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Its so hard to asses Wright because at the end of the day these picks ultimately fell on Holland. Wrights job is to provide Holland with all the info he has, but its entirely possible Wright wanted someone else in 2015, and Holland took Svech instead, just as its possible Wright wanted someone else in 2014, and Holland took Larkin instead. Who knows.

I truly dont believe that NHL players look at this roster as negatively as some fans do. Anytime you watch an unbiased analyst talk about the Wings, they always praise the young core this team has, and reference them as a team on the rise. Lets take Trouba for example, if he hits UFA and you are willing to pay the guy, I have zero doubt that he would be willing to come here.

I'm just here to fetch my @Buppy sad reaction.

True. But most of these guys had chances with other teams and couldn't hack it. Conversely, Samuelsson, Lilja, and Cleary came here as castaways from other teams and resurrected their careers here under Babcock. Until playoff time rolled around. zZING!!!!

WINGS https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings FREE AGENTS https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2020/ufa/ https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2020/rfa/ --- What do?

I think Jacob Markstrom is a solid goalie. He has put decent numbers on a weak VAN team. Should be even better this year. I am not sold on Lehner outside of a Barry Trotz system. Should be a cheaper than Lehner. Krug would be nice, great offensive mind on the back-end that we just don't have. I think you need at least one guy like that. Knowing some BOS fans over the years, they seem to have a love-hate relationship with him. Because of his defensive laps. But hes a PP beast and a performs in the playoffs. If we just don't resign some dead weight or trade it and signed Markstrom, I think I would be happy with that off-season.

I assume next year Yzerman will be in rebuild the D mode. We have almost no UFA forwards, and my guess is Howard will be back again on a cheaper contract depending on the year. Defense will have: Hronek, Cholowski, Dekeyser, Nemeth, Bowey Possibly also: Green, Kaski, another emerging prospect like Seider or Lindstrom If Green is gone then we basically only have Hronek, Cholo, and DK as top 4 capable Dmen . And DK barely makes that list and Cholo is still super unproven. I see real need to add one or two steady Dmen. The two obvious big names that would be cool to add would be Trouba and Krug. Other than that I have no idea who will actually become available; it's too early. Krug - Trouba Cholowski - Hronek Dekeyser - Bowey/Nemeth/Kaski/Seider/Lindstrom

Realistically who’s going to want to come here in 2020 with the way this team currently is at ?ill be happy at this point if we finally trade green for high picks and never see him again if we get anyone I hope it’ll be for 1-2 year deals with where we are I know some people want Krug but I wouldn’t want him for 7 years

No Ericsson, Daley, Green is going to be a good thing anyway you look at it. There aren't a lot of "quality" UFA out there. Could this be another year to where we are going to rely heavily on our development and progress of the yoots over high end UFA signings? The obvious is a top D of of course. Lets say neither re-sign in New York or Boston, who do you focus on, Trouba or Krug? I am not saying that Yzerman is even going to go after them, he may be very satisfied with Hronek, Cholowski, Seider as his top guys moving forward. At forward, the top guys are going to cost a ton, RNH, Galchenyuk, etc... G is very dull, Lehner is the "big" name, but that means he will probably get too much money. I don't like Howard, but just give him another 1 year deal and focus on our farm. Also, we would have to make some big strides forward in order to become attractive to top UFA's, and that would mean missing out on a possible top 10 pick (maybe #1.)

No.

Yeah, okay. Good talk.

That’s all I’m saying. Though I disagree with the part of the impact being very minimal. Anyway, my point was that drafting wasn’t our only problem back then. For a long period of time we didn’t get to see almost any of our prospects reaching their projected ceilings or even floors.

GDI, you see what you did? Are you happy now? Proud of yourself? We had this idiocy dragon slain years ago, now you just saunter in and resurrect it like it's nothing. I doubt any of us will survive now. You're an agent of chaos, and I hope your ancestors are weeping in the hereafter.

Watch in horror as all the marqee UFAs re-sign with their respective teams and "Summer of Stevie" slowly descends into "Summer of Cirrhosis" ?

C’mon, it’s pretty evident that he like his players a certain way. It’s defense first. And second. I’m not saying he ruined any of those players careers but playing for Babs is a tough deal and I do believe one or two of them could have reach a higher ceiling playing for, let’s say, Boudreau. The rumblings about Babcocks preferences and player usage started a long time in Toronto too.

There's also absolutely nothing to suggest that anything like this didn't happen, or couldn't have happened. It's an opinion. One you disagree with. That doesn't make it wrong... If you believe that every decision ever made my management and coaching was in the best interest of player development, and no player has ever had their development stunted due to poor management or coaching, cool... I know a lot of people would disagree though, including me.

Look, i was with some primo ****** and didnt want my buzz totally wrecked. So i said "Fghk it, lets roll."

Do you concede?

Fans are often wrong. I put very little merit in "fans disagreed with X" What's the point, IS my point. Saying Red Wings ruined player X is dumb because you can't prove a smidget of that assumption. Interesting that you chose to say it in response to me. Then why consistently bring this conspiracy theory up? As Buppy pointed out this should be put to rest. It's been nothing but fan theory since day one. You and I could've been NHLers under different circumstances too. I don't blame my peewee coach or the team I was on for that though.

What does this have to do with anything? Nah. It's already been discussed countless times and can't be proven right or wrong. So what's the point? Not exaggerating anything. Never even said anything about you specifically. Exactly my point. There's no way to determine whether or not these players would have been better or worse off under different circumstances. So what's the point in discussing it? I agree that neither would have likely been anything special. I do think that either or both Jurco and Sproul could have been regular NHLers under different circumstances though. You disagree, and that's fine.

Because not being able to prove something doesn't exist isn't evidence that it does exist. That's the definition. Appeal to ignorance. A lot of fans felt Moritz Seider at #6 was never gonna happen too... Go ahead, lay out which prospects were mismanaged and evidence of it. I'm happy to hear it. Now you're exaggerating my POV. A straw-man fallacy. I certainly do not blindly trust coaches and managers or think they are incapable of mistakes, as demonstrated in my initial response I've highlighted here. I do however trust their opinions much more than yours or mine. Here's the thing. Jurco and Sproul also could have been drafted by a different team and developed worse in those systems than they did in ours. We'll never know for sure though, so whatever. Both players have tried with multiple organizations now and failed. If you wanna blame the Red Wings and Babcock or whomever for their failings in NY, CHI, or any other organization, more power to ya, I think its silly though. We tried our best with them and it didn't work out. They didn't become Dylan Stromes elsewhere though so I'd lean on the fact that they're just not anything special.

How is it a non-existent fallacy? It's something we seen... It's nothing like unicorns or whatever you're talking about... We seen how some of our top prospects at the time were being utilized. A lot of fans felt they were being mismanaged. Other fans think because these coaches and managers are pros they can't make mistakes. I think it's foolish to blindly trust everything these guys do. I'm not saying Jurco or Sproul or whoever else would have been elite if it weren't for the way they were managed early on in Detroit, but I do think it's possible that they could have been regular NHLers, if a few things were handled differently. We'll never know for sure though, so whatever.

Projected ceiling and floor? Projected by whom? Corey Pronman? Other fans on the internet? The overwhelming majority of prospects never make the NHL. Most will never live up to their "projection". I don't blame any team for that. Each team is trying to give its prospects every chance to succeed. That's the goal of development. Players don't suddenly forget how to score and wash out because a coach has a certain defensive system. I think that's ludicrous. Look at Babcock with Kadri. Turned him into a defensively dominant player, and yet he's still a 45 to 65 pt center. Look at Tyler Ennis under Boudreau and Babcock. Ennis faired better offensively in Babcocks system. There's absolutely nothing to substantiate that the Red Wings or Babcock "ruined" anyone. Everyone claimed for years Babs was holding Jurco back. Whoopdeedoo, the Blackhawks failed to turn him into a Dylan Strome story after us and now he's still a career minor league with a 3rd organization. Did we really ruin him, or did he just not live up to the youtube hype? At the end of the day these players have to grow and adapt into NHL players and earn a role. The team affords them tools and opportunities to do this. Failing to make the team or even get signed after the draft is mostly on the player.

But this is an appeal to ignorance fallacy, or proving non-existence fallacy. If I said unicorns are real because you can't prove they're not, you'd call me an idiot, and you'd be right. Or more on topic, If I said I think Kronwall is better suited for forward... just because you can't categorically prove he's not is not evidence that supports my claim. Basically, it's unsubstantiated rumor. So if your opinion is: Babs ruined player X, and your evidence of that is: You can't prove he didn't, It's pretty clear that's a very weak opinion to stand on. Of course no player is ever handled 100% perfectly by a team, but I think it's pretty weak to say a team ruined a player just because he didn't live up to your personal perceived cieling of said player. Meh, basically what you're saying is different coaches have different styles and strategies. That's true and different players should in theory play differently in a different system. But I think that impact is very minimal. You can play NHL hockey or you can't. I don't think a different system would have suddenly made these players into NHL caliber players.

I dont know about that, when kids are developing its so important to instill good habits. I see what you are saying, but if you wait too long the player sometimes gets stuck in their ways and is a lost cause. Look at Alexei Kovalev for example, imagine the type of player he could have been if a coach pushed him harder at the beginning like what Blashill is doing with AA. I have heard so many players say he was one of the most talented guys ever, but he never lived up to that because of his work ethic Anyone remember this gem lol .