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Larkin isn't an elite 2nd center by that definition. BUT @krsmith17 has assured me Larkin is a definite 1C. Oh my who to believe.

Malkin is an elite 2C. Draisaitl is an elite 2C. Tavares is an elite 2C. If you think Veleno has that ceiling that's on you (he doesn't). Or maybe you shouldn't throw words like "elite" around and then expect people not to take you at face value when you make outrageous claims.

What's your point? I already responded to that in the other thread... I think Veleno's absolute floor is 3C, ultimate ceiling is elite 2C, but likely ends up somewhere in between. Reliable two-way 2C. Maybe he'll never carry a line, but put two high end / elite wingers on his line, like Zadina and Raymond, and he won't look at all out of place. He's an elite skater, with high end vision and good puck skills. If he can figure out the defensive side of the game (I think he will), he'll be a legit threat all over the ice.

Can't imagine where I got the idea that you think Veleno will be a dominant 2C?

Weren't you the one who was just asking for an adult opinion?

You at least hovered.

Tampa need to move players. Detroit doesn't need to add any players. Yes, Yzerman is in the driver's seat... BriseBois doesn't have to make a trade with Yzerman, but if he wants to sign his RFA's, he does have to make some trades. Detroit are one of the few trade partners these teams trying to shed cap space have. If BriseBois doesn't like Yzerman's ask, cool. Move on to the next team.

So Sam Stange has 3 goals in 6 games for Wisconsin.

Not really.

You're at the end of your career, Abby. Write books and raise your child. You had a good run.