouldn't say they were that too much more talented. As for Perry, I'd love to see what Huds would put up with Perry's minutes and on a line with Getzlaf(plus the size differential would be hilarious). He outscored Perry by a fair margin in his last season here in terms of points per minute. This is not a debatable or subjective matter. I obviously think Perry is a better player, but I would not say he was miles ahead of him. And no, Hudler is not below average defensively. He is slow, which makes him mere average, and he would and will never be a PK player, but he is in no way a liability out there.

This won't be popular, but I'd love to see Holland give Georges Laraque a call and say "Hey Georges - you want one last shot at the NHL? Are you willing to shut your stupid mouth and play exactly the syle of hockey Babs tells you to play without complaint - if he says "go get him" you tear some MFer's head off and if he says "play hockey" you screen the net like nobody's business and hit everything that moves as hard as you can (within the rules, natch) without regard to who they are or how sorry you feel for them - because if you're willing to swallow your stupid-ass pride and start doing a job instead of doing whatever you feel like, I have a 4th line LW spot with your name on it".

There you go. That's exactly how I feel. The last two years the wings haven't been able to do anything at the deadline due to being up against the cap.

There ya go Ritola~Jagr~Hudler ahahaha...sweet

Mature. Also really mature. Nothing is funnier then 3 year old internet memes.

Even if those guys do have less offensive instinct then Hudler (which I tihnk youre wrong about most) they have other things that are needed in hockey. Umm SIZE, and skating ability. Not to mention that most of those guys, if not all are stronger defensively. I know youre not really saying Hudler is better, but really Hudler isn't anywhere near most of those guys. And Perry has awful skating ability but still has put up more points then Hudler. Offensive instinct and hockey sense aren,t all that matters in hockey. And no Huds is for sure below average defensively

Here's more examples. Not even including the ones this year.